A question of the existential versus the analyzed life

So I have been wondering something and would love to enter into a conversation with ATSers.

I am in this transition of late in my professional life. I have since internship practiced my craft in an analytic style. Although not formally trained (admittedly) I have done some study with Carl Jung and have adored the concept of the analyzed life. We look at those patterns in our life and can discover our psyche and piece ourselves together.

Now...

In my own treatment (GAD and Cyclothymia) I have labelled myself and searched for truth...then my psychologist threw out a concept that has since changed my life.

Why not discontinue my analysis of self and just be in the moment? I have since began learning to be in the moment and I can say for sure that my life has radically changed for the better

So I am well aware that no one theory of practice will work for every client so instead I have a basic philosophical question to discuss here

Is it wise and useful to analyze your life or is it better to just exist in the moment and disregard analysis?

Or is there some method in-between? Are they mutually exclusive?

reply to post by KyoZero


I don't think they're mutually exclusive. Analysis, logic, and reason can be great tools for uncovering errors in thinking. Logic isn't everything of course. That's why we're human, with heart and a mind. That's why human existence is a beautiful struggle. We're trying to make sense of our lives, find meaning in them, and there are many ways of thinking and living to do that.

I love the Buddhist concept of mindfulness and try to practice it everyday, although taking care of a two year old can you leave you less mindful than normal!

reply to post by KyoZero


Introspection is a part of the process. To see your mind and understand it, you have to practice introspection. It has its time and place.

Visitor2012
reply to post by KyoZero

 

Introspection is a part of the process. To see your mind and understand it, you have to practice introspection.

fair enough, and this is ONLY to play devil's advocate, not to disagree

Can a person who lives in the moment and does not analyze live a fruitful life?

KyoZero

Visitor2012
reply to post by KyoZero

 

Introspection is a part of the process. To see your mind and understand it, you have to practice introspection.

fair enough, and this is ONLY to play devil's advocate, not to disagree

Can a person who lives in the moment and does not analyze live a fruitful life?

Hmmm...I'll take a crack at it.

A Farmer would say NO!
A Monk would say YES!

Too many variables.
What qualifies as a "fruitful life"? Success? breeding? coming up with some sort of inner peace?
And what are those qualifications derived from?

I would venture to say, for me, the living in the moment is a daily affair, and the analytical approach is more of a broad occasional thing to mostly tweak my direction based on what I favor.

Note: my life is currently a hot mess. I am not suggesting my view is superior..just a balance that for some absurd reason makes me comfortable...but also dissatisfied with where I am at. I think I should employ more reflection and consideration and less "moment living" if I want to achieve anything else...bit stuck in a pattern though -notes the time of this post, realizing this isn't gonna help the sensible sleeping schedule idea-

Life really needs save points that we can go back to and redo...each moment lost will never come back, and that sucks...that's also the thought that keeps me in the now..because the broad view freaks me out.

reply to post by KyoZero

I am in this transition of late in my professional life. I have since internship practiced my craft in an analytic style. Although not formally trained (admittedly) I have done some study with Carl Jung and have adored the concept of the analyzed life

Man! Am I reading that right? Is Jung still being taught in psychiatry? In England we touch on Freud and Jung at college and barely hear from them again at the BSc psychology level. The college lecturer covered them both in one lesson and described them as 'discredited.' Jung can be interesting imo.

Is it wise and useful to analyze your life or is it better to just exist in the moment and disregard analysis?

Eithers and ors? Does it have to be that way?

I think that a lot of self-absorbed people would benefit from 'life in the moment.' Exercise, running, sweating and endorphin rushes can put someone's psyche back on the ground and the rewards can be long-lived - touch the dirt and breathe the air. Self-esteem increases and physical goals can focus the intellect on external things rather than the internal. All of which can work alongside self-analysis, psychoanalysis or therapeutic approaches although ymmv.

reply to post by KyoZero


There is a time for everything.
I have been through phases of life in which my energy was mostly going towards introspection and analysis, then other times I stopped that altogether.

At this time, I do some reflection and analysis each morning, and before going to bed. But the rest of the day I remain spontaneous and authentic in each moment.

