Edward Snowden - How did this man get to where he is? Not an ideal Canadidate

a reply to: projectbane

I am curious to ask..what do you think the story is? We can say it doesn't add up, but the fact is..this *IS* what happened and you have a good record of it in your OP to establish his timeline for life.

I think we're missing a big piece here. Yes...CIA and NSA get countless applications a year. Yes..they turn down 90+ % of the goobers who walk in the front door asking about the help wanted sign out front. There is an enormous difference...

Unlike most employers, CIA and NSA go headhunting themselves and select their own new hires before some know they wanted to be, as often as they pick a 'good one' from the stack of trash in from the street.

I'm guessing Snowden had a particular talent OR a particular weakness. Either one works with these guys. The former gets him an offer he may not have seen coming from left field....the latter gets him that infamous offer he can't refuse. NSA in particular has a real reputation for recruiting some of the best gray and black hats they can corner and entrap. Maybe that is how a GED guy became a network admin in US Intelligence so quick.

We were also at war though..and this was a time when even a drug history wasn't enough to get the Marine Corps to laugh..which is quite a statement given their standards and level of "No Way!" before the wars started. It could have been as simple as needing warm bodies who could work a specific problem and he was a warm body with a brain who impressed someone.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

So the two possibilities are he was a useful idiot or he was a useful idiot. The only thing remaining to figure out is what was he a useful idiot for?

The backstory he gave of his positions within these agencies in not verifiable. So taken on face value and his credentials, they don't make sense. As I said in my prior post, his lack of credentials make him somewhat of a sympathetic hero. It also leaves no traceable history. His age is a factor too, as the majority they're trying to influence are the younger generations not the old farts like me If it were an older guy coming out, they wouldn't have the face or the lifestyle that younger people would care to or could identify with and would be long forgotten or dismissed from the get go. IMO Snowden is a fabrication.

a reply to: projectbane

I agree with you. Snowden's backstory is filled with problems but some people are willing to overlook that because they really want to believe.

The special forces story is a total crock. He didn't have enough time to even sniff the Q course. If he did in fact enlist he had time for basic training, AIT, and SFAS and that's assuming they would even let him attempt SFAS that quickly without going through the time in service and other training which they like to see applicants pass before the SFAS is attempted, and as a reservist? I doubt it.

The security guard job for the CIA is a dead giveaway. With his parent's background he would have had no problem getting that job but that wasn't what most seem to think it was. He would have been hired by the general services department (I'm not sure what it's called now). He would have been working in the logistics areas, warehouses, depots, places like that. He wouldn't have been working for the actual CIA in the way most want to believe he was. If anyone was interested in headhunting Snowden the last thing they would have done would be to allow him to work that security job.

I have some serious questions about the things Snowden says he had permissions to do within the NSA network itself. If it's all true then we have much bigger problems than even "Snowden" says we do. I also think Snowden would have been flagged just for being willing to take the huge cut in salary that he took in order to move to a place he'd never lived before where he had no friends or family.

There's an assumption many people make that the CIA/NSA/Intel in general likes to hire "bad guys". Would you give a black hat unlimited access to the NSA network? They probably consult with some of those guys but hiring them and giving them access is another thing, I seriously doubt it.

A couple of posters pointed out that the CIA/NSA (and the FBI) headhunt. They do, they just don't head hunt security guards. They're hunting for people with advanced degrees and highly technical knowledge about specific areas of the world or specific sectors of the economy who also have foreign language skills. They don't need to head hunt network admins, the government trains plenty of their own.

There's a lot more to question about the Snowden story but I'll stop here for now. It's funny what people are willing to ignore just because they really, really want to believe something.

a reply to: Goteborg
Great post!

If anyone is a MASH aficionado they'll know the Captain Tuttle story. Snowden is Tuttle with a face and a voice. But that face and voice is in a controlled environment with no real access other than what is controlled as in through Greenwald who is probably part of this in a very material manner. Snowden is behind the Iron Curtain. He could have gone to Iceland, but instead chose to go to two countries that have limited access. So like Tuttle, he can be a hero to many by his revelations, but they're revelations that are planted. And like in Tuttle, everyone wants to believe, as you said, in a hero just as everyone wanted to claim to be best friends with Tuttle in that MASH episode. Snowden is a puppet with someone's hand up his back, saying what ever it is they want to be said and all from within another country where the general press can't get to him.

a reply to: Goteborg

Some very valid points.

