It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
I would never be out in my yard mowing the lawn on a Saturday.
I suppose you are kind of the same way, there are things you don't allow in your home.
Jesus did not "clearly" say that.
you believe God conveniently tweaked the laws for christians, by doing away entirely with the law. (though Jesus clearly said the law was to remain.)
"Until all is fulfilled", which of course has already happened now, we have the church, which is the fulfillment.
no Jesus did not do away with a portion of the law.he clearly said not one dot would go away and that the entire law would remain.
jesus did call out the pharisees on their ocd-ish law keeping and brought to light their shortcomings in their attitude towards keeping the law. He DID say that not one dot of the law would disappear but the whole thing would remain till heaven and earth pass away.
originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: sk0rpi0nJesus did not "clearly" say that.
you believe God conveniently tweaked the laws for christians, by doing away entirely with the law. (though Jesus clearly said the law was to remain.)
What Jesus was doing was pointing out how the Pharisees were content to belong to a "holy" people based on their having been given the Law, but not actually living according to the spirit of the Law.
It seems to have been spoken as a general principle, only using the one instance as an opportunity to bring up the discussion.
. . . his disciples sat around munching bacon when the speech was made as if it 'proves' that Jesus permitted pork.
He didn't. Insted he recognized the authority of the teachers of law because they occupied moses seat and instructted people to do as they say.
originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: sk0rpi0n"Until all i fulfilled", which of course has already happened now, we have the church, which is the fulfillment.
no Jesus did not do away with a portion of the law.he clearly said not one dot would go away and that the entire law would remain.
Meanwhile, Jesus on the ground, while he yet lived as an otherwise normal man, could use the Law at will to criticize all the self-appointed "teachers of the Law".
You added the "the whole thing would remain" part.
He DID say that not one dot of the law would disappear but the whole thing would remain till heaven and earth pass away.
He didn't criticize the Pharisees?
He didn't. Insted he recognized the authority of the teachers of law because they occupied moses seat and instructted people to do as they say.
it couldn't have been a ''general principle'' as nobody in that crowd even enterttained the idea of consuming pork. The speech in mark 7 followed the incident of pharisees finding fault with people eating mere BREAD with unwashed hands. The issue of pork was not even raised. It in no way means Jesus allowed the eating of pork as christians have assumed.
originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: sk0rpi0nIt seems to have been spoken as a general principle, only using the one instance as an opportunity to bring up the discussion.
. . . his disciples sat around munching bacon when the speech was made as if it 'proves' that Jesus permitted pork.
it couldn't have been a ''general principle'' as nobody in that crowd even enterttained the idea of consuming pork. The speech in mark 7 followed the incident of pharisees finding fault with people eating mere BREAD with unwashed hands. The issue of pork was not even raised. It in no way means Jesus allowed the eating of pork as christians have assumed.
originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: sk0rpi0nIt seems to have been spoken as a general principle, only using the one instance as an opportunity to bring up the discussion.
. . . his disciples sat around munching bacon when the speech was made as if it 'proves' that Jesus permitted pork.
he criticized pharisees but he also told his people to do as they say. So if you were present around jesus then you would have to do as the pharisees said. He didn demote moses, he promoted the pharisees...as strange as it sounds.
originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: sk0rpi0nHe didn't criticize the Pharisees?
He didn't. Insted he recognized the authority of the teachers of law because they occupied moses seat and instructted people to do as they say.
Hmm, I think you should reread the gospels.
Saying that the Pharisees sat in the seat of Moses was actually demoting Moses to what he really was, basically a Pharisee.
"The Pharisees and some of the teachers of the law who had come from Jerusalem gathered around Jesus "
it couldn't have been a ''general principle'' as nobody in that crowd even enterttained the idea of consuming pork.
so explain why jesus asked his followers to do as tthe pharisees said? This means they had to abstain from pork because the pharisees would not allow it....and they would have to stone criminals because the pharisees loved that practice. Or would you have argued with Jesus when he said ''do as they say'''
originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: sk0rpi0n"you say tomato, I say tomahto".
He didn demote moses, he promoted the pharisees...as strange as it sounds.
There is an undeniable leveling.
he said do as they SAY ....not as they DO. It remains that christians are to DO as those in moses' seat say. Dont do as they do.
originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: sk0rpi0n
Jesus said :
The Pharisees and the teachers of the Law are experts in the Law of Moses. So obey everything they teach you, but don’t do as they do. After all, they say one thing and do something else.
originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: WarminIndyI would never be out in my yard mowing the lawn on a Saturday.
I suppose you are kind of the same way, there are things you don't allow in your home.
Being a Christian rather than an orthodox Jew, I would (and do sometimes) take off on my bicycle from my house for a joy ride on a Saturday, since "the Sabbath was made for man" as Jesus said.
Don't you think that he was being sarcastic, considering the next line?
so explain why jesus asked his followers to do as tthe pharisees said? This means they had to abstain from pork because the pharisees would not allow it....and they would have to stone criminals because the pharisees loved that practice. Or would you have argued with Jesus when he said ''do as they say'''
There was a cultural tradition that the elders of the town would sit around the public area such as just inside the city gate, and someone with a dispute could go to them and allow them to judge.
Jesus said :
The Pharisees and the teachers of the Law are experts in the Law of Moses. So obey everything they teach you, but don’t do as they do. After all, they say one thing and do something else.