MANY People Vanishing Into Thin Air! WHAT'S HAPPENING???

a reply to: Phage

If real rescue searchers were using bloodhounds, it is all but impossible to throw them off and miss tracking.

This was actually tested in MythBusters (episode 74, which is in Season 8). In fact, that personal perfume is strong enough that none of Jamie's bloodhound-busting tactics worked. He zigzagged and doubled back on his trail, ran through a river, washed and changed clothes, doused himself in coffee and cologne, and even covered his tracks in ground pepper — all to no avail. Each time, the bloodhound sniffed right through the ruse and found the hiding Hyneman. They were only able to confuse the dog a little bit - when they changed out of their clothes, there was so much scent, that the dog wasn't sure where to go. But within a few minutes, the dog picked up the track again and found Jamie within minutes.

skeptics.stackexchange.com...

Someone "trying" to elude and throw a bloodhound (the best of the best) off their trail could not do so, even through water. People lost certainly aren't trying to elude a search dog as well as find their way out. There have been instances of people hiring out 'search dogs' that weren't properly trained. I don't buy in those accounts that there was a bona fide trained search dog that could not follow those people's scents all the way to them.

A German Shepherd I had many years ago was able to follow each and every foot step I made on our acreage and even our car scent when we left the farm and went 5 miles to the store. I witnessed him doing it - nose to the ground following every inch. Was amazing to see. He was not trained at all, was normal for him. Well trained dogs don't fail in search and rescue unless the scent stops.

Regarding the accounts of disappearing people by David Paulides - it is possible some of them can eventually be explained - but as a physicist once said in a lecture I attended all you need is 'one' black rabbit to prove not 'all' rabbits are white. There are way too many strange cases - black rabbits, so to speak - to say they're all white (explainable).

a reply to: wishes

If real rescue searchers were using bloodhounds, it is all but impossible to throw them off and miss tracking.

So they were fake rescue searchers using bloodhounds? In Mythbusters they were following a "hot", fresh trail.

Bloodhounds picked up Augustyniak's scent on the Rail Trail, but later lost it, police have said.

www.yorkdispatch.com...

There are way too many strange cases - black rabbits, so to speak - to say they're all white (explainable).

Unexplained does not equate with unexplainable. Sometimes remains are found after years. Sometimes, not at all.

On Oct. 24, 1981, Carroll's 21-year-old son, Keith Zunke, went on a trip to the Umatilla National Forest in Oregon, with fellow residents of a group home for the developmentally disabled. He got lost and was never found.

That is, until last summer when a group of hikers came upon human remains that were just confirmed as Zunke's by the U.S. Forest Service and the Oregon State Medical Examiner's Office, according to KNDO-TV.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

I cannot speak for all of the cases, and no doubt there will be some more 'interesting' cases, but quite often people will go missing in wilderness areas and their bodies aren't found for decades.

There was a case recently of a fourty-something year old cold case file being solved of two girls that were on their way to a party in a remote area and simply disappeared. Just recently they found their car and their bodies in a shallow bog just off one of the main roads where they had been driving.

Just my two cents to add in, but the original topic of this thread was the work of David Paulides. He's been a valued and welcomed guest of ATS, both on site and radio.

In reading his work in more depth, I can see why and I personally consider his efforts to be both valuable and thought provoking. He doesn't solve anything that I see, but then, I'm not sure he expects to as a one man investigation team all this time. I wonder if he's happy just getting the well presented issues out to a public, among whom someone may well pick up the torch to carry with more resources and energy at some point.

I'd never considered his books before. Now that I've running through what I can find in open source places....I just might. His work is certainly serious.

