NZ winning the war on meningitis

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: chr0naut

Like what? Chemicals added to water? Violence? Being reliant on others? Banned guns? People that bow to authority?

Oh, I see you are in NZ, maybe different from here. I hardly see what your problem is, seeing as how I will never come in contact with disease spreaders. We had an "epidemic" after some new doctors came here and started psychological warfare with people that chose not to vaccinate. Low and behold after they started pushing flu vaccines, people started getting the flu and dieing. Funny coincidence. The year I took the shot, I was sicker in that one year, than I was in the previous 5 years, and the few years following it. Yeah, I am skeptical of vaccines now.

I don't know if you are aware of this but one person in every ten carries the Neisseria Meningitidis bacteria without symptoms.

Bacterial not viral, but you can see how funny it is for NZ 'doctors' to say they will eliminate bacterial meningitis in NZ in a few years by administering untested viral meningitis vaccinations.

a reply to: BDBinc

Go any evidence that the vaccine is "untested"?

Because according to the data in the vaccines linked through NZ Ministry of Health Vaccine info page they all went through clinical trials that are detailed in their individual documents.

The article says they are hoping to reduce its incidence to that of a "rare disease" - how do you get "eliminate it" from that?

Did you not understand that "rare" means reducing the incidence - not eliminating??

Perhaps you could explain how you arrived at your conclusions a little more clearly, providing some evidence to support them??

tvnz.co.nz... -nz-end-year-5936504a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Theres proof x2 .Why are they saying"Doctors say meningitis could be almost entirely eliminated in New Zealand as early as the end of the year."
As I told you there are many false claims in this bag of sh* t.
Reporting 20 less cases a year and they are "winning" and will eliminate meningitis by the end of the year I think not.

originally posted by: BDBinc

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: chr0naut

Like what? Chemicals added to water? Violence? Being reliant on others? Banned guns? People that bow to authority?

Oh, I see you are in NZ, maybe different from here. I hardly see what your problem is, seeing as how I will never come in contact with disease spreaders. We had an "epidemic" after some new doctors came here and started psychological warfare with people that chose not to vaccinate. Low and behold after they started pushing flu vaccines, people started getting the flu and dieing. Funny coincidence. The year I took the shot, I was sicker in that one year, than I was in the previous 5 years, and the few years following it. Yeah, I am skeptical of vaccines now.

I don't know if you are aware of this but one person in every ten carries the Neisseria Meningitidis bacteria without symptoms.

Bacterial not viral, but you can see how funny it is for NZ 'doctors' to say they will eliminate bacterial meningitis in NZ in a few years by administering untested viral meningitis vaccinations.

OK, bacteria grows on stuff. In the case of Meningitidis, it grows on human mucous membranes. It doesn't seem to have any other transmission vectors other than human mucosa.

Suppose someone who is a carrier (asymptomatic) sneezes or coughs somewhere near you in the farmers market, because there's a lot of soil & dust produced when one tips some potato's out of a sack. They have just "aerosolized" some mucous tissue and this aerosol can stay in the air for a minute and travel several yards. Then you walk through this invisible cloud, breathing in, and with no idea that you just inhaled Meningococcal.

Unless you were one of the lucky ones who are carriers, or had an immune system that recognized and killed the bacteria, you would be at risk.

So an immunization against a deadly disease might actually be a good idea, even if it may make you feel out-of-sorts for a bit.

In fact, even if it outright killed one in ten million people who have taken the immunization (there are no indications that it does), then that is a much safer thing for the entire human community than to let the disease go unchecked, and which would kill many more.

But just consider that the person who sneezed/coughed had been immunized. They would not carry the disease as their immune response, trained in by the immunization, would kill it. So they couldn't pass it on. And if you were immunized too, you would neither be as susceptible, nor a carrier either.

With no incubators of the disease, the bacteria would essentially die out (as did some diseases, all but eradicated after immunization campaigns).

In the light of this, your decision to avoid immunization is not victimless and is morally wrong. It is actively preventing the elimination of a curable fatal disease.

The reason you were unwell when you were immunized previously was that your body went on the warpath against the inactivated pathogen, just as if it were live. You may have felt rotten, but you would survive, as would everyone else who was immunized. The strength of your immune response may indicate that you would have been highly prone to the real thing, and remember that the real thing sometimes kills, especially those whose immune responses are already compromized.

Please reconsider your desicion to abstain from immunization. It is not heroic.

originally posted by: BDBinc
tvnz.co.nz... -nz-end-year-5936504a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Theres proof x2 .Why are they saying"Doctors say meningitis could be almost entirely eliminated in New Zealand as early as the end of the year."
As I told you there are many false claims in this bag of sh* t.
Reporting 20 less cases a year and they are "winning" and will eliminate meningitis by the end of the year I think not.

"Almost entirely" is not the same as "entirely" nor is it a claim they have or will eliminate it.

Why do the research and then report it wrong??

originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul

originally posted by: BDBinc
tvnz.co.nz... -nz-end-year-5936504a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Theres proof x2 .Why are they saying"Doctors say meningitis could be almost entirely eliminated in New Zealand as early as the end of the year."
As I told you there are many false claims in this bag of sh* t.
Reporting 20 less cases a year and they are "winning" and will eliminate meningitis by the end of the year I think not.

"Almost entirely" is not the same as "entirely" nor is it a claim they have or will eliminate it.

No, why they must have meant to tell the public something else they wanted sheeple to take the words they used as to infer something quite entirely different. Politicians often do that(we the people call it lying).

