This Epitomizes Why Abortion Is Wrong !

Since 1980 1.33 BILLION killed !

how many unwanted have you adopted?

A very interesting and valid article on when a fetus has the capability of meaningful life outside the mother’s womb

"It could be argued that sentience is a more rational threshold than viability because of the connection between sentience and moral considerability"

muse.jhu.edu...

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

If you think abortion is "wrong" and "evil", then don't get one. Problem solved.

originally posted by: windword

I wonder how many women's lives have been saved since 1980.

Saved as in going to the doctor to have the baby she conceived killed, instead of doing it herself, and possibly killing herself in the process?

Or saved as in having the abortion because the pregnancy was life threatening?

I can assure you the latter makes up a very, very small percentage.

reply to: Blue_Jay33

Didn't god ask Abraham to sacrifice his son and ask for animal sacrifices? Didn't god sacrifice his own son for us? It seems to me that the Christian god has the motto of "do as I say and not as I do".

I'm against abortion after a certain amount of time, but if it's very early in the development cycle, I see it as the woman's right to choose. What of women who are raped and get pregnant? Should they be forced to have the child of the rapist and go through labor and birthing pains?

If aborted babies go to heaven, wouldn't the abortion actually be benefiting them in the end? There are so many problems with the Christian view on abortion in my opinion.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I say we have condoms and pills for a reason. If you have to have an abortion, you're clearly either very fertile and ought to take additional precautions, or you didn't take any precautions to begin with.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
Has anybody counted how many lives have been lost to religious wars since the Bible was introduced?

I betcha it's way more than you're quoting about

.

So put up some numbers and sources and let's compare them. Also, since most of you consider the Bible just a collection of fairy tails and hocus pocus BS, I would advise you not to use it as a source.

Honestly I would be extremely impressed if you can top 1.33 BILLION.

a reply to: AfterInfinity

Problem is that condoms aren't always 100% effective and accidents happen. Christians are also against the pill, so obviously that's not an option either.

You can be as cautious as possible, but that doesn't always mean you won't get pregnant. There should be an option in case those accidents do happen.

The omelet doesn't have chicken, its just an egg cell, a chicken is fertilized egg. Just to clear that up.

Also, the abortion thing is a quite hard concept, have to take into many measure before such action can be taken. It needs to be discussed between partners on the best outcome.

To add:

I don't believe one person should have control over another's life, whether its their spouse for the next 18 yrs or an inconvenient foetus that is getting in the way of their social party life..

What if abortion is god's version of population control? No one has a problem with hunting to keep numbers low so why is it different for babies that aren't even conscious yet?

a reply to: Bone75

Also, since most of you consider the Bible just a collection of fairy tails and hocus pocus BS, I would advise you not to use it as a source.

How convenient!

I don't understand the logic of using the Bible to criticize abortion. The Biblical God is NOT pro-life and advocated abortion and murder. Even Jesus said "Woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck" and "It would be better for him to never have been born."

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
What if abortion is god's version of population control? No one has a problem with hunting to keep numbers low so why is it different for babies that aren't even conscious yet?

Was just going to mention this but you in different words beat me to it. In Africa on the contrary it is believed that the more you have the higher your status. Daughters are traded for cows, the more daughters you have the more cows you will have. Overpopulation and poverty go hand in hand
Our state president has something like 24 kids, OK it works for him cause its supported by tax payers, but there are many of those that believe they will gain financially or status, and reproduce at alarming rates only to find out that nowadays, without education, they fling themselves down this hole of poverty that they cannot get out of. Some starve, many die as a lack of medication , they are extremely susceptible to AIDS, tuberculosis and malaria.

What would be better here? education to enlighten them not to have too many, and give abortion as a means out if mistakes happen, or feed their Christian belief "go forth and multiply" Which of course deprives the whole family.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
1.33 Billion more humans on this planet resulting in even more eco disasters and more poor uneducated people fighting over jobs that do not exists, resulting in even poorer conditions since the ones in power is gonna use every advantage to get more of the cake faster if they can. 1.33 Billion more souls suffering.

1.33 billions souls being unharmed of this place and not trapped here. People who see the abortion thing as only bad thing have no clue how screwed up humanity is and how good the next level is. If you where supposed to have those 1.33 Billions souls then they would have been here, but humanity cannot even take care collectively of the 7.228.231.500 souls that are already sent here.

Then what is the solution? More abortions?

We can't tell certain groups to limit the number of children they have, that would be racism. And remember, China had that policy for a long time, it didn't work out so well.

People are going to willingly get pregnant or have abortions, we can't stop them. Should we make laws enforcing the number that people should have?

