The tearing of the temple veil.

reply to post by WarminIndy


Personally I've never felt comfortable in a church, even my own...

Its cold... almost stale and stagnant...

I've never felt welcome at any church... all I ever felt was judgement

To each their own I guess

Akragon
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Personally I've never felt comfortable in a church, even my own...

Its cold... almost stale and stagnant...

I've never felt welcome at any church... all I ever felt was judgement

To each their own I guess

Then you have felt exactly what I am talking about.

It feels dead because spiritually it is dead. And not feeling welcome, yes, it's in the atmosphere because spiritually there is nothing welcoming there.

Akragon
But he did not say "go to the same building every week, and sit in the pews to sing hymns and listen to a preacher ramble on about scripture"

... and yet Jesus 'was in the habit' of going to the temple and being part of the organized worship service. 'In the habit' ... that's a weekly organized worship service .... in a building dedicated to worship.

Akragon .... I"m right there with ya' that it isn't necessary.
BUT ... it IS what Jesus did in His life.
If He didn't want people to do it, then He wouldn't have done it Himself. IMHO.

ETA .. And I should say that I prefer not to go and I don't anymore.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Im not so sure he was into that habit actually...

He went there to teach believers... I don't seem to recall the gospels saying anything about him going there to worship

Only to find the ones who believed so he could teach...

Honestly as a teen i was told by the preacher something that was told to me by angels when i was very young. After attending a few sundays i was told that GOD did not want me in church because i had much sin in my future and that i would never forfill my suffering on earth by being a member of the church. I was turned away and not accepted. Since then i have searched worldly and spiritually for reason for this. Today i have my answers and understand why. The point being that if you do not feel welcomed spiritually then perhaps it is not the church or the seemingly snoody people within but maybe there is a reason other than declaring the place spiritually dead. Anger and resentment are easy understanding and accepting suffering is hard.

Akragon
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Im not so sure he was into that habit actually...

He went there to teach believers... I don't seem to recall the gospels saying anything about him going there to worship

Only to find the ones who believed so he could teach...

The seder meal is a worship service.

Every thing began with "Blessed are you oh Lord our God, King of the Universe". And it's kind of a default that worship occurs in the temple.

"My Father's house shall be called a house of prayer". Prayer is part of worship.

John 4:
19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

Jesus was saying there would be no more temple, but those who worship must worship in Spirit and in truth. Even if you stay out of church and sit at home does not make you more spiritually wise. Remember that as the Son of David, and Jesus always referred back to the Psalms, David said "I was glad when they said to me, come to the house of the Lord".

Whether in church or out of church, the worship must still be in Spirit and in truth. And if what you are worshiping takes you away from knowing Christ as Messiah, Christ in the Message or Christ as the Word of God made flesh, then it takes you away from Spirit and truth.

What I see a lot of is this...

A lot of people know Christ in the message, but but not Christ in the Flesh. They say they know Christ in the Flesh, but not as Christ as the Messiah. And they say they know Christ as the Messiah, but not Christ in the message or Flesh. If anything takes you away from any of these, then you aren't worshiping Christ as Lord.

Are you worshiping the man or the message?

reply to post by WarminIndy


Neither...

I worship one God, his Father... Not the Fathers son

deadeyedick
Honestly as a teen i was told by the preacher something that was told to me by angels when i was very young. After attending a few sundays i was told that GOD did not want me in church because i had much sin in my future and that i would never forfill my suffering on earth by being a member of the church. I was turned away and not accepted. Since then i have searched worldly and spiritually for reason for this. Today i have my answers and understand why. The point being that if you do not feel welcomed spiritually then perhaps it is not the church or the seemingly snoody people within but maybe there is a reason other than declaring the place spiritually dead. Anger and resentment are easy understanding and accepting suffering is hard.

Who would tell you such a thing? Did a preacher tell you that?

