Bundy Ranch exposes America's political lunacy!

So the Bundy Ranch thing really exposed the American political lunacy to perfection.

Most people that you would talk to don't understand the underlying issue of land use, grazing rights, the legal battle etc. And really none of that is important.

The issue was that the BLM/Federal Government used heavy handed law enforcement policies and people don't like it ...from deploying snipers, being heavily armed, throwing women to the ground etc. The same thing happened with the Occupy movement and protests and are happening in Albuquerque. The issue is that America is becoming a police state and we don't like those bully tactics and our police officers kill/attack first protect the peace second.

Now you have most left wing publications calling this a right wing militia fanatical movement that is laughable. you have Harry Reid calling these people domestic terrorists and we have ample evidence of how heavily armed these BLM thugs were. I can't even stand it. On most issues, I do lean toward the left but not on standing up to police brutality. I think the militia should have gone there and I think it was the right thing to do. But the media is twisting this around. The left wing media! They are making me sick. If this was an occupy protest it would be different, but why? Why can't left and right stand together to stop America's police state? Why? It just makes me sick. But wait, I can't just jump on the right wing band wagon either because there are complete morons like Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, to name just three, sitting there trying to destroy America as well.

That's our lunacy. That we will be forever divided, no matter what happens. Police brutality and standing up against the police state should be a left and right issue that can bring this country together for some real change but...nope.

This makes me sick,

When will we actually grow up and see that we are being played for fools?

What I never understood was how the American people didn't bat an eyelash when their government handed over 7+ trillion in taxpayer dollars to a bunch of bankers and plutocrats but were locked and loaded for some rancher in nevada who didn't cross all his T's and dot all his i's. Perplexing.

a reply to: DeadSeraph

I believe the Tea Party movement was created because of the bailout. Then enter the mainstream media character assassination squad and it became hard to over come all the propaganda and infiltration.

a reply to: amazing

because; its like someone not paying their parking tickets; for 20 years, then pulling a gun and getting an armed mob together when the DMV comes to impound their car; which they still haven't moved. then screaming that the DMV brough armed personell/police in response.

Frankly I'm surprised that the right wing is defending this welfare queen bundy, but of course; any time it's a redneck it must be overuse of force or heavy-handed.

>left wing protesters getting peppersprayed, tasered, and beaten by cops(armed as well; rubber bullet, tear gas; possibly live ammo; A-OK! (after being surrounded by riot police, and cornered in a park that kinda removes the whole original purpose the movement had)

>right wing protesters(with guns) having to contend with armed government personel saying some harsh words(after having 20 years to comply with a court-ruling, and failing to do so); WHAT AN OUTRAGE!!! OBAMA MUST HAVE A PERSONAL AGENDA! RUSH LIMBAUGH AND/OR (other right-wing pundits/commentators/huxters) TOLD ME SO! I BET HARRY REID IS ALL BEHIND IT; HE'S LIBERAL AFTER ALL;(so say the pundits) AND DESPITE THE WHOLE SOLAR ENERGY-PLANT NOT HAVING ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS; THE MERE INVOLVEMENT OF REID IN THE GENERAL AREA OF THIS SOMEHOW MEANS HE HAS A PERSONAL GRUDGE AGAINST BUNDY!!!!



get over yourself reactionaries;

a reply to: amazing

Someone here (on ATS) stated that there is going to be a meme coming that'll paint Bundy and his supporters as domestic terrorists and criminals.

Once the threshold of American people start buying this, the federal government will once again, step in and brutally destroy what they started.

That would all be interesting, if it were true.

This is a story about a rich rancher who has been grazing his cattle for free and not paying his bills. This arrogant ass is grazing his commercial herd on Federal Land and refusing to pay his bills.

Follow the money. Or in this case watch it sit there in his bank account rather than paying his bills.

a reply to: Leonidas


Na, its about the government going into the cow grass business and threating to kill anyone that wont pay the bill.

a reply to: amazing

The issue is that America is becoming a police state and we don't like those bully tactics and our police officers kill/attack first protect the peace second.