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: rapunzel222

Whatever is responsible for such disappearances . . .

it's NOT charitable, nice, righteous, benevolent. NOT AT ALL.

i didn't say it was did i? oh, if you mean when i referred to twilight, i was more referring to certain specific things about how the vampires in it hunted and covered scent trails and left the bodies in the forest for the scent to wash away etc, rather than their 'niceness'... plenty of them weren't nice in that movie anyway...

but since we're on the topic, it COULD just be an alien predator of some kind.

so in other words, scary to US, because we are its PREY, e.g. in the same way bears, sharks and lions eat us and scare us.

but does that mean it's EVIL? i am not so sure, nor would i leap to that conclusion.

i find bears nice, and lions, and even sharks, although i also fear them and try not to meet them in the wild for obvious reasons....

then again, i really don't know what it is so i guess i am only speculating....

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: NiZZiM

Bears don't neatly stack your clothes after they eat you, especially if you are an expert in the field and armed.

Thats true (so is it bigfoot taking off peoples' clothes?).People experiencing hypothermia do.

What our team found was a full set of clothing--jacket, pants, shoes, underwear--along with the victim's identification and credit card right beside the neatly laid-out garments. So neat, in fact, they may as well have been put there only days before, had it not been for their weathered appearance.

sarstoriesnews.blogspot.com...

i'd question how many ppl with hypothermia actually can be bothered to neatly stack their clothes? what with being in the middle of dying and all.

maybe it's happened once or twice, but i think it would be more likely they would be strewn around as if by someone in distress and confusion....

a reply to: Phage

Doodness, Phage . . . I think your brilliance slipped a bit on that one.

How many narratives have you read of hypothermia victims removing their clothes and folding them neatly etc?

I don't recall a single one.

a reply to: rapunzel222

I don't know how to describe . . .

any . . .

sentient, socially organized . . . organism . . .

that does the sorts of things described . . .

as anything but on the evil end of the continuum on such scores.

And, actually, it can even be argued . . . that the animal kingdom is also infected with evil since the fall.

The future has the lion lying peacefully with the lamb . . . once evil has been removed from "all creation."

And . . . it's stated that "all creation" waits eagerly, yearningly, desperately for the manifestation of [those who will aid in the removal of such evil].

originally posted by: BO XIAN
The future has the lion lying peacefully with the lamb . . . once evil has been removed from "all creation."

Does that mean all carnivores are going vegan or will they derive needed nutrients from love? Is me liking a nice porterhouse 'evil' because it requires consuming another animal?

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: Phage

I don't recall a single one.

Let me refresh your memory.
www.google.com...

a reply to: rapunzel222

i'd question how many ppl with hypothermia actually can be bothered to neatly stack their clothes?

People experiencing hypothermia are usually not in their right minds. How many cases does Paulides talk about, btw?

During my incident in the mountains I was so disoriented I didn’t realize I was in danger. Sitting in that snow bank in the freezing rain, I commented on the pleasant weather and insisted that I was feeling rather warm. By that point I was too hypothermic to realize I was suffering from heat loss.

www.aasfonline.org...

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

It is a startling verse that declares that the lions et al will eat grass.

And God Himself told an Old Testament patriarch to "kill and eat."

Nevertheless, it appears to be His strong preference to have no violence nor bloodshed.

a reply to: Phage

Which of those cases included neatly folded clothes?

That's what I don't recall hearing of before.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Have you studied a lot of hypothermia cases? I posted one such case earlier.
It is a known, if somewhat bizarre. behavior.

In 1998, a climber died of Hypothermia on the North Side. All that was found left of him was his clothing neatly folded below the summit. This is quite typical of the condition. Confused, the brain tries to bring some order in the situation, thus folding the clothes.

www.mounteverest.net...

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: wishes

Perhaps you'd like to explain how bloodhounds can follow their scent to a point then the scent completely 'stops'?

It happens. Like this case:

Bloodhounds picked up Jack and Cendoya's scents early Monday and again late Monday night, officials said. Tuesday afternoon, rescuers combed through a 2-mile arc from the hikers' car, focusing efforts on where the dogs last found the scents.

articles.latimes.com...

In this case, they were found. But not by dogs.