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: TKDRL
Congrats. Personally I don't care, as long as it's not forced. I choose not to take any vaccinations, I don't begrudge anyone that chooses to take them. Their body and life, their choice.

We'll never wipe out preventable diseases while there are incubators such as yourself still about.

Thankfully, in the long view of history, fatal diseases are self curing.

(and yes, myself and my family are fully innoculated and thriving in NZ.)

I don't know why you point the finger only at people that choose not to vaccinate. Look at your own country's statistics on the B. pertussis vaccine (whooping cough). The vaccine itself does not prevent the disease, nor the spread of the disease; only the symptoms.

In a study done in New Zealand, as well as others done in Australia and the USA, of the cases reported for whooping cough caused by B. pertussis bacteria, overwhelming the highest afflicted were the fully vaccinated children, with partially vaccinated and unvaccinated following (in respective order).

So no, unvaccinated people are not always the incubators. Sometimes it's the people that rely in #ty vaccines like the aP vaccine for whooping cough that are actually the incubators.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: TKDRL
Congrats. Personally I don't care, as long as it's not forced. I choose not to take any vaccinations, I don't begrudge anyone that chooses to take them. Their body and life, their choice.

We'll never wipe out preventable diseases while there are incubators such as yourself still about.

Thankfully, in the long view of history, fatal diseases are self curing.

(and yes, myself and my family are fully innoculated and thriving in NZ.)

if you are vaccinated whats your worry again?

originally posted by: Kroovistos

In a study done in New Zealand, as well as others done in Australia and the USA, of the cases reported for whooping cough caused by B. pertussis bacteria, overwhelming the highest afflicted were the fully vaccinated children, with partially vaccinated and unvaccinated following (in respective order).

Can you provide a link to that study?

Because hte only study that supposedly gives that result that I am aware of is by Joe Mercola - and his "study" is a pack of drivel (link contains links to his original documents as well as the debunking thereof)

So no, unvaccinated people are not always the incubators. Sometimes it's the people that rely in #ty vaccines like the aP vaccine for whooping cough that are actually the incubators.

Indeed - however fewer of them, and fewer of them develop the disease, and if everyone around them is also vaccinated then it just doesn't matter so much who is an "inncubator"

originally posted by: Danbones

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: TKDRL
Congrats. Personally I don't care, as long as it's not forced. I choose not to take any vaccinations, I don't begrudge anyone that chooses to take them. Their body and life, their choice.

We'll never wipe out preventable diseases while there are incubators such as yourself still about.

Thankfully, in the long view of history, fatal diseases are self curing.

(and yes, myself and my family are fully innoculated and thriving in NZ.)

if you are vaccinated whats your worry again?

My worry is that the vaccination does not give a perfect defence against the disease.

Sometimes vaccinated people still get the disease.

It is a game of populations and numbers.

If you reduce the risk there are fewer potential sorces for the disease until you reach a tipping point where low population densities of the pathogen and an absence of viable hosts means that the disease effectively dies out.

a reply to: BDBinc

Hmm, *something goes "click" in my brain...

Seems we are getting an elevated number of these good news stories in New Zealand at the moment.

Could we be having an election this year? Seems like the bureaucrats and their medical industry cronies are trying to muster favour with Key and his clique.

Clearly, certain medical professionals desire a fully or increasingly privatised health sector in NZ. Plus, medical research companies want kickbacks for political favours, like special consideration for their drugs by state authorities, TPPA agreement, marketing of drugs rules, continuance of GP-BigPharma marketing and payment schemes, continued state purchasing of failed drugs, Public Private Partnerships, etc. etc. They are very much more likely to get their corrupt ways than if Labour wins power.

Just my opinion though...

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Sure. Here's a link to the .pdf for the Journal of Theoretical Biology covering the study in New Zealand:
eprints.maths.ox.ac.uk...

And an excerpt:
"The obtained figures indicate that in New Zealand the effective vaccination rate against pertussis is lower than 50%, and perhaps even as low as 33% of the population. These figures contradict the medical statistics which claim that more than 80% of the newborns in New Zealand are vaccinated against pertussis (Turner et al., 2000). This contradiction is due to the mentioned unreliability of the available vaccine. The fact that the fraction of immune population obtained here is considerably lower than the fraction of vaccinated population implies a high level of vaccination failure."

A study in Israel about the effectiveness of the vaccine and how vaccinated children and adults can still gain the infection and spread the disease while remaining asymptomatic:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Excerpt:
"We tested 46 fully vaccinated children in two day-care centers in Israel who were exposed to a fatal case of pertussis infection. Only two of five children who tested positive for Bordetella pertussis met the World Health Organization’s case definition for pertussis. Vaccinated children may be asymptomatic reservoirs for infection.

Vaccinated adolescents and adults may serve as reservoirs for silent infection and become potential transmitters to unprotected infants (3-11). The whole-cell vaccine for pertussis is protective only against clinical disease, not against infection (15-17). Therefore, even young, recently vaccinated children may serve as reservoirs and potential transmitters of infection."

An Australian study on all cases of whooping cough caused by B. pertussis over a three year period, showing that the vaccinated children suffered the most causes of whooping cough compared to partially-vaccinated and non-vaccinated children:


And finally, the CDC's report on cases of whooping cough from 1959 - 2011. As of 2011 we are nearing early 1960's levels of outbreak despite vaccinations:
www.cdc.gov...&deaths.pdf