Discoveries Challenge Beliefs on Humans’ Arrival in the Americas

originally posted by: peter vlar
a reply to: Telos

You don't at all see the lurid irony of calling out someone for giving you information simply because it doesn't jive with what you choose to believe? Why not look at all of the available information and see both sides as opposed to plugging your ears and screaming nanny nanny boo boo. If your not here to learn as well as share then what's the point? Cut text is everything and that applies to the sources of your information as well as the data itself.

I haven't chosen to believe anything. I'm looking at both sides. I have already looked for years what he's saying and now I'm trying to see what's in other alternative information. Do you understand this or I have to spell it out? I don't agree with name calling and being labeled with epithets that don't describe neither me nor my education. End of the story.

a reply to: Telos

If you can't see that despite how you describe things, how you present your stance definitely appears to be in opposition to your statement above. You made claims regarding Virginia Steen-McIntyre being ostracized and removed from her positions because she published data that was counter to the current paradigm which simply isn't true. That's not looking at both sides, its parroting someone else's claim based entirely on ignorance. That's not looking at both sides if you get angry when someone points out the factual error of the statement. No matter how you dress the pony up he's not getting into the Westminster kennel club.

a reply to: Harte

So tell us when this will get shown to the public, if no one has even seen Clovis then what is being shown even more backwards crap?

It does not matter to ANYONE what SOME scientists or what-not believe, the fact this IS suppressed to the world, and that it progresses in such small stages in the highest levels of archaeology and teachings means one thing..... It is still ENTIRELY being controlled as to how, when , and where any information will be updated, and to whom will see it.

For sure I believe that you are still likely entirely wasting your time with the system, but still have hope someone will actually TRULY try to find out the truth, not from inside some pre-manifested reality that most of the world will never hear about anyways.

originally posted by: ParasuvO
It does not matter to ANYONE what SOME scientists or what-not believe, the fact this IS suppressed to the world, and that it progresses in such small stages in the highest levels of archaeology and teachings means one thing..... It is still ENTIRELY being controlled as to how, when , and where any information will be updated, and to whom will see it.

You did note that the topic at hand is the changing of the paradigm, right? The true chronicling of our past is based upon our best notions of the facts. That's a good thing. Take a deep breath...science is your friend.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Howdy Johnny

Hmmm, some of the folks here don't seem to know how the monolithic structure of archaeology actually works (in the USA)......that's a statement made in humor of course there is no 'monolithic structure of archaeology', for those of us who have worked in the field and otherwise been associated with it I would think the phrase 'free flowing chaos with varying degrees of cooperation' would better describe its 'structure'.

However, lets ask, those of you that hold that there is a controlled structure with somebody in charge - if so please describe it to us and tell us where its administrative center is, what it does and how, its name (of the organization), who runs it, by name if possible and what happens to dissents? Address the career of Dr. Schoch.

Additionally,

How do you explain that all the information that has come out in say the last fifty years, that has changed our understanding so much has come from said same archaeologists who are 'controlled'?

Finally,

Compare if you would the USA system with the old USSR system of archaeology research and academia which WAS controlled and was well known and documented - and how well it worked.

a reply to: Hanslune

Hans,
What's going on my friend.

Over the last few months I have read a handful of soviet era papers on the archeology of Eurasia, particularly siberia.
I found them to be very insightful and informative.
In one paper from the late sixties the author commmented on how much the skeletal remains found in Siberia resemble plains Indians and how little they resembled east Asian remains from the same age.

originally posted by: ParasuvO
a reply to: Harte

So tell us when this will get shown to the public, if no one has even seen Clovis then what is being shown even more backwards crap?

It does not matter to ANYONE what SOME scientists or what-not believe, the fact this IS suppressed to the world, and that it progresses in such small stages in the highest levels of archaeology and teachings means one thing..... It is still ENTIRELY being controlled as to how, when , and where any information will be updated, and to whom will see it.

For sure I believe that you are still likely entirely wasting your time with the system, but still have hope someone will actually TRULY try to find out the truth, not from inside some pre-manifested reality that most of the world will never hear about anyways.

Or, you could just watch NOVA on television.
Link

But, wouldn't it be great if there was some sort of a world-wide computer network?

Why, then people all over the world could get out from under the heavy hand of the all-powerful and evil Archaeologists.

Then, maybe, someone could invent some sort of a computer program to help the curious search this (theoretical) world-wide computer network, making their curiosity about early Americans much easier to satisfy!

Ah, well. We can only dream while evil Archaeologists keep us down. We'll never get out from under their malevolent oppression!

Harte

a reply to: punkinworks10

Howdy Punkinworks

They did produce a large amount of good stuff during those years but were constrained by having to follow certain 'pathways' i.e. they had to show that early man and his cultures were communist, that class struggle existed in all eras, etc.

Of course the archaeologists ran rings around the bureaucrats trying to 'control' them. When I dug in Cyprus one former Soviet member use to tell us stories of the scandalous things they would do - like sending a beef soup bone in as the femur of a proto-new soviet man's ancestor, that and just using a lot of Latin and Koine words to describe different layers showing development of 'capitalist style' specialists in early cultures.

a reply to: Harte

Hey Harte - have you told these guys what the initials H.A.R.T.E. actually means in Elamite?

