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Decline in ATS forum discipline.

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posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 04:58 PM

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
I'm always amazed that the same people who complain about ATS, are some of the most active members.

I'm even more puzzled by the fact that people think that the internet is some static place. That internet forums in general, or websites in general don't evolve over time.

Remember facebook 5 years ago? Same concept is true with ATS. We are an evolving online space. Constantly changing in order to maintain this place. Which does not come cheap mind you.

As or the decrease in moderation..

There's also been a decrease in ALERTS filed by members for T&C infractions. We are only as effective as you are vigilant in maintaining the standards that the community has set for itself.

ATS is not a strict as it once was. We cannot be, or else we would not survive. It's unfortunate, but in order to maintain ourselves within the online space, ATS has to evolve it's standards and sometimes that means tolerating things like one line responses.

You can thank Twitter for that one.

The T&C is enforced just as it always has, it has not been modified or made less important in the eyes of any staffer. Our 'House Rules' may have changed, depending on what was necessary.

You want more moderation? You feel that there are things that aren't being done proper?

File an alert. I can't promise we will agree, but I can promise we will investigate and come to a consensus. Considering we are all VERY different people, with VERY DIFFERENT beliefs ( ask any staffer and they'll you the same thing) it never hurts for us to investigate and discuss.

The Political Mudd Pitt was to throw all the partisan nonsense to one place, and so far, it's been so damn tame we wonder what's going on. Give them a place to throw mud and everything is there cleaning each other's shoes off.


The political mudd pitt has me kind of miffed as well. I have actually been impressed by the restraint shown. It speaks volumes about the character of the members on this site. I can still say this is the most civil and intelligent forum I have ever been a part of.

Recently people have stated they've seen a "change" in the dynamics of ATS. A shift in favor of increased skepticism and resentful attitude against political disasters. As a long time lurker; I would agree.

That being said...I believe the lessened hostility towards each other has been redirected in its proper direction. We are unified in saying "I'm as mad as hell and I'm NOT gonna to take this anymore".

I believe there are issues and topics that REALLY need to be discussed. People can barely keep themselves from addressing these prohibited topics that are just as relevant as any others being discussed. For what ever reason they aren't allowed. And I can respect that; it's just frustrating.

You are right a lot has changed in the last 5 years. We have to change with it.

posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 05:44 PM

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
added to that the further machismo misogyny of the creep guy leering from the side of the screen

LOL ...
I second that all the while I'm reading I can see him out of the corner

of my eye, he's constantly leering much like a pervy peeping Tom LOL ... can't

concentrate on the subject of any of the threads!!!.....

posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 06:45 PM
My bigger issue is the standard for OP's and starting a thread has rapidly gone downhill to the point there practically isn't a standard anymore.

It's hard to police every post in every thread and yes we have a fair amount of younger people who can't be bothered to type in legible English and treat ATS like a text message to a high school friend, but at a minimum I'd think it's much easier to enforce thread standards for OP's.

There's many more crap threads compared to a few years ago. There's little thought in many of them, little explanation or opinion and as far as provoking thought and discussion, well, ATS has inched closer to TMZ. It is what it is though. ATS chooses who it panders to and ATS picked the twitter/facebook generation over substance and thought. Their choice. But many of the better forum members are long gone.

I've actually talked to members behind the scenes and they, like me, are hesitant to even take the time to create well thought-out threads as they get ignored and it turns into a complete waste of time. But if ATS is comfortable going that route, what can you do? Again, their choice.

And given ATS admits to loosening its enforcement of standards, I'd argue ATS shot itself in the foot by banning a number of its top members over the years when everything was strictly enforced, and now they let just about anything fly while they're left without those great members.
edit on 19-4-2014 by MysticPearl because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 11:39 PM

ATS has turned into a more social site. The conspiracy and alternative topics have already been discussed for years and years and seem to have been saturated. I know I´m over it for the most part.

Correct. The serious conspiracy believers are nearly all gone now, as are the colourful and generous souls who leavened conversation on this site.