Tell me op who is going to look after those children ?. Seeing their are millions of kids already either in states care or at worse on the street.
Abortion has empowered women by giving them a choice.
Sure you may not like it but it will not be banned unless a religious government in and then abortion will be the least of our worries.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: AfterInfinity

Problem is that condoms aren't always 100% effective and accidents happen. Christians are also against the pill, so obviously that's not an option either.

You can be as cautious as possible, but that doesn't always mean you won't get pregnant. There should be an option in case those accidents do happen.

Which Christians are against the pill?

Catholics used to be but not any more. I don't know any Christian who does not use the pill. This would be a straw man argument.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
Tell me op who is going to look after those children ?. Seeing their are millions of kids already either in states care or at worse on the street.
Abortion has empowered women by giving them a choice.
Sure you may not like it but it will not be banned unless a religious government in and then abortion will be the least of our worries.

Women have been having abortions for as long as women have been getting pregnant. Abortions empower women?

No, the right to vote empowered women.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

Has anybody counted how many lives have been lost to religious wars since the Bible was introduced?

I betcha it's way more than you're quoting about

Not even close.

In recorded history, only three major conflicts were purely over religion ("religious wars") -- the Arab conquests, the Crusades and the Reformation Wars. Given that the world's population back then wasn't a billion people, your guess is pretty far off the mark. (See The War Audit)

1.33 billion children murdered since 1980 is a horrific statistic, but not surprising for a culture like ours that glorifies promiscuity, personal irresponsibility and violence.

originally posted by: WarminIndy

Which Christians are against the pill?

Catholics used to be but not any more. I don't know any Christian who does not use the pill. This would be a straw man argument.

I am. I understand my stance may seem extreme to most of you, but a fertilized egg is a human life, so anything that either directly harms that egg or inhibits it's ability to implant in the womb is a big no no to me. Unfortunately, determining which drugs effect the lining of the uterus in such a manner depends on who's website or book you read.

a reply to: adjensen

1.33 billion children murdered since 1980 is a horrific statistic, but not surprising for a culture like ours that glorifies promiscuity, personal irresponsibility and violence.

Christians formally declared war on the entire world! They are responsible for way more death than any one government, but they have been able to work their agenda of conquering the world through governments.

Pope Alexander VI

Doctrine of Discovery
THE DOCTRINES DECREED BY ROMAN CATHOLIC POPES, begining in 1452, were adopted by European Christian Nations for the purpose of providing them a legal cover to pillage and destroy non-White Civilizations around the World, whose citizens were indiscriminately slaughtered by the tens of thousands, enslaved, raped, and dehumanized. Daniel N. Paul

********************
"Unbelievers deserve not only to be separated from the Church, but also... to be exterminated from the World by death." - Thomas Aquinas (1271)

www.danielnpaul.com...

a reply to: WarminIndy

Which Christians are against the pill?

In 1968, Pope Paul VI issued his landmark encyclical letter Humanae Vitae (Latin, "Human Life"), which reemphasized the Church’s constant teaching that it is always intrinsically wrong to use contraception to prevent new human beings from coming into existence.
..............

Ignoring the mountain of evidence, some maintain that the Church considers the use of contraception a matter for each married couple to decide according to their "individual conscience." Yet, nothing could be further from the truth. The Church has always maintained the historic Christian teaching that deliberate acts of contraception are always gravely sinful, which means that it is mortally sinful if done with full knowledge and deliberate consent (CCC 1857). This teaching cannot be changed and has been taught by the Church infallibly.

There is no way to deny the fact that the Church has always and everywhere condemned artificial contraception. The matter has already been infallibly decided. The so-called "individual conscience" argument amounts to "individual disobedience." www.catholic.com...

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
Unwanted unborn babies are a group that is being killed, if your only point is systematics, bravo for you.
The point still stands.

WHO (World Health Organisation) estimates that unsafe abortions cause
the death of at least 200 women each day, over 70,000 women each year,
yet it is one of the most easily preventable and treatable causes of
maternal mortality. (WHO Safe Motherhood Conference 1998)

Then as now making abortion illegal neither eliminates the need for
abortion nor prevents its practice.

The vast majority of women do not take abortion lightly, mostly they
are for one reason or another desperate otherwise as happened in the
past why would they put their own lives on the line? Women who are
determined not to carry an unwanted pregnancy have always
found some way to and even risked death to end a pregnancy .....

Are those women's lives (for they are alive and able to live) less
valuable than a cluster of cells incapable of sustaining a life on its own ?
Are those many, many women who have died not a group?