I think, knowing I will analyze this later allows me to be more in the moment, in fact. If you know what I mean? "I will think later, so I don't need to now."

originally posted by: KyoZero

Visitor2012
reply to post by KyoZero

 

Introspection is a part of the process. To see your mind and understand it, you have to practice introspection.

fair enough, and this is ONLY to play devil's advocate, not to disagree

Can a person who lives in the moment and does not analyze live a fruitful life?

I take it my comic relief was insufficient. You're always in the moment. Every now and then you spend it analyzing and thinking, but you're always living in the moment. Now, experiencing the moment is another thing... And you can't experience the moment, if you're in your head chattering to yourself.

Experiencing the present moment with peace and joy is the fruit.

originally posted by: KyoZero


fair enough, and this is ONLY to play devil's advocate, not to disagree

Can a person who lives in the moment and does not analyze live a fruitful life?

(It's my early morning time, looking for stimulants for introspection...)

I would say,
Depends upon what you consider "fruitful".
I will tend to read a constructive life; one in which things are built or created (a dwelling, a family structure, a career, art, music, skills and knowledge....)

From there, if one is living completely "in the moment", meaning without introspection,
then it depends upon the education and upbringing they had (barring genetic obstacles, handicaps, etc.).

Because what will drive their acts and reactions will be the conditioned and learned concepts, behaviors, intents and motivations.
If they grew up in an environment that programmed all of this, and provided models of what it is right to strive for and what isn't, then they shall work towards those without having to think.

If they grew up in an environment which expected the individual to form their own goals and intents, morals and values, then they will be left only to their drives for immediate gratification. .....which leads to a less fruitful, or constructive life.

OR

If they have gone through a period of life being introspective,
having broken down the early conditioning they received, gained understanding of how their own mind and body work and can be programmed,
Then worked on choosing their goals and intents consciously their self, and applying the appropriate programming into their body,
Then they can live in the moment and also be fruitful.

If you study Jung, then that is not a new concept for you.
The question to ask is-
have you delved as deep as you can go? Have you broken down the walls, lost yourself, and rebuilt yet?
Are you who you want to be?
If the answer is yes, then you can trust yourself to live in the moment now, no?

originally posted by: KyoZero


Why not discontinue my analysis of self and just be in the moment? I have since began learning to be in the moment and I can say for sure that my life has radically changed for the better
So I am well aware that no one theory of practice will work for every client so instead I have a basic philosophical question to discuss here
Is it wise and useful to analyze your life or is it better to just exist in the moment and disregard analysis?
Or is there some method in-between? Are they mutually exclusive?

Life is for living.
How do you think by always thinking of the past you can somehow create a better now?
Life is constant, what happens moment to moment (life situation/experiences) constantly changes, it is only your mind that likes and dislikes and calls some moments "better" based not on the experience of the moment but the thought of a worse past time. You cannot tell by thinking of the past what new or unexpected experience will happen based on the past. Something new ( each moment) should be felt as new, not as a comparison to a past memory.

Spending your life thinking of the past( or imagining the future) does not help at all, how could it? Your life is now and you need to be where life is.
You loose the moment when you waste thinking about the past .
Your Now( present moment) is not your past, your now is real, the past is just memories, the future is imagined it is always now.
So where do you think you should be.
This practice works with every human being .

The Dalai Lama, when asked what surprised him most about humanity, answered "Man. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."

Huh?....Yeah...

In reply to my own post: It must also be taken into consideration, that some people are in a position of privilege to take such consideration of the lives and actions of others, most are not free or free-thinking enough out of necessity to think so deeply of things other than more menial issues and stresses. a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

a reply to: KyoZero

** hi KyoZero, nice to meet you ! ATS philosophy and Metaphysics 17 april
FIRST i analyse all data in front of me, to make sure i comprehend both the question, and as much of the nature of the questionER as intuitively seems needed (to get at your meanings).
WAIT, now ive got inspired into "a Project" i switch on some music to improve my "just got out of bed, and the cat brought in a dead rat (really !)" mood. Jack White and Bob Dillon singing OMCOC wow, the two greatest male Blues singers on the planet together !! sounds a bit like Hotel California. if you dont like this song Zero, there is no hope for you at all - try HaraKiri ....
www.youtube.com... [ one more cup ]

