United States of SWAT?

Okay then... What do we have, my fellow citizens? A Union of States or a State formed of a Union?

It seems to me, more and more, we have a Union born from states and now coming unified under central and absolute control. It's subtle..and we're in no police state..yet. However, it is almost impossible to not see the framework build around us and growing more robust as the weeks pass.

Be that as it may for the big picture, it's never the BIG picture whch ultimately matters. It's the little thumbnails that it's formed from. Little people...like these folks.

Take the case of Kenneth Wright of Stockton, Calif., who was “visited” by a SWAT team from the U.S. Department of Education in June 2011. Agents battered down the door of his home at 6 a.m., dragged him outside in his boxer shorts, and handcuffed him as they put his three children (ages 3, 7, and 11) in a police car for two hours while they searched his home. The raid was allegedly intended to uncover information on Wright’s estranged wife, Michelle, who hadn’t been living with him and was suspected of college financial-aid fraud.

I'm as much against Financial Aid fraud as the next guy. More so, since part of my current fees include covering for that loss. However....a friggin SWAT team for a financial fraud issue...and a Department of Education SWAT team? What happened...budget cuts leave them without that invention we call a telephone? Teletypes are old..but surely, EMAIL works in the great land of Washington D.C.? Either could have ordered up Federal Marshals or FBI to assist in law enforcement...instead of adding a hat with guns to a Department SUPPOSEDLY dedicated to education, not incarceration. Blurry lines...indeed.

The year before the raid on Wright, a SWAT team from the Food and Drug Administration raided the farm of Dan Allgyer of Lancaster, Pa. His crime was shipping unpasteurized milk across state lines to a cooperative of young women with children in Washington, D.C., called Grass Fed on the Hill. Raw milk can be sold in Pennsylvania, but it is illegal to transport it across state lines. The raid forced Allgyer to close down his business.

Source

Damn the torpedoes, lock and load the M-4's and lets go get us some criminals!!! Hey...those evil doers selling milk look good... GET 'EM!!

^^ So I can imagine the sentiments ran to send a paramilitary team with weapons of war to enforce a law over.....milk sales. Have we NO sense of proportion any longer? Is milk now the same as 1st degree capital murder in response for felony arrest?



My God, on this Easter day, what have we become as a nation?

Where are we going next?

Can we endure much more of this before losing all we have been and all we ever sought to become?

I have a very good friend who is a Federal Agent.

I can assure you they are just as fed up as we are.

Funny thing is, most agents are conservative leaning.

I think we just need a Leader. A true American with a Birth Certificate.

Somebody that will change this current path we are on.

I don't fear LE. They are not the problem. I fear our greedy leaders.

They will stop at nothing to get theirs. Time to unite on one thing.

If they are in Office right now...They are the problem.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

My God, on this Easter day, what have we become as a nation?

Can we endure much more of this before losing all we have been and all we ever sought to become?

Remember back when the cop departments argued they needed SWAT because all the drug dealers were armed better than the cop? That was 99% a lie.

I look forward to the day we see citizens "Stand their ground" against the SWATerrorist that have grown into just another strike force used to control the population.

a reply to: whyamIhere

I have a question for you... How old is your friend in terms of generational position? I'm finding something interesting, the more time passes and I watch this all closer.... The older cops and feds seem more level headed and concerned with doing a job to get home every night. The young bucks and mavericks seem to have everything to prove to the world at gunpoint, and as often as they can manage the chance to prove it.

Aside from the asinine situation of the Dept. of Education having a special weapons team along side the FDA, I do wonder if it is something of changing times to changing generations moving in to take up. The new generations being the simple product of very different times to grow up in, and hence, a whole different kind of cop for those who go that path?

Whatcha think?

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Happy Easter Wrabbit.

At least we still live in a society, were I'm allowed to say that to you. The way things are going, that may not be the case in the not so distant future.

All I see around me, is more of what I was raised to believe as my rights, being stripped away. More of what used to be the norm, as in being able to pledge allegiance to the Flag, the symbol of our once Great Nation, being portrayed as evil in some way. More of the honor of hard work, and being honest as a person, being laughed at, and frowned upon as old fashioned thinking.

