Where Did the Towers Go?

originally posted by: MX61000
Uncovering the truth about 911 isn't going to stop any agenda, why even bother...

We already know the truth and I am not about to give in just because the legal system is broken, more reason to fight back because that same warped, bent legal system might be used against you one day and we will all be on our own if we have the attitude of "why even bother" don't you think.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: CallmeRaskolnikov
toasted cars as far as the FDR on the opposite side of Manhattan island!??

Good grief - just by looking at pictures of them it is obvious they were moved there - truthers are really getting desperate now if they believe Judy Wood!

They were moved there? That makes absolutely no sense. The pictures of the few cars completely melted and destroyed on the opposite side of manhattan were on the shoulder of a freeway. so you're telling me that someone loaded up a destroyed car onto what? a tow truck? and then proceeded to drive it to the other side of manhattan, pulled over on a main freeway and then dumped the burned wreckage of not one but several cars onto the side of the road in front of all the normal traffic going on? while they left the other few hundred or so destroyed cars right where they were? yeah, that makes sense. ive been driving in nyc all my life but, i never knew the FDR was a dumping grounds for car wreckage....

originally posted by: CallmeRaskolnikov

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: CallmeRaskolnikov
toasted cars as far as the FDR on the opposite side of Manhattan island!??

Good grief - just by looking at pictures of them it is obvious they were moved there - truthers are really getting desperate now if they believe Judy Wood!

They were moved there?

Yes, they were moved there....

Of course, there is a perfectly reasonable alternative hypothesis that explains the toasted cars present on FDR Drive: they were towed away from Ground Zero and deposited there as a part of the clean-up and rescue effort. News reports confirm that tow trucks were operating in the days after 9/11 to haul damaged vehicles away from the disaster area. For example, one article from The Philadelphia Inquirer dated September 13, 2001 and entitled “Workers removing debris - and bodies” states, “Mangled or burned vehicles littered the disaster scene. … Cars mangled by the explosion were towed away to make room for recovery efforts. At the corner of Duane Street and Broadway, about eight blocks from the World Trade Center, a car burned beyond recognition was stacked on top of a flattened Cadillac Seville. Next to that steel sandwich were a bent Port Authority Police van and charred police, fire and emergency vehicles.” Also, Governor Pataki was quoted on Larry King Live on September 11, 2001 (transcript available here) as saying “We have national guard heavy equipment, wreckers and tow trucks and others trying to help out with police and fire who are going through the rubble and trying to just find as many people that we can save and rescue and help those who need our help as possible.” Firehouse.com quoted Tom McDonald, Assistant Commissioner of Fleet and Technical Services for the FDNY regarding Ground Zero on 9/11: “It was not until late in the evening of September 11 that McDonald was able to get eight to 10 tow trucks and drivers into the area to start moving equipment out.” On September 12, 2001, CourtTV News reported here that “Abandoned and damaged cars were being towed away. Cars parked closest to the trade center were crushed.” The Hampton Union, in a news article covering a local Towing Association trade show in May, 2002, lamented that the Staten Island Garage, which one Best of Show at the previous year’s show, was unable to attend this year because, “They've been at ground zero since last September.” A reporter for the Chicago Sun Times stated that on September 20, 2006, “Tow truck drivers zip down quiet streets in the dead of night, carting ash- covered, badly crumpled patrol cars.” An American Public Works Association article, available here and cited in the WR paper, proclaims that approximately “1,400 vehicles were recovered” from the disaster area and “carefully stockpiled in a separate area near the edge of the” Fresh Kills Landfill, which is located in Staten Island. The same APWA article also states that all of the materials that were transferred to Fresh Kills (which presumably includes the vehicles) went through temporary transport stations located at Pier 25 and Pier 6. FDR Drive, coincidentally, runs right past Pier 6. It is logical to assume, therefore, that the cars depicted near FDR Drive in Wood’s pictures were towed there near the temporary transport station at Pier 6 before being taken to Fresh Kills. Moreover, an examination of the pictures of toasted cars on FDR Drive shows that several aspects of the cars along the side of the road that suggest they were towed and deposited there. The following are three examples:

www.google.com.au... 2Fb%2Fscientific-critique-of-judy-woods-paper-star-wars-beam-weapons-by-james-gourley.pdf&ei=oMFXU9nkJIiSlAW4p4GIDA&usg=AFQjCNHZGi2Dfs9AoBSdqdLXCjLr0H fRQA&sig2=CugVBypE7p-7FTeu8NN-pA&bvm=bv.65177938,d.dGI