They have been replaced by conspiracy consumers whose knowledge of these topics has mostly been gained from TV — the very same 'mainstream media' they love to revile in their content-free posts — and members of the paranoid religio-political fringe who freely use this place as a hate site.

The truth (as Kandinsky explains in his/her reply to the OP) is that the internet has changed, and sites like ATS are slowly becoming part of its history. That doesn't mean the site is going to vanish any time soon, but it's no longer at the cutting edge of social-media development. Instead, new developments in social media are forcing changes to ATS.

In direct response to the OP, however, my advice is not to take oneself so bloody seriously.

posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 12:06 AM
Wow really? Hey. I'm guilty too. I have had my profile banned from posting in the past. Just cause. I deserved it. But do you have any metrics? You say there are more incidents of bad behaviour. If the number of registered "ats" users has gone up, wouldn't it also increase the number of goober posts? ATS is accessible from more types of "devices" now. A person who owns a "smart" (NSA APPROVED - Hi folks! how's that NSA coffee this evening, tasty? and the donuts? not too stale? A good variety available? (OPERATION EL DORADO CANYON / Predator / Echelon / DEEP WELL) Save a bear claw or two for me will you? I may be coming back! Might have an interview soon!) phone can use ATS, so an actual computer isn't required. So there's even MORE access to the site. Good business model, my compliments ATS Staff! I agree with you that there may be "more" incidents of goober posts, but if your audience is growing, shouldn't this be the case? Anyway, thanks for the reminder. I've been trying to do better. Why? Because I REALLY LIKE hanging out here! It's cool! And besides, a little GMT is good. GMT - General MIlitary Training, once a month, you get reminded of stuff like, how can you tell if a shipmateis having emotional/suicide issues. Alchohol abuse and awarness. disaster preparedeness etc .... Maybe someone could write a macro that would periodically dip a data base of ats terms and conditions, and and then make a an automatic post of a selected ats term or condition the board forum . I know when I see the "board business" tag I READ them. Just a thought. But if there are more booger posts, my only supposition is there are more users. And that's what we want right? Ok. gotta go. Lots of fun stuff to still read tonite !

edit on 4202014 by tencap77 because: spelling / Content

posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 12:47 AM

originally posted by: MysticPearl
I've actually talked to members behind the scenes and they, like me, are hesitant to even take the time to create well thought-out threads as they get ignored and it turns into a complete waste of time.
I've felt this way too. Its one thing to allow short posts, just to keep up with the times, but that shouldn't mean the QUALITY of the posts end up being lowered.

posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 01:22 AM
a reply to: MysticPearl

I've actually talked to members behind the scenes and they, like me, are hesitant to even take the time to create well thought-out threads as they get ignored and it turns into a complete waste of time. But if ATS is comfortable going that route, what can you do? Again, their choice.

ATS has no control over members posting threads that other members ignore. We've all been there! For instance, a thread of mine involved several weeks of emails with US journalists and hours of study and preparation; it tanked. It's luck, timing and the Court of Public Opinion (member interest) rather than the fault of a website.

Neither can ATS make members post high standard threads - it's member-generated content. That means every time you have a good thread idea and see it as a 'waste of time' to post it, you're lowering the potential. I'm just as guilty as I haven't been motivated to post a decent thread since October 2012.

posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 02:19 AM
I have been lurking for a while before I joined, probably somewhere around 18 months to 2 years. One of the biggest things I am noticing is that certain types of threads will turn into bickering back and forth, no matter what. I'm not saying that this is something new, because I am noticing it more in threads that I wasn't so open to when I was just lurking.

A good example of this would be any Chemtrail/Contrail thread. Someone posts a picture, it may be a grid in the sky, or strange patterns, but the pictures generally depict the same basic thing. Then the bickering back and forth starts back and forth, about how one group of people feels that they are contrails, another feels like they are chemtrails. Then they get into the debate about whether or not chemtrails actually exist, while one group is saying basically that absence of evidence is not proof of non existence, the other is saying that the absence of evidence is absolute proof of non existence. It seems that every one of these threads end up going this direction.