I bet you haven't!

I see the nonsense remains constant and consistent over time. Hope to be finished with my project in June-July and then perhaps I can get back to the boards. This is just a short break from my onerous duties.

We can only dream while evil Archaeologists keep us down

Well some one has to do it - what would happen if all those Atlantaean (sp) vases were allowed to be sold on Ebay? A total collapse of humanity I'd say.

originally posted by: Hanslune
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck
Howdy Johnny

Hmmm, some of the folks here don't seem to know how the monolithic structure of archaeology actually works (in the USA)......that's a statement made in humor of course there is no 'monolithic structure of archaeology', for those of us who have worked in the field and otherwise been associated with it I would think the phrase 'free flowing chaos with varying degrees of cooperation' would better describe its 'structure'.

Hey Hans...good to see you. You know, I got into this game in my small way as a result of talking to a Mid-eastern archaeologist about Graham Hancock. This fellow was doing neolithic in Syria, and had a fair bit of experience in Egypt. He gently steered me towards the real deal and ultimately, that's more interesting and a better use of both energy and imagination.

I continue to post to those who try to bludgeon me with Von Daeniken and Cremo in the hopes that some will channel their interests towards real archaeology...whatever that is...and get to work with a trowel sometime, instead of a keyboard. Even Lehner started out as a Cayce devotee, right? So this is not about playing Mr. Smartypants (apologies to Byrd) - it's about taking advantage of a teachable moment.

Well, except for the Crazies...no hope there!!

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

I'd say about 40% of Archaeology 101 students (in the 80's and 90's) were believers come to undercover the secrets, most dropped out early on but you always got a few exiting the program and entering the profession, their interest in pre-history and whatnot driving them forever.

This banter here has a certain fascination and in the usenet days I used to forward useable ideas and concept up to my more esteemed colleagues for use, not so much now as the new generation of archaeologist are net savvy.

Oh off topic but what has happened recently with the new Norse finds?

originally posted by: Hanslune
a reply to: Harte

Hey Harte - have you told these guys what the initials H.A.R.T.E. actually means in Elamite?

I bet you haven't!

I see the nonsense remains constant and consistent over time. Hope to be finished with my project in June-July and then perhaps I can get back to the boards. This is just a short break from my onerous duties.

Yeah, it must be a lot of work, what with the squashing of the newest finds, the disinfo distribution, the oppression of the average Joe.

Of all the Evil Archaeologists in the world, you're the evil Archaeologyist, Hans.

Harte

originally posted by: Hanslune
Oh off topic but what has happened recently with the new Norse finds?

Not so off-topic, really. If you are referring to Patricia Sutherland's finds on Baffin Island Link, here's where the conspiracy folk can get some traction. She was shut down by our Dear Leader Steve, denied access to her work at the newly-reminted "Museum of History" (used to be Civilisation), and her husband who was on staff was sh!te-canned as well. There's quite a collective gasp of dismay in the Canadian archaeological community 'nuther link. Aside from Steve's general muzzling of federal scientists, I have a weird notion that the reason behind this is that he is afraid Denmark will use the issue to bolster claims to parts of our north. When Steve barks...it's generally about oil/resources. So...there's your conspiracy, folks.

originally posted by: Hanslune
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

How do you explain that all the information that has come out in say the last fifty years, that has changed our understanding so much has come from said same archaeologists who are 'controlled'?

Controlled archaeologists are for me the ones who misguide the public by saying that humans created societies 5000 years BC.

And the answer to your Q is "World War 2". That's what helped us find more ancient facts, that's what resulted to the creation of fast moving vehicles by the Nazis and the US, that's why both the Americans, the Russians and the Nazis cared so much about science.

Search for it and you shall see the reply.

a reply to: JesusChristwins
Well now...I'd call that particular batch of fancy 'rectally sourced'. Scientific term, of course.

originally posted by: JesusChristwins


Controlled archaeologists are for me the ones who misguide the public by saying that humans created societies 5000 years BC.

And the answer to your Q is "World War 2". That's what helped us find more ancient facts, that's what resulted to the creation of fast moving vehicles by the Nazis and the US, that's why both the Americans, the Russians and the Nazis cared so much about science.

Search for it and you shall see the reply.

Thanks for the reply

I believe you mean civilizations by the classic definition? Then they would be right if you actually mean 'societies', that has no firm definition for it. Human clans or family grouping go far back perhaps well before modern humans. Your terminally of 'controlled' is incorrect. Again controlled by who and how?

Don't quite understand your answer in regards to WWII. Again why would these 'controlled' archaeologists put out information which they gather by research and then publish if they are trying to hide the information they are putting out to the public which clearly shows new and unknown human pre-civilizations, like Gobelki Tepe, Catalhoyuk, humans and others perhaps in the Americas, etc. why do they not 'hide' this too?

Tell us what you think they are hiding and why - also if they hiding it how do you know about it? lol

There is a lot of Evidence that the Clovis people were killed off by the Clovis impact.

