Why overarching conspiracy theories are generally crap

Short 3 minute clip from Mckennas 2 hour talk 'eros and the eschaton' where he explains why he thinks that most peoples views that x party is controlling everything somehow is a gross oversimplification as to how the world actually works. I honestly think that even though all these secret socieities, corporations, whatever, are certainly trying to control as many things as possible he is correct when he says that eventually they are always overcome by new information and new ideas that overthrow their hold on people. In general he is getting at the point that a conspiritorial view of the world is a worldview based on a victim mindset, wouldn't it be easy to just suppose that the FBI controls everything, the military controls the world, or that the greys are sending pro bono proctologists from Zeta Reticuli to test the human race ... and then all forms of swirly theories and notions swarm into that world view.



"Change is accelerating. Invention, connection, adumbration of ideas, mathematical algorithms, connectivity of people, social systems, this is all accelerating furiously, and under the control of no one – not the Catholic church, the community party, the IMF, no one is in charge of this process! This is what makes history so interesting: it’s a runaway freight train on a dark and stormy night! This is why I’m not particularly sympathetic to conspiracy theory – because I can’t make the leap of faith that would cause you to believe anyone could get hold of the beast enough to control it! – I mean, conspiracies, of course, we have conspiracies up the kazoo; but none of them are succeeding! – they’re all being swept away, compromised, astonished by new information, and endlessly agonised!

If I were dependent on the notion that human institutions are necessary to pull us out of the ditch, I would be very despairing. As I said, nobody’s in charge – not the IMF, the Pope, the communist party, the Jews, no, no, no, nobody has their finger on what’s going on. So then, why hope? Isn’t it just a runaway train, out of control? I don’t think so. I think the out-of-controlness is the most hopeful thing about it! After all, whose control is it out of?! You and I never controlled it in the first place! Why are we anxious about the fact that it’s out of control? I think if it’s out of control, then our side is winning!

I think he is right to an extent, we now live in an age where it's basically impossible for any one power to take control world affairs. The process is much more organic and chaotic than the conspiracy mindset would make you believe. I think it's all too simple to build up a world view where x company or x government are behind every atrocity in the world, but it's so much more complex than that. History is a long list of failed conspiracies (else we would not know about them, and the word would not even exist), and I think they will continue to fail forever. Sure they might work temporarily, but as he says "they’re all being swept away, compromised, astonished by new information, and endlessly agonised"

If you think someone is controlling everything then please state who now, and why you think this, so this thread can be productive.

All conspiracies are crap? I guess there's no need coming back to ATS ever again!!
It's very easy to see who controls everything. Just start digging who the owners and investors are in everything that makes big money, AND the high-ranking people in positions of those many entities, like the Federal Reserve, Wall Street, American news medias, Hollyweird, etc., etc..

Fylgje
All conspiracies are crap? I guess there's no need coming back to ATS ever again!!
It's very easy to see who controls everything. Just start digging who the owners and investors are in everything that makes big money, AND the high-ranking people in positions of those many entities, like the Federal Reserve, Wall Street, American news medias, Hollyweird, etc., etc..

edit on 16-4-2014 by Fylgje because: (no reason given)

Are all of these people in the same game, working with each other, or actually more in mutual competition for getting rich?

I think you will find it's the latter, and basic economics.

I'm not saying that modern economics are good at all, in fact I think they inherently bad by perpetuating a rich poor divide that is growing bigger and bigger all the time, but to state that they have complete control over anything worthy of note here will need a lot of support.

"let me control the money and i care not who is elected" - a fat banker
naw...
no over arching conspiracy here.
shouldn't have used the word "crap" in the title methinks

Excuse me but the groups and organizations you're mentioning are not secret so I don't really understand why you posted this here. You'll find plenty more people interested in this in the "general conspiracies" forum.

I'm not being a jackass or anything,just trying to help you out with your thread.

ZeuZZ
Short 3 minute clip from Mckennas 2 hour talk 'eros and the eschaton' where he explains why he thinks that most peoples views that x party is controlling everything somehow is a gross oversimplification as to how the world actually works. I honestly think that even though all these secret socieities, corporations, whatever, are certainly trying to control as many things as possible he is correct when he says that eventually they are always overcome by new information and new ideas that overthrow their hold on people. In general he is getting at the point that a conspiritorial view of the world is a worldview based on a victim mindset, wouldn't it be easy to just suppose that the FBI controls everything, the military controls the world, or that the greys are sending pro bono proctologists from Zeta Reticuli to test the human race ... and then all forms of swirly theories and notions swarm into that world view.