Well, what Harry Reid has done, by calling theses people who were only standing up for their rights 'Domestic Terrorists', has probably put them on a watch-list now
Or at least on the IRS hit list

Next time, and there will be one, whenever the public stands up for what they believe is wrong-doing by our dear beloved government, they maybe a little more hesitant to speak out, for fear of being called that name


And now -- thanks to 9/11-- all the laws implemented after that tragedy, starting with Bush and now Obama, has put labels on people that maybe deemed a threat, all in the name of terrorists


What will that eventually mean one day??
That people will be SILENCED into submission
Out of fear....not wanting to get involved and bring the law down on them

Oh yes, they'll always be some renegades but for the majority, they won't want to rock the boat, so to speak



And now that I've used several trigger key words, I'll be waiting for the MIB to knock on my door. LOL



Oh and I would like to add....this is NOT a left/right issue...but an American issue
Our freedom of speech is on the line here

People are as mad as I have ever seen them.

We are all sick and tired of being spied on and attacked by our own Government.

Nobody gives a damn about Bundy.

Even a member of the Supreme Court encouraged us to protest.

This is just the beginning...Non violent protest is our duty.

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Leonidas


Na, its about the government going into the cow grass business and threating to kill anyone that wont pay the bill.

I can only guess you are kidding, or aren't from the West. Grazing cattle on Federal Land is a regular thing. It is also incredibly cheap. We are talking about a commercial herd that he owns to make a profit on. Ranchers pay to graze their cattle.

This guy is not paying his bill. Period.

a reply to: Leonidas


The thing is, if some guy doesn't want to pay me I cant kill him. Its illegal. Besides, the grass is so crappy out there I couldn't possibly charge anyone for it and stay in the good graces of the almighty or anyone else. Not to mention shoot someone over it.

originally posted by: Leonidas
That would all be interesting, if it were true.

This is a story about a rich rancher who has been grazing his cattle for free and not paying his bills. This arrogant ass is grazing his commercial herd on Federal Land and refusing to pay his bills.

Follow the money. Or in this case watch it sit there in his bank account rather than paying his bills.

What bills ?

His grazing permits were cancelled, sold to another agency and then the cancelled permits were cancelled again.

How can he pay for something that was cancelled ?

And neither agencies would accept payments offered after the permits were cancelled.

The grazing permit issue is more confusing than ObamaCare cancellations.

The confusion is over the cattle not being able to distinguish Bundy's land from Federal land.

The BLM has made one error after another with this.

The courts took at least 3 or 4 cases to even get the orders right.

No wonder Bundy is "Fed" up with the whole thing.

The whole issue is confusing.

It is a really easy issue to follow. I will give you guys a pass on this because you aren't ranchers or family of ranchers. Ask any of them about paying for Grazing Rights.

This is a very simple issue. Rich rancher won't pay his bill.

The lack of understanding of what actually happened that the people who call Bundy a "Freeloader" display are quite frankly the fundamental problem with America.

They use snippets of what they hear on MSM and read in MSM publications and without any due diligence of their own, label and convict somebody without having done any of the research themselves.

America is disheveled and tyrannical less because of an abusive, overreaching and violent government but more because of a lazy, idealistic and ignorant population as it's majority.

If we want to be heard through peaceful protest then we need to make a statement... Some people say that the million man march was a statement..... I think fed up American's could cripple that figure at our Nation's capital... Who will lead this charge, Alex Jones? Just kidding... But seriously, peaceful protests need to be led by someone, someone with a voice, someone who isn't scared to stand up to the tyranny, someone who is hopefully recognizable and respected.... Man, I hope this snowballs into some good for us all, because the system we have in place here is obviously broken, and when something is broken, it needs to be fixed...

My understanding of it is just the basic facts. A rather successful company didn't want to pay grazing fees for the federal land the grazing was happening on...also there was some areas that was cordoned off by the epa as protected land for some sort of turtle.
I have trouble feeling bad for someone who simply doesn't want to pay a established fee of 30 years because they simply don't want to...and considering they were talking about shooting first, last stand stuff to the media, I am not surprised the feds armed up and prepared for trouble (are feds not supposed to take threats of violence seriously?)