SO FAR i conclude from "Kyo" that you are a Cooperative Androgenous Japanese Apricot, living in a village near the Capital - right ? and "Zero" means you are stuck in the Middle of the TAO of Lao Tzu (Buddhistic Middle Way), but havent got a clue whats going on - right ? shall i go Left or Right, and where is Forward anyway Lets start with that bit first. FORWARD ASCENSION up the "Gradual Slope Away" (GSA) from Attachment to this mortal world, and towards your Next Life without need for any more incarnations, involves thousands of Kamanic "Packet Completions" (KPC) >UP the Time Z-axis at right angles to your Spacial 2-d vision x,y-Plane before you. Actually ALL things (and concepts) are of course 3-dimensional (not 2), but there is no contradiction here, because the Time 4th axis can be conceived in parallel to (say) the Z-axis, and when you have completed one "cubic" Packet of Experience (lasting anything from 3 milli-secs to say 30 minutes, depending on your abilities to Focus undistractedly), then the Human Consciousness Mechanism (HCM) jumps on to its "Deo-NEXIC packet of self-Awareness" (KDN), along that STRING of packets which retrospectively becomes "your Life".
www.youtube.com... [ seeker, Who lyrics ]

** ok mr Zero, are you still here ? if Jacks amazing Voice is distracting you, SILENCE will help you Focus Internally on checking "the Truth" herein that you are seeking. haha, not if youre anything like my "wife" (bad-tempered rattlesnake cohabitee) with only 2 milli-seconds Attention Span before her eyes start rolling and she leaps up shouting "ive got something (anything) more important to do than listen to this #". so we have "Analytically" established some depth to why you chose your own name - quite important indicator of personallity, and where you are internally. next i wonder what is your "profession" and age - furthur indicators of either You, or the way "Fate" has pushed you around "In the Lap of The Moirai" >
www.youtube.com... [ revelators, Halifax]

** but NOW (now), what do you mean "practiced my craft" ? are you a Bipolar Witch, or an Alien cant remember where he parked his ETV - like me ? anyway that can wait, here comes YOUR ANSWER !!! ....
All growing consciousness HAS to use the "Analytical Mind" to start with, in order to TEST the environment and Aquire Knowledge by the Scientific Method, NOT NOT NOT by any religious Dogma "god" worshipping, unless you want to to find the Antithetical DEVIL. but once you get confident enough to Rapidly Reject any direction which "intuitively" does not seem Likely to be Beneficial to your Wants and Needs during Survival, THEN you can NARROW YOUR FOCUS considerably to Rapid "Do or Not Do" decisions, and Bypass huge chunks of that MIRE which traps the feet of millions of Less Adventurous travellers along "The Path of Liberation".

** a great Master like Bruce Lee may SEEM to be "non-analytical" as he reacts with powerful speed, But that is simply because he did all his Analysis and Decisions about what his Attitude to the world was going to be, long ago. so that when he was ( still >IS< !!! ) facing an attacker, his Determination was "For my own survival, the opponent must be beaten with Maximum Efficiency. i do not want to kill, but if the Force needed to stop the attack results in his death, then too bad, it was his fault for attacking... ". Live and let Die. do you see mr.Zero that Master Lee's "analysis" had narrowed to extreme Focus and Intuition, shuffle (locate the Chi), ready, wait 1 milli-second to confirm the opponents intention is bad, and needs Preemptive Repellation, then BLAM. look at the astounding video where he faces Bob Wall,
www.youtube.com... [ enter Dragon ]

** the "Vison" of the glass shard in Bruce's mind, was his memory that the enemy had previously killed /raped his sister Mao Ying, and Bruces determination became irreversible, NOT "mindless" - be careful mr Zero. Master Lee (in that role) was 99% certain of his own Attitude to killer Wall weeks ago, so > IN THAT INSTANT, the only thing remaining wat to wait a milli-second for CONFIRMATION of the enemies bad character (in case maybe he had some "excuse" or appology). As it happens on the real set of the movie, the bottle Bob grabbed, cut Bruces hand badly (lot of blood), and Bruce got really annoyed "ill fix that mother-#er" (he said in Chinese !) and the kick he delivered to Bob's chest broke real bones, and sent him flying back much furthur than was shown in the movie. the last shot where Bruce jumped down onto Wall's chest showed the pain on Master Lee's face as he remembered what Wall had done to Mao Ying, knowing that Wall deserved to die. as it happens he nearly did !! so the moral of the story is dont mess with mr.Lee, whether in a movie story >OR on the set ! ....