After spending about 2+ years on this website as well as being an avid fan of history (why oh why, ATS, do you not have a history forum!?!), I've come to these conclusions as well. History shows us that every thing is cyclical. We repeat history all the time. This helps create the illusion of conspiracy since it makes things appear like they are all connected. However, the opposite appears to be true. The reason history repeats is because DIFFERENT people repeat the mistakes of past people with the same outcomes.

Also, keep in mind, everyone has a personal agenda. That personal agenda involves getting further ahead (sometimes no matter the cost) which can and will result in the suffering of others. This doesn't have to mean a businessman exploiting his workers or customers. It could be a housewife who decides to spend her last $20 until payday on a new purse or something instead of using it to help some people out. These little things start adding up. Start extrapolating this out to more and more people and things start to look connected again. But again, this is just the result of people being people.

I find that the evidence for the NWO, mason connections, satanic doom bringers, etc is all very lacking and that the troubles of today's world (keep in mind: I don't necessarily think the people who are supposed to be connected to those organizations are good people with our best interests at heart either) can all be laid at the feet of normal people like you and I behaving like normal people. It all comes back to happiness and what an individual thinks (this word is key) they need to be happy. The lady in my previous example could have sent that $20 to Africa to help some starving child eat for a LONG time, but instead she thought she needed that purse instead. She gets to be happy while that poor kid continues to go hungry. The rules of happiness for each person is SO varied that during the pursuit of said individual happiness, it is bound to make someone else unhappy.

reply to post by ZeuZZ


funny you put this in your OP.

wouldn't it be easy to just suppose that the FBI controls everything,

he admits to working for them, and no he wasn't talking about aliens or shrooms, he was talking about the the FBI.
so anything he says after 1971 should be considered suspect to me.

and here is the gnostic media link.
NEW MKULTRA DISCOVERY: Terence McKenna admited that he was a “deep background” and “PR” agent (CIA or FBI).

post by ZeuZZ

If you think someone is controlling everything then please state who now

post by ZeuZZ

I honestly think that even though all these secret socieities, corporations, whatever, are certainly trying to control as many things as possible

You already answered your own question.

hounddoghowlie
reply to post by ZeuZZ

 

funny you put this in your OP.

wouldn't it be easy to just suppose that the FBI controls everything,

he admits to working for them, and no he wasn't talking about aliens or shrooms, he was talking about the the FBI.
so anything he says after 1971 should be considered suspect to me.

and here is the gnostic media link.
NEW MKULTRA DISCOVERY: Terence McKenna admited that he was a “deep background” and “PR” agent (CIA or FBI).

edit on 16-4-2014 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

This is true, to an extent. I don't want to get this thread banned due to the rules around this area, but the reason he was intercepted by the FBI is that at some point his history he got in a lot of trouble for smuggling something he should not have into the US. Yet when the FBI interviewed him he was able to rationalize it enough they dropped all charges. If you can link me to anything where Mckenna espouses advocacy of adherence to either the FBI or any powerful corporate institution working against people as a whole then I will be very very impressed.

To save you the time; you wont be able to. Mckenna is on our side, trust me.



He wants the anti corporatocracy type of revolution to make this world the fairer place most of us here are striving for.

I honestly think that even though all these secret socieities, corporations, whatever, are certainly trying to control as many things as possible

They are trying to create and maintain boundaries in a world that is constantly dissolving the boundaries they try to construct between people, sure. It must be a very aggravating thing to be trying to do, and they will probably wear themselves out eventually and give way to the flow of the chaos implicit in the human system.

I've yet to hear anyone post about who they thinks is controlling everything

reply to post by ZeuZZ


I think you may find some posters who are going to make some assumptions about your arguments in this thread. They will assume when you say that there isn't some huge overarching conspiracy to control the world then you are implicitly saying as well that you think our leaders and the various rich corporate jackoffs around the world are also on the up and up.

I recognize that this isn't necessarily true and that most of these people don't have our best interests at heart, but I also believe that they don't have each other's best interests at heart. The only best interests they have at heart is their own (maybe their family). Sometimes those interests align with other best interests of some other rich ahole whose best interests may align with someone else's best interests (though not necessarily the first person's best interests) and so on and so forth. All these connected interests creates the appearance of conspiracy, but really these people probably will screw each other over just as fast as they screw us over given the opportunity.

Krazysh0t
reply to post by ZeuZZ

 

I think you may find some posters who are going to make some assumptions about your arguments in this thread. They will assume when you say that there isn't some huge overarching conspiracy to control the world then you are implicitly saying as well that you think our leaders and the various rich corporate jackoffs around the world are also on the up and up.