I feel like this topic has been discussed somewhere else before. Hmmm, I'll have to check the other forums and see if i can figure out where to find it.
Has the "dustification" of steel ever been acheived anywhere other than on 9/11?

originally posted by: abdctd
I feel like this topic has been discussed somewhere else before. Hmmm, I'll have to check the other forums and see if i can figure out where to find it.
Has the "dustification" of steel ever been acheived anywhere other than on 9/11?

Steel was turned to dust was it

Are You Sure

Once the picture has loaded click on it for a better view.

Plenty of steel there !!!!

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: cestrup

NO the floorslabs could fall internally due to the design.

Seeing how the towers were designed to survive the impact of a plane larger than the one that hit them then it wasn't designed to fall that way.

That has been contested a few times the design never took into account a DELIBERATE attack at high speed fully loaded with fuel !!!

a reply to: wmd_2008

Did u even look at the pic?

Not even close to the amout of steel that should have been there

A little math 47 x 1200 = 56400 feet of steel inner columns per building

112800 feet total. Since we know at least 50% of one building was standing after collapsea mininum of 28200 feet of steel should be right on top oft pile

Where is that steel again? May be you could circle it In your pic

That steel isgone and thats not including the facade steel that is absent

Keep trying

And for an indepth discussion search for the spires on ats

ill link the thread I hijacked later if you cant find it but in a hurry atm

originally posted by: cestrup

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: cestrup

NO the floorslabs could fall internally due to the design.

This falls apart when the floor is dustified - which everyone can see with their own eyes - so what extra mass are you speaking of? The massive dust wave landing on the next floor?? You can't have it both ways, either the floors stay in tact and "pancake" like you'd have us believe or they turned to dust (which everyone sees) and mass is lost tremendously at every collision which would have brought the process to a hault about 70 floors before it did.

YOU obviously don't understand that there was NO extra mass, any mass that fell internally would hit the floor slab immediately below it ALL the floor slabs had the same connection design apart from the service floors the STEEL was not turned to dust NOT all the concrete was turned to dust. There were MANY building components that turned to dust sheetrock thousands of square mtrs , vermiculite insulation thousands of sq mtrs, sprayed on fire protection thousands of sq mtrs even the glass NOT THE STEEL!!!!!

Look at the mass dropping from above the impact area's that amounts to thousands of tons which then generated a DYNAMIC load the buildings literally peeled themselves apart.

originally posted by: Another_Nut
a reply to: wmd_2008

Did u even look at the pic?

Not even close to the amout of steel that should have been there

A little math 47 x 1200 = 56400 feet of steel inner columns per building

112800 feet total. Since we know at least 50% of one building was standing after collapsea mininum of 23200 feet of steel should be right on top oft pile

Where is that steel again? May be you could circle it In your pic

That steel isgone and thats not including the facade steel that is absent

Keep trying

And for an indepth discussion search for the spires on ats

ill link the thread I hijacked later if you cant find it but in a hurry atm

So you can account for all the steel LOOKING at the picture to work out whats missing.

a reply to: wmd_2008

You seem to be able to account for it all in the pic.

Nice side step. Please circle all the steel you see in that pic

And dam it now im late lol

a reply to: wmd_2008

Fair the steel may not have been pulverized but damn near everything else was...
The steel was bend over its self and twisted and warped tho. Not common characteristics of steel.
We can argue over where steel "weakens" and what the actual temp of the fires from the jet fuel till we go blue in the face, weakened trusses don't explain how 30 floors pulverizes the other 80 of almost unmolested floors while almost losing no speed on the way down, the debris falling at free fall are just ahead of the collapse. It would only make sense if the part that was falling was made of something stronger then what it was falling on.
You can't take the top 3rd of a nail, chop it off and then drop it on the rest of the nail and have it hammer it down perfect.
The squibs are there, the debris getting launched off the side of the tower is there.
The eyewitness testimony from NYFD is there, and I think they know a think or two about what an explosion is.