Last March, Cendoya and his friend Kyndall Jack got lost while hiking in the Cleveland National Forest, sparking an extensive search that cost thousands of dollars. The teens admitted to being under the influence of drugs when they became disoriented and lost their way in the California wilderness.

abclocal.go.com...

It was her screams that brought searchers to her hours after they found her hiking companion, 19-year-old Nicolas Cendoya on Wednesday night, said Orange County sheriff's Lt. Jason Park.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Those news articles are lacking in detail (not surprisingly). They do not say what type of tracking dog was used or for how long. They found the people a few days later less than a mile from their car. I find it difficult to believe that a 'certified' search dog would lose their scent unless 'maybe' there was a major downpour that washed it away but the news article doesn't mention weather so that's an unknown. But even then, there are cases of dogs detecting dead bodies under 80 feet of water. It is not abnormal for scents to remain strong for a days and depending on environment/weather even for weeks.

In the example you gave, I'd want a lot more information before I could remotely even entertain that a bona fide search and rescue dog failed and lost the scent of two people in dense forest that were within a few miles of where they got lost. Dogs are just way too good at it.

I hope you will take some time and listen to some of Paulides interviews - I first heard him a year or two ago, he talked about some of the most bizarre circumstances and events. The parks do not keep track of people who go missing and that in itself is a head scratcher. Some people in the cases are recovered without memories of what happened, some have vague memories, one case was about a 3 year old who disappeared off the farm and was found in a cave a few miles away with a wolf and pups unharmed. They're all very different.

And yes, each and every single one of these cases DO, in fact, have an explanation - it's just that we don't know what they all are.... therein lies the mystery

Well, there are really only two possible explanations.

Wolfen, and human mutilation by aliens. I think that covers all the bases.

a reply to: Phage

No. Haven't studied many cases.

Experienced a relatively mild case of it on one camping outing.

Thanks for the example. The trying to establish order in a confused mental state makes some sense.

I have followed this thread from start to finish and am completely satisfied that there is one poster bent on derailing it for the sake of being contrary, to the point I simply have stopped reading the posts from that user as it detracts from a fascinating and eerie topic.

I could not care less if David Paulides makes a few million from his efforts. My concern is the fact that these strange disappearances are occurring, the National Park System at the very least is obscuring the facts, on purpose or otherwise, for reasons I can only conjecture. Connecting the dots on missing persons is a key component, me thinks, to understanding trends and timelines in these situations, Hiding or not keeping records does not sound like an above board way to "serve and protect". Any respectable law enforcement agency, most anywhere in North America, would have a mechanism for keeping records, connecting dots and for trying to understand what is happening to the souls who seem to vanish without a trace.

Yes, Oregon is large. The United States is vast. So what? These clusters have some very strange elements associated with them. If some wish to write those elements and this topic off...so be it and move onto another topic. For those of us who buy into the idea that this is happening and that there is an unconventional and eerie aspect at play, and that there seems to be some sort of cover-up (at some upper level) going on, I believe Paulides is providing at the very least, a service to each that would have previously viewed the vast wilderness as some relatively controlled area.

a reply to: BiffTannen

I believe Paulides is providing at the very least, a service to each that would have previously viewed the vast wilderness as some relatively controlled area.

That's an oxymoron. The definition of wilderness is that it is not a controlled area. Any that venture into the wilderness should be aware of that. If they are not, if they think the wilderness is "controlled", they have no business being there. Even those who are prepared can get into trouble.

Yes, people disappear in the wilderness. Often they are found. Sometimes they are not. To cast a mysterious aura around those who are not found reeks of sensationalism.

David Paulides, a former lawman turned investigative journalist and Bigfoot researcher, joined George Knapp to discuss more missing person cases from national parks and forests that government agencies seem to be less than interested in seriously investigating.

www.coasttocoastam.com...

Interesting stuff, and the Paulides books are fascinating reading. If you get then, go to his own site, not Amazon or someplace, because the markup is insane. He deals with only certain types of cases, but there are certainly others that might qualify, but which happen in busier areas, so it's harder to be certain.