That was just one example, but I see it in a few other types of threads too. It has gotten to a point that a lot of it just seems like the same repetitive comments, even to the point that I am almost able to ask myself how many posts in the thread I am going to read before I see a post from such and such member claiming that it is so an so phenomena. Sometimes I have a hard time even wanting to click on threads that might interest me because of things like that.

posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 02:20 AM

originally posted by: Kandinsky
If you described another member as a 'tosser,' the post would be actioned because it's ill-mannered and it attacks the player instead of the ball. If you told that member to 'go f*** off,' you'd be actioned too.

Frustration is only natural sometimes! It's how we respond to the frustrating posts that sets ATS above some other forums or the comment sections of You Tube. We all fall short of the standard sometimes, but that standard remains regardless of whether a member manages to deny what's often the blindingly obvious.

i suppose that's why they brought back the "mud pit" that we could have slightly rougher discussions..

i mean, there's obviously still limits, but i think, for the most part, the administration is more willing to trust our ability to exercise common sense, and is more flexible in terms of discretion, when it comes to ignoring the more minor infractions..

posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 02:22 AM
a reply to: TrueBrit

indeed, and your point is well taken, my good man...

posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 02:25 AM

originally posted by: Hellmutt
There are thousands of new posts on ATS every day, and not so many mods. We can't action the posts we don't see, and we obviously don't read thousands of posts every day. More mods is not the solution, as there are other factors to consider, a balance to maintain, and security matters and so on. The solution is that you alert such posts, and then give us time to review and take action if necessary. If you see a certain bad post or posts, it doesn't mean that we allow it. Alert it! ;)

but doesn't that lead to a state where everyone is tattling on each other like 5 year-olds? (see something, say something, anyone?) i mean, how effective is the staff going to be if they hafta intervene EVERY time someone feels butthurt?

posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 02:32 AM
a reply to: tothetenthpower

i think the problem in the pit, is nobody's exactly sure HOW far they're allowed to go, before one of y'all drops the hammer on them...

i know how much i hate writing a long, well thought out post, just to have it arbitrarily deleted, because ONE of you decides they disagree with the wording, or the thoughts expressed...i actually had this happen once, and was the direct cause of my last hiatus from here...

there's nothing worse that having a mod declare themselves a one-man morality patrol, and zap a post that might have taken me 20 minutes or more to put's bulls**t...if a mod finds something objectionable, why can't they just edit out the "offensive" content, and leave the post in place?

all zapping it does, is ensure that the poster in question won't be heard.

posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 03:15 AM

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
Of late, I've noticed that certain members habitually show up in a serious thread and make a short and silly post that contributes nothing to the subject being discussed.

Can you link those posts ?
If you don't link those posts ,I don't know what are you talking about.

posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 04:55 AM
I agree that the level of discourse has taken a hit of late.

In an involved thread, I don't so much mind the quick and (sometimes) witty jabs and jokes because they can be glossed over.

My concern has been the decrease in civility and an increase in personal attacks, "Hate Jargon" (ie; Sheeple, Tea bagger, Libtard. Republitard and labeling and shaming based on a view expressed), and people who aren't willing to discuss their extreme views - only to angrily state them and go the attack.

Politics and religion, tough topics at the best of time, have gotten really bad.

I know this sounds like a grumpy old-man when I say that "Back in my day, we could discuss these things without anyone getting hurt" but it's true.

Personally, I think it is a responsibility of everyone, not just the Mods to keep the conversations meaningful. And I believe that can be done without getting into tit-for-tat retaliations. This board is still something special and there is a lot of knowledge and experience to draw on. But only if the conversations are worth it. Sadly, when a thread starts to get chippy it is the reasonable people that tend to leave first, leaving the "shouters" and extremists behind to tear up the topic.