When we the people, are stripped of the basics of what makes us a Free Peoples, we loose some of our humanity. We are seen as less than full human beings. Then we are treated as less than human. That is what I see happening now.

We are no longer viewed as people to be treated with respect, as a fellow human being. We are no better than animals to be herded, and treated in the most vile manners, by those that get off on bullying.

Yes, I said that...bullying. We are no longer ruled by just laws. We are bullied into submission, by those bloated on power.

Those that continue to write unjust laws to further their own agendas. I don't know how we are going to pull ourselves out of this downward spiral. Push comes to shove in the most curious ways. As the Bundy ranch fiasco is proving to show.

Do I feel we are at a juncture in what direction our Country will go in. I do. How will it happen? One voice at a time, joining together to yell loud enough...enough is enough. It will be dangerous times, for those on both sides of the line.

Des

a reply to: Bassago

After what I got done reading last night? No... I have NO desire in this world to see citizens commit suicide en masse and with NO hope of anything buy dying badly.

I had NO idea that Posse Comitatus was basically null, void and the punch line to a joke by Exec orders and other changes which came largely since about 1999. Use of military forces for law enforcement and restoration of public order *OR* to allow civil authority to enforce the laws (that's the kicker for Nevada, for instance) aren't just ONE E.O. or one regulatory change. It's many of them, stacked to build off each other and ending with "If the President orders it, they shall be told to move and told why..later..maybe".

It's yet to be done that way, and our entire nation changes in the span of minutes, forever, the moment it IS used that way. However, I fell into bed heart sick and depressed this morning...after realizing by statute, the ONLY reason the protesters didn't see Apache Gunships come up the river at Mesquite was the political cost of ordering them to do it. There is absolutely, at this point, nothing in federal law to have prevented a phone call to Nellis with orders to erase the protest problem on the basis it created obstruction to effective enforcement of federal law.

^^ That last line...to meet the legalese B.S. of the statutes that now define the process for it.

I'd invite anyone to go hunt up the same things to see the same series of Federal code changes, E.O.'s and Congressional 'slip-ins' over 15 years to bring us to this point.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

He just turned 50.

His job is so sensitive he would not want me to post it.

I grew up around LE. All the officers I know hate this current Administration.

It doesn't seem to be split be age. It doesn't seem to be split at all.

They are all American's first....LE is just their profession.

a reply to: whyamIhere

I hear ya...and just as well for not adding detail. I was just curious about the generation thing.

I'm often told the cops I know and the cops I grew up around for seeing law enforcement as something other than 'mindless monsters' are special exceptions or just not how it is elsewhere. I'll agree in so far as, no cops I know personally could taze a man to death while he posed no threat at all. They wouldn't beat a homeless man to death on a cold concrete walkway in Fullerton, California because they were annoyed...and the one's I've spent time with, I can feel certain, would not kick doors to physically terrorize and abuse people as standard procedure to first contact on milk raids or chasing a bad student loan.

So..I figure there has to be something common between that % of cops who are more criminals with badges and, I believe, DO form a small but dangerous % of the whole ...and the majority of cops like those I know, who want nothing more in at the start of a shift than to go home at the end of it, with all pieces intact and nothing broken.

There is quite a range these days.

a reply to: Destinyone

We are no better than animals to be herded, and treated in the most vile manners, by those that get off on bullying.

You are absolutely correct. Two of my kids work for the state and they were telling me about their "SWAT" units. Those guys are so arrogant and self entitled it's unbelievable. They are also feared within the departments themselves. Can you imagine having a team at work that everyone else is afraid of?

It's time this insanity was ended.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

This was the part from your source that really set off my tyranny radar........

The number of raids conducted by local police SWAT teams has gone from 3,000 a year in the 1980s to over 50,000 a year today.

WOW!!!

a reply to: Bassago

They are also feared within the departments themselves. Can you imagine having a team at work that everyone else is afraid of?

Yes... I can, actually. I don't even require imagination. I just have to think back to a lecture I listened to years back. It was delivered by a German who had been a card carrying member of 'The Party' back when that only had one meaning for that nation.

