The bible is the bait and hook the "devil" uses to get you.

originally posted by: DarknStormy

originally posted by: lupodigubbio

But a lot of people also believe Christianity is in fact the "Antichrist", you know, in the place of Christ...representing him. the most popular religion of all time. So who is the bible really talking about here? who's misleading who?
Ar you sure you're on the "right" side?

Christianity is not the Antichrist but many people who say they are Christians could be Antichrist.. The Bible clearly shows the reader what to look out for when delving into that subject and by those teachings it is easy to understand who an Antichrist is. If there was one organisation in the world today that could be "in place of Christ" who would you first think about?

Which organisation has the power to influence the masses of Christians whilst also teaching them a religion that contradicts the very teachings of the religion they apparently stand for? If the hierarchy of Christianity is corrupt, then I would expect the entire religion to be corrupt through them. So is it Christianity that is the Antichrist or the people who control the spirituality of roughly 1 Billion people?

Those who control the beast have the same fate as their followers though. The lake of fire according to the book of revelations. You can't really say, "the devil made me do it" and get away with it. So, if my belief system spawned from the edited book of this Antichristian organization then...what does that make me? A follower of Christ or a follower of the beast that controls the religion(s) that claims to be of Christ?

And based on the concept of the narrow gate...shouldn't Christians be an extremely small minority?

a reply to: adjensen

Right but vapid when compared to what other school of thought? What is your favorite label?

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
I've pointed this out to Christians before and they tend to not like to hear this line of reasoning. In their defense, it is hard to get an unbiased view of things you are invested in. Though one should recognize that this is the case and try to seek out opinions from outside your bubble to get an idea of what you may be missing, this is where Christians tend to fail.

This is a bunch of BS and sounds real good to folks with zero investment if you get the drift. At any estimation this is not an unbiased view. That's really all I am saying. This is where invested bible debunkers tend to fail. They sop up anything that even looks like a contrary view and call it unbiased. If fact I shouldn't even call them unbelievers but ax grinding mish mashers, hacks, cognitive dissidents and pissers.

Whoa there buddy, I never said that it was true. Personally, I don't think any of the Bible is true as written, regardless of who is the adversary and who is god. I'm just trying to say that it is an alternate perspective to the view that is proclaimed by Christians and is worth considering. It makes some valid points based on actions that GOD himself did in the bible. That's all. You sound like one of the Christians that I was talking about who cannot seek outside opinions from your bubble.

originally posted by: lupodigubbio

Those who control the beast have the same fate as their followers though. The lake of fire according to the book of revelations. You can't really say, "the devil made me do it" and get away with it. So, if my belief system spawned from the edited book of this Antichristian organization then...what does that make me? A follower of Christ or a follower of the beast that controls the religion(s) that claims to be of Christ?

Expose the Beast and seek the true meaning of Christianity. The Bible says "you are the temple of God and his spirit dwells within you". So to me this would suggest that Church is a waste of time because everything you need to learn can only come from you and your conscience if you allow it.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
I've pointed this out to Christians before and they tend to not like to hear this line of reasoning. In their defense, it is hard to get an unbiased view of things you are invested in. Though one should recognize that this is the case and try to seek out opinions from outside your bubble to get an idea of what you may be missing, this is where Christians tend to fail.

This is a bunch of BS and sounds real good to folks with zero investment if you get the drift. At any estimation this is not an unbiased view. That's really all I am saying. This is where invested bible debunkers tend to fail. They sop up anything that even looks like a contrary view and call it unbiased. If fact I shouldn't even call them unbelievers but ax grinding mish mashers, hacks, cognitive dissidents and pissers.

Whoa there buddy, I never said that it was true. Personally, I don't think any of the Bible is true as written, regardless of who is the adversary and who is god. I'm just trying to say that it is an alternate perspective to the view that is proclaimed by Christians and is worth considering. It makes some valid points based on actions that GOD himself did in the bible. That's all. You sound like one of the Christians that I was talking about who cannot seek outside opinions from your bubble.

