Off-The-Grid Lottery... Who can help?

So I was thinking of ways we could encourage self-sufficiency and off-grid living... And I think a lottery could be a really cool way to do it... I'm thinking of it like a "60 minute makeover" type deal too, so that the installations are filmed and the technology discussed. It would also raise awareness for the lottery and so therefore raise adoption...

Imagine winning the chance to be energy independent! Free of bills! (Mostly lol)

You would need a team of experts that were willing to oversee the installations and such but I think in this field there would be plenty to come forward.

Maybe source the materials direct to cut out the middlemen and help as many people to get off the grid as possible.

So what I propose is a wee brainstorming session to lay down some costs and projections, see how plausible it is and how many people could get the installation per week etc.

Is anyone game for helping out? Just as a bit of fun for now really...

A great idea, but I noticed tptb are already putting laws in place to TAX those who go off grid. Maybe we should get that problem sorted out too?

originally posted by: VoidHawk
A great idea, but I noticed tptb are already putting laws in place to TAX those who go off grid. Maybe we should get that problem sorted out too?

Ha yeah, I noticed that too... I'm not sure too much can be done about the mafia and their demands to be honest, not just yet anyway. But from what I gather it is for people that are connected to the grid, because they claim it for the infrastructure. So with the lottery installations they will be fully off grid, battery packs, the lot... electric car etc...


EDIT: Another idea I had was to leave an option for a local hook up, so that if you wished you could hook up with your neighbours to share the resources or something like that, in effect making our own local grids! Lol... I have no idea how that could work though right now.

a reply to: Meee32

Submit your idea to the producers of Reality TV shows. Who knows, you may get a nibble. They would be the only ones to have the contacts, budgets, and resources to pull a lottery of this nature off.

But, then you have the problem of, it's not really off the grid, if people are watching it all happen on TV.

Des

The biggest problem too that is energy consumption and energy management. I did a cost comparison analysis for my alternative energy class. The paper was actually for the technical writing class, comparing what it would cost to go off grid vs. not. It was based on not changing any of our household energy use habits. Just off a years worth of energy bills and the solar array required to maintain that.

Obviously any off grid home is not going to do that. Many people might not understand that.

I think the best option if available is a grid tie system. Here in MI you cant sell your excess power back but can run your meter backwards to obtain a 0 energy bill. Can't remember if you would get credit or not. Been a few years.

If a home has access to the power grid, that is the cheapest way to get energy. Hands down.

Going "off grid" is more of a lifestyle and mentality than just thinking you can throw up some solar panels and be done. If you plan to retrofit a house you have big problems. If you plan on including a new house or require a new house in your lottery that could be better.

I think my cost study came out to around $135000 with battery back up. I cant recall the size of the array needed but it was huge. Again that was under the premise of 0 energy Mgt. Not changing anything about our energy use.

I also feel the lottery should be more of a tumbola where names are pulled out of the hat, so you could put your name in more than once like but it would do away with rollovers and such as they aren't needed in this case... I think you would be looking at £100,000 per installation. So if you sell a million tickets roughly 10 homes get converted.

originally posted by: Destinyone
a reply to: Meee32

Submit your idea to the producers of Reality TV shows. Who knows, you may get a nibble. They would be the only ones to have the contacts, budgets, and resources to pull a lottery of this nature off.

But, then you have the problem of, it's not really off the grid, if people are watching it all happen on TV.

Des

Why would you say that? I mean personally I don't watch TV but it can also be shown on youtube etc... I'd never really thought peoples media habbits reflected on their off grid status. But yeah it can be an online show. However great idea with contacting reality shows or just production companies in general. Thanks

But first I think we need a solid plan to put forth, to give it the best chance of success. So thats where everyone here could help out. I left a comment in jessie venturers off the grid thread too, he could pull this off!

originally posted by: tinner07
The biggest problem too that is energy consumption and energy management. I did a cost comparison analysis for my alternative energy class. The paper was actually for the technical writing class, comparing what it would cost to go off grid vs. not. It was based on not changing any of our household energy use habits. Just off a years worth of energy bills and the solar array required to maintain that.

Obviously any off grid home is not going to do that. Many people might not understand that.

I think the best option if available is a grid tie system. Here in MI you cant sell your excess power back but can run your meter backwards to obtain a 0 energy bill. Can't remember if you would get credit or not. Been a few years.

If a home has access to the power grid, that is the cheapest way to get energy. Hands down.

Hmmm I'm not so sure that is true anymore, as you say it has been a few years and in that time costs have come down a fair bit. And what will the costs be in 25 years time? From the energy companies I mean... I definitely think in the long run you'll save money.

Personally I think it should be fully off grid, it's more than about money anyway, its about self sufficiency and empowerment.


EDIT: Imagine never having to worry about the next hike at the petrol pump again! Never having to worry about the next energy bill increase... It will also help to create some demand in the industry which will help reduce prices further. Not many folks can afford £100,000 layout... But £1 for the chance? Hell I would! I don't play the national lottery but I would play this one for sure.

a reply to: Meee32

It is a worthwhile idea. But, I have to ask you, as a person living partially off the grid myself.

Have you actually priced any of the products that make living off the grid possible? Not cheap I can tell you.

Unless you are planning on scavenging in old junk yards and building a lot of what you'd require yourself. You'll need deep pockets and manufacturers to pull this off. Getting all that is needed donated for a lottery, will take a massive amount of networking to make it worth their while.