What never left me from that lecture was the simple statement, delivered like a self evident truth. Even the Nazis lived in fear of the Nazis...and fear to control was a tool worn by daily use at all levels.

If I were a conspiracy minded guy...I might say history was trying to tell us something about repeats and re-runs it tends to run in.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Wrabbit, you nailed it on the head. We have a Federal Government that is absolutely out of control. The reason is, in my opinion, they have screwed up so bad financially that they don't know what to do to get out of it except tax and fee or fine us to total destruction. People talk about the $20 Trillion debt that will be there monetarily. And I have sedom heard people talk about the $282 Trillion in Unfunded Liabilities. Besides the already high taxes, Obama's administration submitted a budget with something lik $1.9 Trillion in NEW TAXES!

The people can't afford these taxes and keep their companies afloat, and will have to cut back drastically on jobs and everyday household spending. Add a strong dose of INFLATION and we are dead in the water. Among all of this, the governments only idea is to bring in more revenue and spend more money. I could go on for hours on things the federal government is doing that is against the constitution.

And something recently that reared it's ugly head for the first time is this "No Constitution Zone 100miles from any national border. That makes me in Florida in a Constitution Free Zone. And we have seen their idea of a "Free Speech Zone" is a little taped off area far from where it would be effective. Absolutely BS and the biggest lie trying to be perpetrated on the American people is this Constitution Free Zone and only little places where you can exercise your RIGHT to Free Speech. I don't know who's brain damaged government employee though that would fly, but the entire US is under the constitution. Not Zones where it doesn't apply, etc.

Add to that the Presidents right to kill Americans with no DUE PROCESS, is totally Unconstitutional. That law is dead on arrival as it is against the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Folks, the Federal Government has lost its way in the night. And they are not just lost, but without safe harbor in sight, the ship is taking on water rapidly and even the rats are jumping overboard. I don't like writing this because I feel I will become and ENEMY OF THE STATE for pointing out the obvious.

They have realized after the BLM Debacle at the Bundy Ranch that they underestimated just how pissed off the people are. And with 500 million guns in the hands of the American Civilians and militias, they have a real problem. We could field 50 million man Army rather easy. And China and Russia, through 3rd parties, even Iran, and everyone else that has had it with the US would be smuggling in crates of anti-aircraft and anti-armor shoulder launched missiles along with full automatic heavy machine guns and ammunition, along with military advisers. We already have Military Advisers. All the retired Marines, Army, Spec Ops, etc., many of whom are already in the militias.

They have pushed the people into a corner. Sure, there are a lot of folks that are comfortable and not yet ready to get that serious. But, the thing is, it is starting to slide. This BLM thing said a lot. The government needed to reevaluate the situation before they ended up looking bad and dead and started a war they don't want. They want control. They don't want to lose control and if they keep it up, that is exactly what is going to happen. I have spoke with many active duty as well as law enforcement that will jump over to the side of their fellow citizens, family, friends, etc,. In other words, THEIR PEOPLE. That is who they have been fighting for the last 200 years. And we all swore to protect the United States from all enemies FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC!

Well, it doesn't take a genius to see that the constitution has been shredded and they constantly talk about defending it, but the legislature & executive, are not by any means following it. The Judicial is highly suspect as well. It is one heck of a mess now. We almost have to start over to clear things up so we can start over. Many laws are needed, but the Federal Government must defer to the states where their power is not expressly given to them in the constitution. The federal government has twisted and turned those documents inside out and upside down. Until the people stand up and say enough is enough, it will only get worse. It is about to pop off one day and we have to be ready to stand shoulder to shoulder with our patriots. The tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood of patriots from time to time. I hope you are ready and not just full of hot air talking on an internet forum.

I can see where they would have serious concerns about the raw milk...if they thought Richard Pryor's standup was serious.

"Let me tell you what really happened... Every night before I go to bed, I have milk and cookies. One night I mixed some low-fat milk and some pasteurized, then I dipped my cookie in and the sh#t blew up."

originally posted by: Bassago
a reply to: Destinyone

We are no better than animals to be herded, and treated in the most vile manners, by those that get off on bullying.