** returning to your psychologist's advice, which you have already found brings greater happiness, as you break away from EXCESS ATTACHMENT (to the world) via reducing "analysis" of Myriad things not relevant to YOUR portion of this Life... BUT you need to study the above Lessons OTHERWISE, if you go TOO FAR, and abandon analysis completely, you may end up among the Reckless Dead. look at another video of 2 swedish women (drugged on Crystal Meth i guess), who felt they were invincible, against cars on the M6 expressway Birmingham
www.youtube.com... [swedish possession ]

that is truly a case worth analysing !! obviously a Death Wish had gripped those sisters, for some reason - maybe Spirit Possession or Dramatic Karma. maybe they had been Viking warriors in a past life, but had taken TOO MUCH liking to killing, and in this life had to Bravely face their own deaths... who knows, but looking at their Facial Characters and calmly smoking before running into the traffic AGAIN, indicates they were not "soft females" in any sense. Their souls were somehow extremely Brave, like they were saying "# death, i am invincible, i can fight anything". MAYBE they are now smiling (a Little) on the "other side" as they feel me writing this. i see them crying, "omg im sorry" - but not for running into the cars, rather for whatever horrors it was they had inflicted on victims in their past.... i feel the woman knows this is all (roughly) true. i dont need to know all her personal details, to get the essence of her past.
** continued next post ....

a reply to: Bluesma

** continuation of previous post. Hey Bluesma(n) i like that quote by John Morrison. change your name to Bluesman, and you might get to like Jack White !!

** this reply is getting too long so ill have to split the post. Finally there >IS< a "Mother Goddess" who is the Final Arbiter of KARMA, but ironically you must not focus much on images of HER either. this is an aspect of Pagan Zenistic Existentialism (PZE) - but if you start thinking about "god", make sure you KEEP AWAY FROM HEBREWS, they are closer to their own devils than they realise themselves > the "Great Christ Deception" (GCD). try Listening to the Beauty of Russian Orthodox singing. if we dont understand the language, that helps, because it prevents the distraction of trying to comprehend the words limited by earth interpretations. Music has the facility to lift the soul AWAY from confusing sentences generated by the brains slow abilities to express the underlying themes. goodluck along the great TAO ....

www.youtube.com... [ russian orthodox ] Kaman 2014

---------------------------------

a reply to: Kandinsky


It truly depends where you learn and who is teaching you. I happened to find the one and only instructor in my grad school that was an analyst. I loved it and fed on it and while I am not a professional analyst, I geared my entire learning around Jung's teachings. The thing is, and what drove this thread creation is, I am wondering if maybe I and others are trying too hard to find meaning when instead it might be better to be the being-in-the-world and simply living our lives. Really I haven't made a 100% choice yet and perhaps no single choice needs to be made. Maybe a balance is key.

What I do know is that ever since embracing existential thought and simply being myself in the moment, my happiness and relation to the world and myself has increased a TON. I feel so much more comfortable being me when I do just that...be me

So I thought I would propose this question to ATS since I value opinions here

and nobody disappointed. Great answers by all

originally posted by: BDBinc


Life is for living.
How do you think by always thinking of the past you can somehow create a better now?
Life is constant, what happens moment to moment (life situation/experiences) constantly changes, it is only your mind that likes and dislikes and calls some moments "better" based not on the experience of the moment but the thought of a worse past time. You cannot tell by thinking of the past what new or unexpected experience will happen based on the past. Something new ( each moment) should be felt as new, not as a comparison to a past memory.

Spending your life thinking of the past( or imagining the future) does not help at all, how could it? Your life is now and you need to be where life is.
You loose the moment when you waste thinking about the past .
Your Now( present moment) is not your past, your now is real, the past is just memories, the future is imagined it is always now.
So where do you think you should be.
This practice works with every human being .

This is precisely what drove me to make this thread and frankly take a long look at my life. I am obsessed with analysis and to a degree that it has harmed me. So the reality is BDBinc, you've read me like a book in your post. Up until recently (and to a small degree still) I always had to know where I was, where I came from and where I was going. But the therapist I see takes a super existential approach and it has changed my life. My anxiety level has decreased by a lot now that I am moving towards being a person in the world and letting the analysis of every little detail go to the wind

thanks for your response.