Well yea I expected you to say that.

The bubble here you speak of is one that simply occurs by isolation of certain areas of the bible. The points or some of them at issue are derived from that. It doesn't blow my mind that some folks would extrapolate that God would, can and does operate in a fashion that doesn't mesh with traditional views held by many Christians. I mean take your pick. God showing up to Job at the end of his testing's in the form of a whirlwind...when one just destroyed his home and children. The untrained and quick to pounce mind will conclude that God must be satan or as many christians do don't pay any attention to the glaring problem here. I suffer from neither conundrum.

a reply to: adjensen

If your "god" allowed Satan to impersonate him and hijack his message, he's not much of a god.

So I assume you believe Mohammad was a true prophet of god and spoke for god when he said Jesus was not the messiah and convinced billions of followers to believe just that?

1 John 2
22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son.

If you don't believe Mohommad spoke for god then your god allowed Satan to hijack his message and impersonate him. He's not much of a god if he let that happen right?

originally posted by: lupodigubbio

originally posted by: DarknStormy

originally posted by: lupodigubbio

But a lot of people also believe Christianity is in fact the "Antichrist", you know, in the place of Christ...representing him. the most popular religion of all time. So who is the bible really talking about here? who's misleading who?
Ar you sure you're on the "right" side?

Christianity is not the Antichrist but many people who say they are Christians could be Antichrist.. The Bible clearly shows the reader what to look out for when delving into that subject and by those teachings it is easy to understand who an Antichrist is. If there was one organisation in the world today that could be "in place of Christ" who would you first think about?

Which organisation has the power to influence the masses of Christians whilst also teaching them a religion that contradicts the very teachings of the religion they apparently stand for? If the hierarchy of Christianity is corrupt, then I would expect the entire religion to be corrupt through them. So is it Christianity that is the Antichrist or the people who control the spirituality of roughly 1 Billion people?

Those who control the beast have the same fate as their followers though. The lake of fire according to the book of revelations. You can't really say, "the devil made me do it" and get away with it. So, if my belief system spawned from the edited book of this Antichristian organization then...what does that make me? A follower of Christ or a follower of the beast that controls the religion(s) that claims to be of Christ?

And based on the concept of the narrow gate...shouldn't Christians be an extremely small minority?

Well now. Christians might very well be the smallest minority if anyone would leave off, when figuring pie charts, with categorizing christians as those who say they are or hold that they are because they participate in christian ritual. Yes indeed. The book itself holds that many so called christians are not. So whats new here? These interesting features of christianity are often over looked and hard to understand by those living in bubbles on both sides of this debate.

a reply to: Logarock

The Bible is The Bubble.
And vice versa.

That is all.

well that was a waste of a minute or two reading


until i noticed the pie chart labelled atheists as a religion

I agree with that bit, but as mentioned

This is all the same theology as what has gone on in the past, it never stuck then and I cant see anyone taking it seriously or adhering to its belief today

A lot of your assumptions and interpretation of the teachings of the bible are, well, not to be rude, but, childish.

I think if you want to critique something you need to understand it first, you dont and that reflects poorly

a reply to: Logarock


Agreed 100% and you are proving the point of this thread with your valid statement. The devil has successfully convinced most of humanity that he is God. He is deep in the heart of true Christianity because he adorned it with falsehood and false faith. Christ is not a Christian, is not looking for adoration, praise, worship or servitude, but to serve. Any Christian who focuses on written words and ignores the one law has fallen right into the trap.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: adjensen

So I assume you believe Mohammad was a true prophet of god and spoke for god when he said Jesus was not the messiah and convinced billions of followers to believe just that?

Firstly, Mohammad doesn't deny that Jesus was and is the Messiah, Islam is waiting for Jesus to return also. Mohammad was merely a well respected messenger or prophet of Islam and his teaching could of been the result of the Roman Empires corrupt version of Christianity, we really don't know but it most certainly is a possibility also.

a reply to: lupodigubbio

You don't need a book to tell you the truth. Your Heart, via Jesus, via the Holy Spirit will tell you the truth.