I understand the spin doctors trying to suggest this is all about freedom and stuff, but to the ranchers..it isn't. it is about trying to pinch pennies as it has been for 20 years for them...this is just the latest tactic..get the flag wavers to make a big deal about it....and it worked. so, props to them for knowing how to play the public..but its only a temporary fix. The Fed will get their money in the end.

originally posted by: NonsensicalUserName
a reply to: amazing

because; its like someone not paying their parking tickets; for 20 years, then pulling a gun and getting an armed mob together when the DMV comes to impound their car; which they still haven't moved. then screaming that the DMV brough armed personell/police in response.

Frankly I'm surprised that the right wing is defending this welfare queen bundy, but of course; any time it's a redneck it must be overuse of force or heavy-handed.

>left wing protesters getting peppersprayed, tasered, and beaten by cops(armed as well; rubber bullet, tear gas; possibly live ammo; A-OK! (after being surrounded by riot police, and cornered in a park that kinda removes the whole original purpose the movement had)

>right wing protesters(with guns) having to contend with armed government personel saying some harsh words(after having 20 years to comply with a court-ruling, and failing to do so); WHAT AN OUTRAGE!!! OBAMA MUST HAVE A PERSONAL AGENDA! RUSH LIMBAUGH AND/OR (other right-wing pundits/commentators/huxters) TOLD ME SO! I BET HARRY REID IS ALL BEHIND IT; HE'S LIBERAL AFTER ALL;(so say the pundits) AND DESPITE THE WHOLE SOLAR ENERGY-PLANT NOT HAVING ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS; THE MERE INVOLVEMENT OF REID IN THE GENERAL AREA OF THIS SOMEHOW MEANS HE HAS A PERSONAL GRUDGE AGAINST BUNDY!!!!

get over yourself reactionaries;

Maybe if the left wing protesters had guns they might have made the cops think twice too.

a reply to: rockintitz

nah; that would really end badly actually; for everyone; urban enviroment, greater number of left-wing protesters in a smaller space, had they been armed it could very well come accross as an attempted left-wing terror attack on america's financial elite.

>basically picture in a realistic sense the outcome of "Occupy Wallstreet" protesters bringing a lot of semi-automatic rifles and constructing barricades (like Les Meserables was released a few years ealier,inspiring a sense of a sort of revolutionary spirit), establishing the commune of Manhattan or something to that effect. before it obviously gets crushed by national guardsmen, swat team, homeland security, etc etc.

but that's the subject for an alt-history novel.

originally posted by: amazing
So the Bundy Ranch thing really exposed the American political lunacy to perfection.

Most people that you would talk to don't understand the underlying issue of land use, grazing rights, the legal battle etc. And really none of that is important.

The issue was that the BLM/Federal Government used heavy handed law enforcement policies and people don't like it ...from deploying snipers, being heavily armed, throwing women to the ground etc. The same thing happened with the Occupy movement and protests and are happening in Albuquerque. The issue is that America is becoming a police state and we don't like those bully tactics and our police officers kill/attack first protect the peace second.

Now you have most left wing publications calling this a right wing militia fanatical movement that is laughable. you have Harry Reid calling these people domestic terrorists and we have ample evidence of how heavily armed these BLM thugs were. I can't even stand it. On most issues, I do lean toward the left but not on standing up to police brutality. I think the militia should have gone there and I think it was the right thing to do. But the media is twisting this around. The left wing media! They are making me sick. .

That's our lunacy. That we will be forever divided, no matter what happens. Police brutality and standing up against the police state should be a left and right issue that can bring this country together for some real change but...nope.

This makes me sick,

When will we actually grow up and see that we are being played for fools?

I agree with you. Just one thing I find rather odd with Americans (of which I am not) is that Americans talk about left and right when to my way of thinking and observations over many decades, both of your political parties are on the same side of the fence which is the right. IMO America does not have a left wing political party and never has.

cheers