First off, you don't even have a promise of tomorrow, none of us do, so to say such a thing as you might have that future, that's just wrong to do to anyone.

Someone said that God said this?

Akragon
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Neither...

I worship one God, his Father... Not the Fathers son

Then you aren't worshiping the Father, because the Son and the Father are one. And you know this one well..

John 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.

24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.

I and my father are one. If you worship the Father, then you worship the Son. And where was Jesus? At the temple for the Feast of Dedication.

This is Chanukkah. Jesus was in the temple for Channukkah service.

reply to post by WarminIndy


They are not the same... Jesus and the Father are one essence....

Not one and the same spirit...

Jesus also worshiped his Father, and I will do the same...

Thanks though, I don't buy into Christian beliefs of the trinity... its a fabrication of the church that holds no truth

reply to post by Akragon


I agree with Akragon on a lot of things. This is the one big thing we don't see eye to eye on. I'm not going to pound on you, Akragon. You already know all the scripture verses that we Christians have decided say that Jesus is God incarnate, so I won't bomb you with them again. Lemme' know if you ever change your mind on this matter.

FlyersFan
reply to post by Akragon

 

I agree with Akragon on a lot of things. This is the one big thing we don't see eye to eye on. I'm not going to pound on you, Akragon. You already know all the scripture verses that we Christians have decided say that Jesus is God incarnate, so I won't bomb you with them again.

Lemme' know if you ever change your mind on this matter.

We are all free to our own beliefs... and as you've stated, in the end we'll all find out anyways...

IF at that time I am to find out Jesus is in fact God... well I guess im wrong... I was only following what he said about God

The fact is the teaching of the trinity is all but missing from the bible in its earliest versions... Judaism teaches one God, though I don't personally believe it was the correct one...

And even the verses that reinforce the trinity were added at a later date likely by a zealous scribe...

I've often thought about making a thread about the council of Nicea... I believe Arius was correct... and he was outnumbered, and out voted by the priests that wanted their Saviour to be God as well as messiah... just so they could tie the OT prophecies into the New

Jesus makes it very clear he is less then then Father... so I can not be convinced of something that simply isn't there

Akragon
Jesus makes it very clear he is less then then Father...

I see it like this ...

The Father is the head with the brain .. Jesus is the hand .. the Holy Spirit is the foot.
They are all one body, but they all do what the brain (the Father) says.
It may be simplistic but that's the way I see it.

Anyways .. we'll find out when we are dead .. (kinda looking forward to it)

FlyersFan

Akragon
Jesus makes it very clear he is less then then Father...

I see it like this ...

The Father is the head with the brain .. Jesus is the hand .. the Holy Spirit is the foot.
They are all one body, but they all do what the brain (the Father) says.
It may be simplistic but that's the way I see it.

Anyways .. we'll find out when we are dead .. (kinda looking forward to it)

Perhaps...

Im more of the opinion that God is so unbelievably inconceivable to our pathetic little brains that we can't possibly begin to comprehend him... We're only now learning about the vast infinity of space, and if God made it all with a thought... Even Jesus can not compare...

I think the Father is one spirit which can't be divided because he is ALL... everything within everything...

Jesus is the Right hand man of the ONE... Part of God as we all are, but not God...

One must ask... IF Jesus is God... Do other species on other planets know of him as well? Considering there are people on this planet that haven't a clue of who he is?

Jesus is our way of knowing the mind of God, but the idea that he was actually God just doesn't add up in scripture or basic logic...

I mean no offence by this of course, again... to each their own...

I will never understand why a triune God is taught... I know all the theories on the trinity, but they just don't hold any weight according to the book...

Akragon
Jesus is the Right hand man of the ONE... Part of God as we all are, but not God...

That's a bit buddhist in thought ... and that could be true.
Some of what is in scripture does have a Buddhist ring to it.

Akragon .... it's all good.

and /OUT.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Actually its straight from the gospel

Mark 14
61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?

62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.