I recognize that this isn't necessarily true and that most of these people don't have our best interests at heart, but I also believe that they don't have each other's best interests at heart. The only best interests they have at heart is their own (maybe their family). Sometimes those interests align with other best interests of some other rich ahole whose best interests may align with someone else's best interests (though not necessarily the first person's best interests) and so on and so forth. All these connected interests creates the appearance of conspiracy, but really these people probably will screw each other over just as fast as they screw us over given the opportunity.

edit on 16-4-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

Perfectly said.

Wow, it's what I've been saying for years. But I'm a troll. A disinformation agent, insane or just a bitch. Welcome to my world. Won't you come on in.

reply to post by ZeuZZ


dropping the charges and working for them are entirely two different things. why do you suppose they dropped the charges, i guarantee it wasn't because he was a smooth talker, or a skilled bs arist. the FBI has seen all that. they turned him and wanted him to be a mouth piece for them, and inform on the connections or the people they targeted.

This is true, to an extent. I don't want to get this thread banned due to the rules around this area, but the reason he was intercepted by the FBI is that at some point his history he got in a lot of trouble for smuggling something he should not have into the US. Yet when the FBI interviewed him he was able to rationalize it enough they dropped all charges. If you can link me to anything where Mckenna espouses advocacy of adherence to either the FBI or any powerful corporate institution working against people as a whole then I will be very very impressed. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

didn't you listen to his own words, they recruited me, then after 15years moved me to public relations

his words.

And certainly when I reached La Chorerra in 1971 I had a price on my head by the FBI, I was running out of money, I was at the end of my rope. And then THEY recruited me and said, “you know, with a mouth like yours there’s a place for you in our organization”. And I’ve worked in deep background positions about which the less said the better. And then about 15 years ago they shifted me into public relations and I’ve been there to the present.

And I’ve worked in deep background positions about which the less said the better.

why do you suppose he doesn't want to talk about his deep background work he did for them.

of course he not going to promote adherence to what the FBI would have considered subversives, would kinda defeated the point of him being undercover.

working for them goes against everything you say he speaks against, ie he speaks out of both sides of his mouth,or don't let the right hand see what the the left is doing.

he was a liar after 71 and should not be listened to.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


And you don't see the victim mentality in that ? They don't have our best interest at heart. Thats what you state. Why do you feel they should? Why do you need them to? Can't you take care of yourself. Isn't that the best course of action?' Better than thinking oh my they're all against me.

Hey hounddoghowlie.

Thank for your input.

To play devils advocate for a bit, can you explain what you think his motivation or agenda was in working for the FBI and how he actively was part of a conspiracy? Quotes from him, examples of how he is part of the conspiracy, etc, would greatly help your argument, rather than linking to and quoting one of the worst like:view count videos of Mckenna on youtube.

reply to post by ZeuZZ

To play devils advocate for a bit, can you explain what you think his motivation or agenda was in working for the FBI and how he actively was part of a conspiracy? Quotes from him, examples of how he is part of the conspiracy, etc, would greatly help your argument, rather than linking to and quoting one of the worst like:view count videos of Mckenna on youtube - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

simple he didn't want to go to jail. and he was not going to point out and say hey guys i now work for the FBI and everything i say is BS. of course your not going to find lectures where he promotes adherence to the man. like i said the point of turning him during and after that time frame was to use counter intelligence, and intel to infiltrate the subculture that was targeted.

and as far as the low view count, as stated time and time again here on ATS, not many people are going to sit and watch or listen to a youtube video longer than 15 20 mins.

notice that you videos are just about 3 mins, and are cut from longer videos, so sure their going to get high view counts.

Ok.

Your point is what?

Mckenna was an FBI conspirator doing ... erm ... what exactly?

Please explain your conspiracy theory in a clear way. Hopefully this time with quotes, references and evidence.

Fylgje
All conspiracies are crap? I guess there's no need coming back to ATS ever again!!

Right, because ATS is a paragon of truth. Here you can learn about Chemtrails, that George Bush and Queen Elizabeth and many others are reptilians, that millions upon millions of people are abducted by aliens each year, that "free energy" has been suppressed by Big Oil, that the sun is actually an electric light bulb, the earth is hollow and expanding, that nuclear submarines are stationed underneath the desert in Nevada, and that every kid still living in his Mom's basement has discovered the secrets to reality. Further, ATS is a prime source of political power and will lead the revolution and overthrow everyone in any sort of power whatsoever and turn it over to all-knowing fourth graders.