The fact that Snowden appears to of done an admirable thing is causing otherwise possible rational people on here to see only what they want. This guy just doesn't add up. His record is sketchy at best!

If its that simple for a nobody without the required skillsets to get into the CIA and NSA tech departments and download and compile files, HOW MANY others have been doing that? Doesn't it make anyone wonder how he managed to do it for a while and not get caught? Why is a simple tech guy allowed access to multiple classified docs?

Are there no fail-safes? IS copying files NOT protected on the computers the CIA and NSA have? IT just seems that it was rather to easy for this undereducated and irrelevant guy to get a job within the CIA and NSA and Booz ALLEN and then be able to secure all this data undetected.


If it is that simple to get a job with these agencies...then I suggest alll those who are jobless at the moment with just their GED's apply away. Gather data once in and before you know it the CIA and NSA willl be crippled!! Sound like a plan?

And NOW Snowden has apparently outed PUTIN....his one and only temporary savior?

Come on....you can't make this stuff up!! It is all planned!!

a reply to: projectbaneIt's clear that if Snowden was real, a real whistle-blower and in possession of anything instrumental to national security and not for public consumption, the CIA/NSA, the president and all those in government power would have disavowed any knowledge of him, diminished the information as inconsequential and moved on until they could apprehend him. There mere fact they gave him any credibility should tell us all we need to know.

originally posted by: projectbane
And NOW Snowden has apparently outed PUTIN....his one and only temporary savior?

Come on....you can't make this stuff up!! It is all planned!!

How did he out Putin? Seems they want us to believe he's in league with Putin.

Prove to an old fart like me that Snowden is an idiot. Page one he was a moron, however some disagreed with that character, now page 2 he has progressed to an idiot, while it's his 'followers' are now in frame as being somewhat deluded, what a load of old guff. You can smell the brown stuff a mile off.

originally posted by: smurfy
Prove to an old fart like me that Snowden is an idiot. Page one he was a moron, however some disagreed with that character, now page 2 he has progressed to an idiot, while it's his 'followers' are now in frame as being somewhat deluded, what a load of old guff. You can smell the brown stuff a mile off.

I'm an old fart too. Now please, in English, state what you're trying to say because what ever you said in this post is gibberish.

originally posted by: projectbane

originally posted by: cosmicexplorer

originally posted by: projectbane


Pretty much a failure at everything. Ok he got his GED (not exactly a smart cookie, dont let the glasses and preppy boy look fool you! Paper wise this guy is a moron)

That statement makes no sense at all...getting your GED doesnt mean you are smart or not smart. Obviously the guy did a lot of self teaching. I have a Bachelors degree in science and I made the Dean's List multiple times...I can tell you that college was a joke besides the expensive lab equipment I got to work with....Intelligent people can teach themselves usually much better than being in a classroom setting.

This could be a possibility. Highly doubtful though! The CIA has minimum requirements and barely completing a basic GED and attending a community college doesn't stand out in the crowd. Many applicants a year are turned away for not meeting basic education requirements.

Snowden took just a few computer classes at a community college in a bid to get his high-school equivalency degree, yet he failed to complete them.

Hiring screeners at Booz Allen Hamilton found possible discrepancies in a resume submitted by Edward Snowden, but the company still employed him, a source with detailed knowledge of the matter told Reuters.

I have actually applied to the CIA and they dont tell you the requirements....and there are many positions...the only thing you need to apply to the cia is be 18 years old....and if they are contracting you they can do whatever they want as you arent a cia employee you are contracted by the cia.

originally posted by: cosmicexplorer

originally posted by: projectbane

originally posted by: cosmicexplorer

originally posted by: projectbane


Pretty much a failure at everything. Ok he got his GED (not exactly a smart cookie, dont let the glasses and preppy boy look fool you! Paper wise this guy is a moron)

That statement makes no sense at all...getting your GED doesnt mean you are smart or not smart. Obviously the guy did a lot of self teaching. I have a Bachelors degree in science and I made the Dean's List multiple times...I can tell you that college was a joke besides the expensive lab equipment I got to work with....Intelligent people can teach themselves usually much better than being in a classroom setting.

This could be a possibility. Highly doubtful though! The CIA has minimum requirements and barely completing a basic GED and attending a community college doesn't stand out in the crowd. Many applicants a year are turned away for not meeting basic education requirements.

Snowden took just a few computer classes at a community college in a bid to get his high-school equivalency degree, yet he failed to complete them.

Hiring screeners at Booz Allen Hamilton found possible discrepancies in a resume submitted by Edward Snowden, but the company still employed him, a source with detailed knowledge of the matter told Reuters.