This once great board is STILL great. Let's hope that the nasty nature of some posters and members is a temporary thing. The "Good" people that can discuss controversial topics from many different and opposing viewpoints need to feel ownership of this board. To do that we need to feel we aren't powerless to stop the crap in it's tracks.

If the whole community stays together and makes it known in polite but firm terms that the sort of "Crap" we are talking about here is not acceptable I believe people will get the message that this isn't YouTube.

I believe in the statement that "ATS is better than that" against personal attacks is a valid one.

posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 07:08 AM

originally posted by: Daedalus

how effective is the staff going to be if they hafta intervene EVERY time someone feels butthurt?

Not every time. It's on a case-by-case basis. We review the complaints and only take action if necessary. Depending on the case, if the mods come to a concensus, we'll take the necessary action. A post that has been complained about may be borderline. The mods may discuss whether to take action on a post or not, and sometimes even what action to take. But of course, if it's obvious, then the first mod on the scene may take action right away. But even if we're not reading thousands of posts each day, we're not completely blind. We may be reading dozens or hundreds of posts. If we see something, we may take action even when there has not been a complaint.

posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 05:38 PM
a reply to: Hellmutt

ok, intervene wasn't quite the right word..i was tired, lol

i'm just saying that if you're flooded with reports, because everyone and their cousin is reporting everyone and their cousin, there's no way you can possibly go through all of that mess....

and again, it turns things into a "see something, say something", "report your neighbors" kinda posters with an agenda, instead of making a valid argument, can just bait a poster into saying whatever, and then report them, and use you guys to eliminate their opposition....

it's a dirty tactic, but i've seen it done before.

i mean, i don't even know why we're discussing this. people should have enough sense to know what "civility" is, and where the bounds of propriety are, and to know that "swearing" is only acceptable under certain circumstances, and isn't to be used as every-other-word filler, because a poster has a poor vocabulary.

posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 06:25 PM
a reply to: Daedalus

But that's just it. On the one hand, it's "the quality is declining lately" but on the other hand when the staff says to alert posts that you think have problems, it's "but that leads to neighbor turning on neighbor". It can't be both ways. There are only so many staff members, and only so much time for us to read. And we all like to post things too, on top of having a life outside ATS (well, they do, I'm a truck driver, so I have no life). We can only be in so many places during the day, and with all the posts that get added in a day, we're going to miss things if no one wants to say anything.

posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 06:35 PM
a reply to: Zaphod58

right, right, but again, we're talking about subjective things...opinions.

what one person might consider "declining quality" might be fine for everyone else, and that person is just butthurt because he lost an argument...i suppose that's what the deliberation process is for, but still..i believe i mentioned something before about having enough sense to understand "civility", and so forth.....yes, a balance must be struck, but isn't it hard to strike that balance, if you get flooded with reports, that aren't really meaningful?

posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 06:40 PM
a reply to: Daedalus

We'd rather see too many alerts, and have most of them be no action, than to not see any alerts, and suddenly start looking into something and having to ban someone or something along those lines.

posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 06:55 PM
I even at some point saw the "decline" here, and instead of participate where I felt I would be ridiculed instead of understood, I refrained from posting.

Many of us that have been here for a fairly long time will go through what I call "the old people syndrome".

For example.... I remember when ATS ____________, or those were the days, and so on, ATS is required in order to stay on top in a even level playing field. When it was about knowledge, only a few cared, when UFO's and ghosts were only for the "looney" folks no one cared, but we have entered into a new age of theorists, and to be honest, Im ok with thinking that ATS has gotten to "hip" for me.

This doesnt hinder my thirst for knowledge, but only to take what I learned from here when it was more enjoyable for me, and look for posters/members/threads that I enjoy and ignore the rest.

In my personal opinion I think that another forum, made or specified in a more "old ATS" style would be beneficial, I dont see it happening.

SO enjoy what you can, promote those that write with conviction with stars and flags, as that is a dying breed. Even though I dont want to participate in my own way, does not mean that I will not promote the hell out of those that are still trying to keep ATS and knowledge hand and hand.

Peace, NRE.

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