And consider in YOUR DAILY ACTIONS if you Practice in the Light or in the Dark:

www.biblegateway.com...

And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.

For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.

But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

John 3,19-21.

And I'm not imposing anything to you. It's only mine obligation to share the Truth, because I was lost, I was dead, and now I live!

I gave you a flag as I found it interesting enough and I like the images used here. So what's the narrowest "gate" on that chart? "Other religionists"? I guess that's what I am. I try to be a follower of Christ not because he's God and so I had damn well better, but because I agreed with his words. His philosophy. The way he interprets things. His views of the poor vs the rich. His reaction to money changing etc in the temple. As far as the whole religious aspect, I get a little confused. Is he god? Is the bible all true? Does it contain human error? What bible did Jesus use? What disciplines had he studied under? Is/was he Jewish? Should we be Jewish? What would be the difference between the Jewish religion as we know it today, and another one else that existed alongside it but that accepted Christ as the Messiah? Surely it would not resemble Christianity as we know it today? Since I don't know the answer to these, I just live my life as best I can and honestly it seems "built in" so I do not need to constantly consult a bible in order to know what's right 99.99 percent of the time.

originally posted by: lupodigubbio
a reply to: adjensen

Right but vapid when compared to what other school of thought? What is your favorite label?

Ok then lets not call it vapid. Lets just say then that much of Gnostic theology is in direct contradiction to Jesus and what His dispels taught. In short from the very beginning, from an intellectual standpoint even, the Gnostic fathers were opposed to, and visa versa, the teachings of Jesus and Paul. What was not in opposition directly were meaningless extrapolations and philosophizing.

Another problem with what is call gnostic is that the lose body known as such, contains anything that is extra biblical in nature when in truth it has nothing to do with what the dispels taught or even Marcionism for example.

a reply to: DarknStormy

I love the double standard here, Islam could have been a construct of Rome 200 years after Rome fell but Christianity isn't even though Rome is the one who killed Jesus and persecuted his earliest followers.

Christianity was created in the heart of the Roman Empire when it was at its strongest, Islam was created 200 years after Rome dissolved in the 5th century.

originally posted by: lupodigubbio
a reply to: Logarock


Agreed 100% and you are proving the point of this thread with your valid statement. The devil has successfully convinced most of humanity that he is God. He is deep in the heart of true Christianity because he adorned it with falsehood and false faith. Christ is not a Christian, is not looking for adoration, praise, worship or servitude, but to serve. Any Christian who focuses on written words and ignores the one law has fallen right into the trap.

You might agree with me to a point but certainly not 100% as you claim. And I am in no way supporting what you have said here.

Parenthetically the greatest praise, adoration and worship goes to those that serve. The above also demonstrates a woefully inadequate, to debate the issue, understanding of Christ to come to some of your conclusions. I am not surprised that you feel reading the bible would do little for understanding it better or Christ better as it is clear you may have never actually studied the book even out of an intellectual curiosity.

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
I've pointed this out to Christians before and they tend to not like to hear this line of reasoning. In their defense, it is hard to get an unbiased view of things you are invested in. Though one should recognize that this is the case and try to seek out opinions from outside your bubble to get an idea of what you may be missing, this is where Christians tend to fail.

This is a bunch of BS and sounds real good to folks with zero investment if you get the drift. At any estimation this is not an unbiased view. That's really all I am saying. This is where invested bible debunkers tend to fail. They sop up anything that even looks like a contrary view and call it unbiased. If fact I shouldn't even call them unbelievers but ax grinding mish mashers, hacks, cognitive dissidents and pissers.

Whoa there buddy, I never said that it was true. Personally, I don't think any of the Bible is true as written, regardless of who is the adversary and who is god. I'm just trying to say that it is an alternate perspective to the view that is proclaimed by Christians and is worth considering. It makes some valid points based on actions that GOD himself did in the bible. That's all. You sound like one of the Christians that I was talking about who cannot seek outside opinions from your bubble.