Not trying to rain on your parade, just telling you how real life in marketing works.

Des

originally posted by: Destinyone
a reply to: Meee32

It is a worthwhile idea. But, I have to ask you, as a person living partially off the grid myself.

Have you actually priced any of the products that make living off the grid possible? Not cheap I can tell you.

Unless you are planning on scavenging in old junk yards and building a lot of what you'd require yourself. You'll need deep pockets and manufacturers to pull this off. Getting all that is needed donated for a lottery, will take a massive amount of networking to make it worth their while.

Not trying to rain on your parade, just telling you how real life in marketing works.

Des

Yeah I have looked into it somewhat over the years and I reckon £100k would do it, if not no matter as just less homes would get converted. It would be a paid lottery, no need for donations, it would work like any other lottery. Right now the national lottery pays out millions to just 1 or 2 people. I think this would spread it out much better and be more beneficial for everyone. Because even if you don't win you are helping to reduce demand for resources and that should help bring fuel costs down as they need to be more competitive.

Oh and not at all, it's great to have your ideas challenged.


EDIT: I mean as this is a lottery you can go as all out as you like really, providing enough participate. But I'm thinking you could use all sorts of tech here... Rocket mass heaters are inexpensive and can in used for cooking and heating. You could even heat your hot water off them. I know they burn wood but they are super efficient.

But each installation would be different anyway, due to the winners desires and needs.

a reply to: Meee32
Sure it is more about money and I am sure prices have dropped some and efficiency risen. But to go off grid you can't expect to have your tv on, a computer on, lights on, somebody showering and run the vacuum sweeper all at the same time. That is energy Mgt. Off grid you would not do that of course. With a well pump you wouldn't want to flush the toilet evry time somebody peed.

My comparison was based in MI. where we get 4.3 hours sun per day average. Other locations will be different. But it does boil down to money and payback period.

But I will say this, if you have even considered putting solar panels on your home and you don't have an insulation blanket on your water heater, you are an idiot.

I think a better show would be doing actual home energy analysis. Blower door tests. You would be surprised as to how much air infiltration comes into your home and where it comes from.

Or maybe a whole series on energy efficiency of existing homes, solar hot water, the value of caulking, etc... with the end of year grand prize of an off grid system.

A 3 dollar tube of caulk can save you more money than an expensive solar array.

originally posted by: tinner07
a reply to: Meee32
Sure it is more about money and I am sure prices have dropped some and efficiency risen. But to go off grid you can't expect to have your tv on, a computer on, lights on, somebody showering and run the vacuum sweeper all at the same time. That is energy Mgt. Off grid you would not do that of course. With a well pump you wouldn't want to flush the toilet evry time somebody peed.

My comparison was based in MI. where we get 4.3 hours sun per day average. Other locations will be different. But it does boil down to money and payback period.

But I will say this, if you have even considered putting solar panels on your home and you don't have an insulation blanket on your water heater, you are an idiot.

I think a better show would be doing actual home energy analysis. Blower door tests. You would be surprised as to how much air infiltration comes into your home and where it comes from.

Or maybe a whole series on energy efficiency of existing homes, solar hot water, the value of caulking, etc... with the end of year grand prize of an off grid system.

A 3 dollar tube of caulk can save you more money than an expensive solar array.

Yeah sure, I think that would all go hand in hand and again as you say they are relatively inexpensive things to do. But remember, money is no object here, it is a lottery, have you looked at how much the national lottery rakes in? You can do the installations to any spec you like. I wouldn't want a half assed affair. You can power the home and live normally now, there are many other technologies than just solar.


EDIT: Here is a for instance and a possibility... cess pits can be used in such a way to produce methane, which can be used for cooking and heating and even electricity generation with a fuel cell... It even produces useable fertilizer in the end. They are building these under the hotels in africa! Lol


I had a quote recently too for solar panels, it was about 6k fitted, it would save 30% off my electric bill, that is from what I use right now... Only 6k... I'm talking 100k and going all out! Fully off grid with as little disruption to your current habbits as possible.

theurbanfarmingguys.com...

Here is some info on bio-digesters, obviously this isn't for everyone but it could have it's uses for sure.

a reply to: Meee32
You cannot live normally in an off the grid home without at least 100k investment or more. You can't.

You say 6k to save 30% on your electric. Is that grid tied or just some DC powered lights and such?
Trust me, I am not arguing here. 6K to save 30% of how much? whats your projected payback period?

You can throw up some solar panels, which produce DC voltage and run DC appliances. If you want to run AC appliances you need an inverter. If you want your solar system tied into the grid you need a very good inverter to produce a decent AC sine wave from the DC voltage. Also a disconnect accessible to the power co. That in itself is not a big deal. Pay back period is a big deal.

In reality you are constrained by the size of the solar array. Panels only put out so much. The more power needed, the more panels needed. Southern exposure. No shade trees. Weight constraints of large array on a roof and size of roof.

If even if money is no object, energy use is.

Look at your energy use over the last year, determine average daily/hourly use... find solar panels that can fulfill those needs.

Not so much the money it would cost, look at how many panels it would take and the area required for those.

Id honestly consider purchasing land with a group of people on here and setting up an off grid community/organic farm....basically we can just be hippies. Some of the communes make some decent money through donations etc...although id like to add some sceintific work to our farming anad things like that.