I have actually applied to the CIA and they dont tell you the requirements....and there are many positions...the only thing you need to apply to the cia is be 18 years old....and if they are contracting you they can do whatever they want as you arent a cia employee you are contracted by the cia.

I agree that the CIA probably has use for all sorts of people with all types of backgrounds. However, for the types of positions Snowden claimed to have held in the CIA, NSA and with the private contractor, require an elevated level of expertise. Where did he get that expertise? He discharged out of the Army training program for Special Forces after only 5 months, so he surely didn't get it there.

I just took this from the CIA website:

CIA FAQ

Having an undergraduate degree is not mandatory, but is highly recommended. Life experiences are taken into consideration. However, a standard requirement for overseas officers, intelligence analysts, and other non-clerical positions is a college degree, preferably an advanced degree.

In other words, Snowden working under cover in Geneva is highly unlikely. Not impossible but as with too many other parts of his story, highly unlikely.

I am only stating observations in this thread. He may be what he is said to be!!

However, when you look closely at his background you must ask questions. None of these question have any answers.

To me and a few others on here, it seems that he is somewhat of an enigma, nothing adds up and nothing seems as plain as what is being made out!!

originally posted by: Goteborg
I just took this from the CIA website:

CIA FAQ

Having an undergraduate degree is not mandatory, but is highly recommended. Life experiences are taken into consideration. However, a standard requirement for overseas officers, intelligence analysts, and other non-clerical positions is a college degree, preferably an advanced degree.

In other words, Snowden working under cover in Geneva is highly unlikely. Not impossible but as with too many other parts of his story, highly unlikely.

Could you enlarge on that? especially since Geneva is part and parcel of the CIA's denial that he was under observation when he was there... not that Snowden said that either.

originally posted by: Bilk22

originally posted by: smurfy
Prove to an old fart like me that Snowden is an idiot. Page one he was a moron, however some disagreed with that character, now page 2 he has progressed to an idiot, while it's his 'followers' are now in frame as being somewhat deluded, what a load of old guff. You can smell the brown stuff a mile off.

I'm an old fart too. Now please, in English, state what you're trying to say because what ever you said in this post is gibberish.

No it's not, I asked you to prove that Snowden is an idiot, all you are doing is waffling and procrastinating.

a reply to: smurfy

The story is that Snowden was in Geneva working for the CIA under some sort of cover. Snowden's educational background makes it highly unlikely that he was employed in that capacity by the CIA, or anyone else in the federal government for that matter. It's not impossible that things were as we've been told but it's unlikely. There are many things in his background story that are unlikely. That's why I don't believe a thing I've been told about Snowden, too many unlikely hoods.

You seem to think the story I've been going by is somehow incorrect. Tell me what you know it to be.

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: Bilk22

originally posted by: smurfy
Prove to an old fart like me that Snowden is an idiot. Page one he was a moron, however some disagreed with that character, now page 2 he has progressed to an idiot, while it's his 'followers' are now in frame as being somewhat deluded, what a load of old guff. You can smell the brown stuff a mile off.

I'm an old fart too. Now please, in English, state what you're trying to say because what ever you said in this post is gibberish.

No it's not, I asked you to prove that Snowden is an idiot, all you are doing is waffling and procrastinating.

I'm waffling and procrastinating? About what? I said he was a "useful idiot". Do you know what that expression means? It's also my opinion that he could not have gotten the position he claims to have gotten with his credentials. So there's more to this issue than meets the eye. Do you understand that opinion? I'm pretty sure I expressed myself rather clearly on that.

a reply to: Bilk22

Okay, I'll bite and I'm curious... What exactly do you mean by fabrication? The SVR creating him to mole in and then come back with a goodie bag, or our side made him as a disinfo double, or both working together to use the 'Snowden brand' to snow the public on whatever comes up?

If you mean the latter...It sure isn't lost on me that Snowden is the little Da Nang dive shack or St Louis Records fire of leakage potential for anything that may be important enough to shovel out that way. It comes with a near perfect credibility a segment of the world will accept, site unseen. It's like a golden transmission line for propaganda while it lasts, if that could be what it's all about.

It would be a clever move to actually counter Manning's damage in some ways that make it look like it compliments it, if Snowden remained loyal to his employers on this. (Pretty spy novel on that tho.. I admit)

Yeah. There's something that just doesn't pass the smell test about the whole thing with this guy. I was instantly suspicious of him and my opinion hasn't really changed.