Well yea I expected you to say that.

The bubble here you speak of is one that simply occurs by isolation of certain areas of the bible. The points or some of them at issue are derived from that. It doesn't blow my mind that some folks would extrapolate that God would, can and does operate in a fashion that doesn't mesh with traditional views held by many Christians. I mean take your pick. God showing up to Job at the end of his testing's in the form of a whirlwind...when one just destroyed his home and children. The untrained and quick to pounce mind will conclude that God must be satan or as many christians do don't pay any attention to the glaring problem here. I suffer from neither conundrum.

Are you sure that your opinion isn't formed through preconceived notions from what other people have been telling you? Which came first, a pastor or parents telling you what to believe or you read the bible? If for instance, you were unexposed to Christianity, picked up the bible and formed these opinions based on the text without ANY outside influence guiding your decision making process, then maybe I can agree with you. But I'm willing to bet you were introduced to Christianity and its beliefs first THEN read the bible and interpreted accordingly.

You say that an untrained person would be quick to pounce and make these conclusions, but how about explaining why someone needs to be "trained" to read the bible to begin with. If the bible is truly the inspired word of god, it should be accessible to all levels of intellect, not just the intelligent or studied. I should be able to glance through the text and receive the same message as someone who has studied it for years.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Logarock

The Bible is The Bubble.
And vice versa.

That is all.

I know how you feel. I have often resorted to such an intellectual cop out when I don't understand something.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
I've pointed this out to Christians before and they tend to not like to hear this line of reasoning. In their defense, it is hard to get an unbiased view of things you are invested in. Though one should recognize that this is the case and try to seek out opinions from outside your bubble to get an idea of what you may be missing, this is where Christians tend to fail.

This is a bunch of BS and sounds real good to folks with zero investment if you get the drift. At any estimation this is not an unbiased view. That's really all I am saying. This is where invested bible debunkers tend to fail. They sop up anything that even looks like a contrary view and call it unbiased. If fact I shouldn't even call them unbelievers but ax grinding mish mashers, hacks, cognitive dissidents and pissers.

Whoa there buddy, I never said that it was true. Personally, I don't think any of the Bible is true as written, regardless of who is the adversary and who is god. I'm just trying to say that it is an alternate perspective to the view that is proclaimed by Christians and is worth considering. It makes some valid points based on actions that GOD himself did in the bible. That's all. You sound like one of the Christians that I was talking about who cannot seek outside opinions from your bubble.

Well yea I expected you to say that.

The bubble here you speak of is one that simply occurs by isolation of certain areas of the bible. The points or some of them at issue are derived from that. It doesn't blow my mind that some folks would extrapolate that God would, can and does operate in a fashion that doesn't mesh with traditional views held by many Christians. I mean take your pick. God showing up to Job at the end of his testing's in the form of a whirlwind...when one just destroyed his home and children. The untrained and quick to pounce mind will conclude that God must be satan or as many christians do don't pay any attention to the glaring problem here. I suffer from neither conundrum.

Are you sure that your opinion isn't formed through preconceived notions from what other people have been telling you? Which came first, a pastor or parents telling you what to believe or you read the bible? If for instance, you were unexposed to Christianity, picked up the bible and formed these opinions based on the text without ANY outside influence guiding your decision making process, then maybe I can agree with you. But I'm willing to bet you were introduced to Christianity and its beliefs first THEN read the bible and interpreted accordingly.

You say that an untrained person would be quick to pounce and make these conclusions, but how about explaining why someone needs to be "trained" to read the bible to begin with. If the bible is truly the inspired word of god, it should be accessible to all levels of intellect, not just the intelligent or studied. I should be able to glance through the text and receive the same message as someone who has studied it for years.

Your are going to preach about ideas being formed from what people are telling you. Then what sir may I ask are you are doing? The question is rhetorical.