The tearing of the temple veil.

The veil separated the temple of man from the Holy-of-Holies and symbolized the sin of man separating them from god.

Isaiah 59:1–2

59 1 Behold, the Lord’s hand is not shortened, that it cannot save, or his ear dull, that it cannot hear;

2 but your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear.

When Jesus was crucified and upon his passing the veil was torn, opening the path to god to all and forgiveness of all our sins.

Matthew 27:50-52 (NIV)
50 And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.

After this it is said the god left the temple never to return.

Acts 17:24
24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands.

This to me give the Coptic texts even more weight and well as the traveled Jesus theory.

Saying 3 (pOxy. 654.9-21)
Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

So my question is why do people still worship in and call the church a house of god, when he does not dwell in a house made by man but rather divinity dwells with in the house of man......just a random thought....?

reply to post by ParanoidAmerican


They are naturally stupid and egotistical lol its Man

reply to post by ParanoidAmerican


Thats just the way it is! Stop questioning and go back to church and repent your sins!

(thats the reason)

reply to post by ParanoidAmerican


read Matthew 6 as well...

In fact I don't recall anywhere in the NT where it says gather in a building to worship God...

Then again, how else could they pass the collection plate

Yes.. but that's NOT the whole story ..

keep researching .. you've only done a mere observation part...

it means nothing to anyone especially those outside of our faith.. and even to some within the faith itself...

Keep researching to find the diamonds in the rough...

ParanoidAmerican
The veil separated the temple of man from the Holy-of-Holies and symbolized the sin of man separating them from god.

Isaiah 59:1–2

59 1 Behold, the Lord’s hand is not shortened, that it cannot save, or his ear dull, that it cannot hear;

2 but your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear.

When Jesus was crucified and upon his passing the veil was torn, opening the path to god to all and forgiveness of all our sins.

Matthew 27:50-52 (NIV)
50 And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.

After this it is said the god left the temple never to return.

Acts 17:24
24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands.

This to me give the Coptic texts even more weight and well as the traveled Jesus theory.

Saying 3 (pOxy. 654.9-21)
Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

So my question is why do people still worship in and call the church a house of god, when he does not dwell in a house made by man but rather divinity dwells with in the house of man......just a random thought....?

reply to post by ParanoidAmerican


There are a lot of other strange things going on with Christianity, especially in the United States. It seems to have been hijacked by radicals over here that more often than not practice and preach the opposite of what they are supposed to be worshiping.

In fact, I just heard our Episcopal bishop talk about how in Africa, the congregations are growing full of level-headed people, but in the West, the only people left are insane radicals. I guess that is the case with other churches as well.

I don't like the situation at all, there seems to be no place for moderates to set up camp.

reply to post by Akragon


I am not sure which portion you mean but the portion I love from there is Mat 6:24..

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Mammon means money or riches.

reply to post by ParanoidAmerican


like I said my friend... just read it...

Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

OP a simple word study in the new testament on church will spell it out for you . Its a spiritual building and every true believer is a member of it weather or not they have gone to a man made church ,ie. building or denomination ... Where two or more are gathered in my name ,there am I in their mists .....The early believers came together in their homes ....peace

I don't think whatever is quoted really concerns the reason for the separating of God by the veil from man in the Temple and importantly the rending of the veil. Perhaps the veil itself is a metaphysical analogy.

If it is, then its about 'old Judaic pre Christian belief - which exclusively obsessed on the transcendent holiness of God and man's nothingness in face of him. The priests taught that God was above, beyond and independant of the material universe - where man dwells. However Judaism today is not fixed and rigid and dependent solely on ancient texts but its a living tradition that has seen constant growth for almost two thousand years. Much of its beliefs, as from the Zohar were not really drawn together until the thirteenth century.

When one leaves the essence of Judiac belief and makes a personal relationship with God the veil is torn and the way open. The bible is secret within secret and perhaps part of its fascination for some is that of seeking these secrets.

Akragon
reply to post by ParanoidAmerican

 

like I said my friend... just read it...

Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

Alms is charity given to the poor.

And the two men, one Pharisee and the other Publican, both went into the temple to pray. The Publican was justified because he smote his breast and repented while the Pharisee bragged about how much better he was. It's not about where you pray, but how you pray.

The thing about being in their homes, given the situation that they started out in small groups that had to hide because they might get killed by the Romans, kind of led to that.

The Church at Rome and all seven churches of Asia were actually regular buildings. And considering what was around them, the pagan temples and whatnot, there had to be a safe place.