And we are told it was gravity and a poorly designed buildings and brand new phenomena that plagued NY all morning

And then there is wtc 7, do you want to start getting into dynamic energy there?

a reply to: wmd_2008

Nice strawman there, buddy. I never stated once that the steel was turned to dust.

I also was trying to illustrate to you that there was no "extra mass" so I don't know what you're arguing for there. We are in agreement. I'm actually arguing that tremendous amounts of mass are being ejected to the side, sans the "piledriver" so if anything - this process should have halted; not accelerated all the way to the ground. That's what defies physics and that is why, when EXPERTS plan demolitions - they have to take out the base, core, support beams etc. Not just damage a small fraction of the top and let momentum and gravity do the rest as the OS would have us believe. That's a crock of #e

Yes, they were moved there....

Of course, there is a perfectly reasonable alternative hypothesis that explains the toasted cars present on FDR Drive: they were towed away from Ground Zero and deposited there as a part of the clean-up and rescue effort. News reports confirm that tow trucks were operating in the days after 9/11 to haul damaged vehicles away from the disaster Fresh Kills Landfill, which is located in Staten Island. The same APWA article also states that all of the materials that were transferred to Fresh Kills (which presumably includes the vehicles) went through temporary transport stations located at Pier 25 and Pier 6. FDR Drive, coincidentally, runs right past Pier 6. It is logical to assume, therefore, that the cars depicted near FDR Drive in Wood’s pictures were towed there near the temporary transport station at Pier 6 before being taken to Fresh Kills. Moreover, an examination of the pictures of toasted cars on FDR Drive shows that several aspects of the cars along the side of the road that suggest they were towed and deposited there. The following are three examples:

www.google.com.au... 2Fb%2Fscientific-critique-of-judy-woods-paper-star-wars-beam-weapons-by-james-gourley.pdf&ei=oMFXU9nkJIiSlAW4p4GIDA&usg=AFQjCNHZGi2Dfs9AoBSdqdLXCjLr0H fRQA&sig2=CugVBypE7p-7FTeu8NN-pA&bvm=bv.65177938,d.dGI

firstly, that link doesn't work.

secondly, you don't seem to be getting this. which i know probably must be hard for you to visualize since you probably don't live here in new york. but the side of the road on a major parkway like the FDR is not nor ever has been a temporary dumping grounds for wreckage and certainly not burned out cars by the dozen. that shoulder on the side of the FDR is an emergency shoulder for cars to pull over. its not a place where the city would dump things thus preventing that shoulder from being used in the case of an emergency for its actual purpose.

there are plenty of places where they could have taken wreckage away to make room for emergency vehicles and store them temporarily. lots, garages, other piers. your source says well the FDR is near the pier where the wreckage was being processed through so it makes sense. well, no, that doesn't make sense. and if you actually knew the area you would know that the excuse of "they were towed there" doesn't add up. there were cars like that miles from the pier and the FDR is elevated and separate from the pier area so that's not even a remotely convenient place nor a logical storage place for the piers. your source doesn't say that its a fact that these cars where towed there for storage because they cant say that. it says "its logical to assume" they were. that isn't fact. and it's not logical to make that assumption if again you knew the area at all.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: wmd_2008

Fair the steel may not have been pulverized but damn near everything else was...
The steel was bend over its self and twisted and warped tho. Not common characteristics of steel.
We can argue over where steel "weakens" and what the actual temp of the fires from the jet fuel till we go blue in the face, weakened trusses don't explain how 30 floors pulverizes the other 80 of almost unmolested floors while almost losing no speed on the way down, the debris falling at free fall are just ahead of the collapse. It would only make sense if the part that was falling was made of something stronger then what it was falling on.
You can't take the top 3rd of a nail, chop it off and then drop it on the rest of the nail and have it hammer it down perfect.
The squibs are there, the debris getting launched off the side of the tower is there.
The eyewitness testimony from NYFD is there, and I think they know a think or two about what an explosion is.