But since there is little Evidence of the pre Clovis people living during the Clovis times what killed off the pre Clovis people.

I believe that the pre Clovis people were really just early Clovis people.

And maybe the clovis people were a mix of pre clovis and a more smaller number of a tech advanced Solutrean people.

DNA study links indigenous Brazilians to Polynesians
www.nature.com... - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Were the Polynesians the so called pre clovis people moving north out of south america.
They would not have the history of killing the megafauna of north america

But if they joined the clovis people that did have the history with the megafauna of north america that were moving west and south.
They would have learned how to make the better clovis points and other clovis tech.

This would account for the problem of these early american people not fitting the .35 mile a generation migration in north america. (8000 to 10000 years for the colonization of north america alone)
alliance.la.asu.edu...
but yet have 20,000 to 22,000 year old sites in lower south america.

a reply to: ANNED

A study against the idea of an impact destorying the Clovis people

To quote from another study

But to call that haplogroup Polynesian is a bit of a misnomer,” says Lisa Matisoo-Smith, a molecular anthropologist at the University of Otago in Dunedin, New Zealand. The haplogroup is also found — albeit at a lower frequency — in populations living as far west as Madagascar.

Study on 'Polynesian DNA'

The study doesn't look at another explanation that the 'Asians' that came over the land bridge by foot or boat may have had common ancestors with the Polynesians as long as 40,000 years ago

The peopling of the Americans probably occurred in multiple waves probably back to pre-HSS, small nomadic groups are hard to detect in the archaeology record, what we are doing is seeing bits and pieces of avery chaotic situation that lasted tens of thousands of years. Making conclusion from this data is at best sketchy to darn right difficult.

a reply to: JesusChristwins
a reply to: JesusChristwins

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I'd like to fix the mistakes of the past. I'll do it so by correcting myself. Please do not delete my NEW posts or mod them before you read them.

I was always seeking the truth. That's why i got in the ATS in the first place. I was trying to listen to people who claimed to know the truth, the truth about our lives, the truth about our world, the truth about ourselves. I believed that i was speaking the truth, that i had found the truth and i wanted to share the truth with other people in order to help each other.

FOOL ME!!! Please forgive me for what i wrote, for what i may have caused to your thoughts, for dragging you to the shadows i was.

In my research for the truth i got in front of a TV person and a few others on the web. They had their approach regarding the world which was based on the fact that the NWO, the governments, etc are lying to us. As a huge fool, i believed them simply because they claimed that Jesus is the Lord. As an Orthodox Christian, i used to believe anything anyone was telling me as long as they also believed in God.

Fool me! I had never read the New Testament, never read the Orthodox Fathers, i wasn't even going to the Church! Yet i was claiming that i was an Orthodox Christian and that everything i was saying was based on the teachings of our faith. Huge lie! Everything i was saying was based on these few people. They were fooling people and then making tons of money by selling tons of lies in books. Sadly I bought (thankfully only once).

To keep it short, the Lord showed mercy on me and let me read the New Testament many times, read the Father, go to the Church and meet people God really loves. Now i know that all of things i was told were lies and that i also transferred these lies to you, to ATS readers.

I now know that the truth lies only within the New Testament and the words of the Orthodox Fathers and nowhere else. If you wish to know the truth like i did, read the New Testament from an Orthodox source as every other source (Catholic, Protestant, etc) has changed the original text as they wanted.

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I really wish i could reverse the time and never write all of these nonsense. I really wish i could also just delete my posts...

What a huge liar i am! Thank you all for correcting me!

I believe that Adam and Eve appeared on Earth on 5508 BC. I honestly do not know where that came from, didn't find the time to search it but as long as the Orthodox Fathers accepted it, i accept it too.

As i mentioned mistakenly: - ancient gods never existed. They were creations of humans and they were in fact demons.
- Atlantis never existed. I don't know why i believed that at first place. Just because one person mentioned it does not mean it did.
- I don't believe there is a cover up too. There is an Agenda being enforced in the books nowadays according to the Lunacek report but that lives history outside.

The Flood did existed though and happened as Genesis describes it. Even the Ark has been found at the location Genesis mentions. Everything is in Genesis to be honest, from the way civilizations were created to the way we cultivate land. Angels, as it states taught the first humans how to cultivate land (and i believe it). As for the civilizations, we created them upon our free will and that's why they are all different. One thing i know now, i mentioned the building before, is that we used to build our houses the way they are in Paradise.

The "Amfissa" thing, lie too. I had made it up as it sounded correct to the ears of a fool like me.

As for the Arrival in America, as long as the Flood happened around 3000 BC, the migration happened certainly afterwards. Thus we can place it safely between 3000 and 800 BC. Can't say if it happened earlier, i think it did not happen later though i'm not sure.

originally posted by: JesusChristwins...deleted...

Howdy Christwins

It would appear you have replaced one set of unscientific and fantastical set of beliefs with just another set of same, just a different 'flavor'.

I'm not sure it's an improvement however. I'm sure they will love you and your conversion over at the Religion forum.