Going to a building just means you are part of a community.

reply to post by Shiloh7


I would agree with that entirely, but there is descriptions of the physical veil. Josephus tells us that it was 40 cubits tall and 4 inches in thickness, horses tied to each corner could not tare it, and Exodus tells us it was made of fine twisted linens. Other than that I agree with you.

Akragon
In fact I don't recall anywhere in the NT where it says gather in a building to worship God...

It's implied ... live by the example Jesus taught ... and He went to a designated building to worship the Father. (in addition to worship constantly through his life outside the building, of course).

Luke 4:16 He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read ....

reply to post by ParanoidAmerican

When Jesus was crucified and upon his passing the veil was torn, opening the path to god to all and forgiveness of all our sins.

I don't think that the Bible gives any significance to the veil being torn.
It is probably a device to show that Jesus' passing did not go unnoticed, where even the temple took note and was sad.

After this it is said the god left the temple never to return.

There is a description in the literature of the voices of angels near the temple being heard saying, "Let us depart this place".
Then going out the East gate to the Mount of Olives.
I seem to remember the story as being found in Josephus in connection with the temple's destruction by the Romans.

So my question is why do people still worship in and call the church a house of god, when he does not dwell in a house made by man but rather divinity dwells with in the house of man......just a random thought....?

Jesus talked about his church.
The word Jesus used means the congregation.
So it is implied in its name that people gather.
It is convenient to have a building for that purpose.

I think of churches as spiritual power houses. It does not matter the shape but only the measure of hearts within a gathering no matter the place. If you really want to get to know GOD then pick up that cross and give up the ghost. until then it is a guessing game of sorts in that clues are all around us.

FlyersFan

Akragon
In fact I don't recall anywhere in the NT where it says gather in a building to worship God...

It's implied ... live by the example Jesus taught ... and He went to a designated building to worship the Father. (in addition to worship constantly through his life outside the building, of course).

Luke 4:16 He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read ....

Don't you think he was just following what the religion he was brought up into?

While its true he went to the temple to teach... Somehow I doubt he sat and sang hymns to God as churches do these days...

He taught to pray to God in private, not openly...

Churches might be part of a community, but they are not where "God lives"... as it is taught to many Christians... including the GF

Akragon
Don't you think he was just following what the religion he was brought up into?

Possibly.

He taught to pray to God in private, not openly...

I think He taught both. 'Where two or more are gathered in my name .... ' ... remember that?
And he put Peter in charge of 'his Church'. (gotta have people getting together to make a church)
It looks to me like he encouraged private prayer AND prayer for people getting together.

Whatever works best for the person .. whatever brings them closer to truth and God.

I guess we'll find out for sure when we are dead.

reply to post by ParanoidAmerican


"And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near." -Hebrews 10:25

It is true that Christians can worship anywhere. A building is not needed; however, a church is more than just a house of worship. Church is also a place for Christian fellowship and charity.

Church can feel like a breath of fresh air. The world sucks. It's nice to have one day where you get together with fellow believers to recharge. It is also a place to go for spiritual learning (sermons/Sunday school) or when you need help. And, yes, even worship.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Church back then was just the group of people who believed... not a building

And peter traveled he didn't go to one building every Sabbath to pray...

Again if we look over Matthew 6... you see what is done in the churches of todays world, which is exactly what he said not to do...

5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

He tells us specifically how to pray to the Father in one of the most important sermons of his ministry...

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly

And right afterwords you see what the church communities of Christianity do every sunday (or Saturday depending on your belief)

But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking

Sounds like the hymns I remember in church back in the day... or even the hail Mary's that are given to catholics doesn't it?

Perhaps he taught to pray in groups when asking for a common cause...

But he did not say "go to the same building every week, and sit in the pews to sing hymns and listen to a preacher ramble on about scripture"

Akragon




Churches might be part of a community, but they are not where "God lives"... as it is taught to many Christians... including the GF

Well that's a different thing altogether. We don't say God lives in a building, because the Bible is clear in "God dwells in temples not built by man's hands".

And I don't know how many Christians are taught that, I was taught that the church is just where you gather as part of a community. But I do know this, you can feel different things in the atmosphere when you do go into different places. For instance, you do feel a different atmosphere in a bar than in a church.

Even in some homes you can feel differences. So there is something to spiritual environments, whether those are good or bad places, but you definitely can feel something. "Something is in the air", and yes, you can feel it. Whatever spiritual force is there, you can feel it. Some people just don't realize that.

When we say God is there, it's because you can feel something so different that it causes you to be peaceful. I think you might know what I am talking about, in your own home do you feel a different atmosphere than someone else's home?