And we are told it was gravity and a poorly designed buildings and brand new phenomena that plagued NY all morning

And then there is wtc 7, do you want to start getting into dynamic energy there?

Well first of all you and cestrup don't seem to understand that the simple fact that the floor slabs where suspended internally between the outer wall & innner core wall meant that when the connections holding that floor failed the mass of that floor dropped INTERNALLY on the floor below. The floor trusses were supported by angle cleats and you can see pictures of them snapped.

So each floor had to try and resist the impact from the collapse from above like I said the buildings literally peeled themselves apart.

There are no squibs, that is dust being ejected by air pressure, I take it you 2 are not in the construction industry but it may interest YOU to know that until this event proper calculations on steel structures were not carried out with regards to thermal loading due to fire.

The Cardington fire tests results showed that an office fire could generated temps of 900c+ in 30 mins why do you things millions is spent on fire protection of steelwork

Now if you 2 want to play around with some some figures the concrete floor slab at around 4.5" thick depending on what figure you use for the concrete in the floor mix , the concrete would weigh between 800-1000 US short tons you would also have the truss & floorpan steel plus furniture etc. So say around the 1000 ton mark as a minimum that would drop one floor height so that's 3.6 mtrs .

So stick the figures in here Impact force from falling objects play around with the stopping distance as it didn't stop use say the angle thickness a lot had sheared or the bolts did so the angle cleats were 1" thick so thats 25.4 mm or 0.0254 mtrs

Try 100kg with the figures for floor height and stopping distance a see the load generated.

Remember the North Tower although hit first fell second because the load above the impact point was less than the South Tower who would have thought that!!!

As for WT7 it had a 20 storey gash in one elevation damage to at least one corner and substantial fires!!!

a reply to: wmd_2008

I get that you understand how the collapse initiated, that's great. Fires weakened the trusses, sure I get that.

Each floor would resist the floors above them, not that they would win, but they would resist.
With that in mind, why does the lower portion of BOTH towers show almost NO resistance to the falling building?
The towers fell at damn near free fall speed, wtc 7 even hitting free fall, what was giving the top sections the power to pulverize the lower sections when they were made out of the same exact material as the top section?
What got rid of the resitance that the lower section of the building should have shown, they fell STRAIGHT DOWN.

Oh and NIST came out and said the damage WTC 7 sustained did nothing to the collapse of that building, nor was it the fires.
It was never before seen thermal expansion and the failure of single support column that some how made 8 floors disappear and then caused a chain reaction of failuers that lead to a global collapse, almost in its own foot print...for the third time that morning, the worst possible outcome happened because of never before seen phenomena and apparently just out right poor architecture. Makes sense they built the new towers the same way......

And you are right about the fireproofing, Turner construction company did the fireproofing on almost the exact floors that were hit.
The building was also FULL of asbestos, out dated sure, but was it not effective?

I'm still convinced we should never forget!

Jesse Ventura never stops seeking the truth. I think he is one of the few real american heroes.

I think this is a good starting show for ATS to follow. Watch out Ventura! People on ATS can make you think... ! I'm sure you will find critics.

But there are also a lot of interesting topics on the forums here to learn from.

Good luck I'll be sure to check this out.

a reply to: wmd_2008

no, those are blast squibs. All of the air pressure would escape, in your model of collapse, out of the sides which would explain the mass ejecta. The rest of your post is just junk science of having to explain a scenario (1/10000000) of how the towers could have collapsed (and both did the exact same way so make it 1/1000000000000) without the use of explosives. You and everyone else acts as if the bottom 3/4s of the building isn't pushing upwards with the exact same force as being pushed down. You act as if the entire structure was compromised when in reality a fraction of it was. Your model cannot, for the last time, explain the acceleration downwards treating the building as if it were of no structural integrity. Who would have thought that a couple 767s, some fire/jetfuel cocktail, sagging trusses (my favorite), and floor slabs could do the job demo experts plan over months? Oh, can you show me a real world example of fire-proofed steel being weakened by fire and sagging or do I have to trust the authorities on that as well?

a reply to: cestrup

Also that the "air" is getting pushed out stories below the collapse as it is coming down.... over and over again.

who benefited who has the power to cover it up