You are absolutely correct. Two of my kids work for the state and they were telling me about their "SWAT" units. Those guys are so arrogant and self entitled it's unbelievable. They are also feared within the departments themselves. Can you imagine having a team at work that everyone else is afraid of?

It's time this insanity was ended.

You are also correct.

It doesn't help that the Cop Reality shows so prevalent today, show them being ever more aggressive towards people, for no reason whatsoever. It's like we are being programmed to accept being man handled from the moment we come in contact with LEO. Throwing Women and Old people to the ground placing them in cuffs for no legal reason is now for some reason, acceptable. Why is that? I used to, a long time ago, watch those cop shows, I won't now. I won't be part of the viewing audience that gives them the ratings they need to be lucrative.

It's like a lot of cops in general, are trying to out do each other too. I can see getting on a SWATT Team would be a huge ego charge for some of them. They aren't LEO anymore...just goons who bully people into submission.

Des

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

At the rate it's going ,Americans will have to become machines with flesh and blood in order to survive .A machine without the ability to ask any questions and think that having a feeling is some how contrary to survival .Surely tptb know that it will come to a head but don't care ....I have never really fancied living in the states because of that strange element of patriotism to the flag .It actually scared me in a way ...I live in the most boring and quiet place in North america and figure it will never get as bad as what we are witnessing in the states .In fact the states wont be states unless they start turning back the clock to destruction soon .

a reply to: Wrabbit2000
From your link:

Since 9/11, the feds have issued a plethora of homeland-security grants that encourage local police departments to buy surplus military hardware and form their own SWAT units. By 2005, at least 80 percent of towns with a population between 25,000 and 50,000 people had their own SWAT team. The number of raids conducted by local police SWAT teams has gone from 3,000 a year in the 1980s to over 50,000 a year today.

I have read from different sources the number of the raids are more like 80,000 a year. Classic example of if you got it you gotta use it. Where is all this going ? Why was the trip started to begin with ? Where will it all lead ? I dunno but I darn sure do not like reading about abuse, wrong addresses, dead cats and dogs from some of America's supposedly toughest who are armed to the teeth yet can't seem to recognize a real life and death situation from a dog happy to see them...


Off topic:






When NASA started sending astronauts into space, they quickly discovered that ball-point pens would not work in zero gravity. To combat this problem, NASA scientists spent a decade and $12 million developing a pen that writes in zero gravity, upside-down, on almost any surface including glass and at temperatures ranging from below freezing to over 300° C.

The Russians used a pencil !

12 million developing an ink pen that would write in zero gravity ? The Russians just used pencils... Just about everything some U.S. government agency does is several bricks short of a load of common sense.

a reply to: 727Sky No need to go into the waste of time effort and money the Govt's. waste . I used to by what was called Crown assets disposal operations .You could literally buy a million dollars worth of stuff for like 50 bucks .I had one friend that was sending all the military hardware off to Iran and making a mint on the stuff .That was years ago .I have no idea how all that is handled now ...

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: 727Sky No need to go into the waste of time effort and money the Govt's. waste . I used to by what was called Crown assets disposal operations .You could literally buy a million dollars worth of stuff for like 50 bucks .I had one friend that was sending all the military hardware off to Iran and making a mint on the stuff .That was years ago .I have no idea how all that is handled now ...

Your friend would be an a high alert terrorist watch list, now. Classified as a dangerous arms dealer.

Unfortunately, regular sporting goods stores, are now also being included in those lists.

Times they are a-changin'. And not for the better, I fear.

Des

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I graduated with a degree in Law Enforcement Police Science a ways back. Never got hired on with a department because I had the old attitude of protect and serve not beat to a pulp and this was in the 90's. Now days, I know the routine, had the training, in some casses more than they had and I just try to deal with the situation if I get stopped and go about my business.

I do wonder though, why almost every federal agency needs a SWAT team? We have a LE body for that and local PD will assist when needed.

I must say it seems pretty scary to live in the US nowadays. They're turning on their own citizens... Wow.

The US waged war to many nations since it's inception, now they are waging it on YOU.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

Good luck