Quit Complaining -- $100K-Plus Earners Pay 72% of Federal Income Taxes

xuenchen
reply to post by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

 

But what if Bob is an accountant or an engineer and has no control what *his* boss does?

Is he a victim too?

And what if Bob is fed up with throwing hot dogs to every breadless pauper and then gets spit on for trying to help.

That's real gratitude ain't it.

If Bob is an accountant or engineer alone, then Bob is not part of the wealthy elite I am referring to. Bob would then be middle class.

Maybe every "breadless pauper" doesn't want hot dogs thrown at him. Maybe they want work to be feasible and worthwhile. Maybe those paupers are fed up being thrown hot dogs like they are some zoo animal. Maybe they want work that will pay them enough to buy real food that is healthy instead of living off scraps Bob tosses them.

xuenchen
And what if Bob is fed up with throwing hot dogs to every breadless pauper and then gets spit on for trying to help.

That's a strawman but even if he is fed up, what is he going to do?

Both Tom and Bob are being taxed. Bob is complaining that Tom pays less and Tom is complaining that Bob has more left over after being taxed. They are both correct.

kosmicjack
How about - instead of playing into the 1%/99% game on who pays what - we just abolish the IRS and come up with something more practical and less intrusive/abusive for all citizens?

Tax all banks 20% of their profits.

reply to post by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf


Do the rich not also pay these things only in a much grander scale?

Perhaps I am getting tied up in the word "share". I think of it as a portion of a person's work that is their just contribution to an endeavor, or their just reward or the spoils after an endeavor.

If three people start a company and each contribute $20K at start up that is their share, their reward should be an equal sharing of the profits.

However, if one person gives $50k, one person gives $10K, and one person gives nothing, I cannot see how an equal sharing of profits would be legitimate.

I am not trying to be argumentative. I am truly trying to understand the other side of this thought process. I have no skin in the game. I worked for 20+ years and enjoy a small retirement that meets my needs. I do not pay taxes as I was wounded in combat while in Iraq. I am still interested in peoples opinions on this matter.

reply to post by 200Plus


the rich are able to dominate every aspect of people's financial lives. Imagine playing monopoly, it is far into the game and one guy holds all the cards, the entire board is his, and every time someone lands on a space, they pay their $200 for passing go to him as rent. Unless the rich guy agrees to reset the game, noone else has any hope of having something.

Or, think of hogs at a trough. The biggest hogs DO ACTUALLY starve the rest out by staying and gorging. Unless the farmer intervenes, the big ones will always be bigger because they get all the food to grow.

I remember the naive youth in the late 90's where I actually HOPED for a 1929 style collapse. Why? because I realized then that the game needed reset. little did i realize that unlike the 30's, this time the rich got to keep it all instead of a reset. They used bailout funds to buy commoditites. this pushed the prices that we all pay for everything higher. So, there is NO WAY for America to be the land of opportunity for people because the rich few keep gobbling everything up and it has NOT trickled down.

Would you actually choose to play in a rigged game with NO CHANCE of winning? where by some fluke, you actually do start winning, and all of the sudden, the rich notice it, and change the rules midway through. And whammo, they have now such a huge portion of the spoils there is no chance things will change.

Or, picture playing no limit poker. 5 guys. One guy has 100k in chips, the other 4 have 20k in chips. And the rich guy figured out that instead of leaving it to chance, he can go 'all in' every hand. Since noone else can call his bet, he wins. hand after hand.

Or, picture an MMA fight where the guy knocked out has to keep fighting. The opponent waits until he opens his eyes and knocks him out again. never giving him the chance to even get to his feet.

that is the reality today, the rich got bailed out, we got sold out.

reply to post by kosmicjack

Excellent. How about a flat tax? Steve Forbes campaigned on that once upon a time.
His plan made sense.

The rich absolutely should pay more.
The reality is that the super rich don't really pay any taxes, they avoid, evade and keep their money elsewhere.
Forget about regular people earning 10k to 100k, it is the millionaires and billionaires who are crippling the economy by not paying into the system which means the gap has to be plugged by everyone else.

stargatetravels
The rich absolutely should pay more.
The reality is that the super rich don't really pay any taxes, they avoid, evade and keep their money elsewhere.
Forget about regular people earning 10k to 100k, it is the millionaires and billionaires who are crippling the economy by not paying into the system which means the gap has to be plugged by everyone else.

They don't pay any taxes? Did you even read the first two posts on this thread?

reply to post by eNumbra


You give this as an example:
"Tom makes 20,000 a year and pays 10% in taxes, that's 2,000
Bob makes 200,000 a year and pays 5% in taxes, that's 10,000.
Bob still pays the government the same as 5 toms, so what should we do?"

That doesn't seem fair at all. In reality the numbers look like this:
Bob/$20,000-pays $0 taxes
Tom/$200,000--pays $56,000 taxes

Bob wants more money he needs to earn it instead of wanting the Government to take more from Tom to give to him!

reply to post by HanzHenry


That makes a lot of sense really.

But why stop at simply saying "pay their share". Why not be honest and say "give up all they have".

Put a rich man and a poor man on an island together with nothing and eventually the poor man will be working for the rich man. We can blame society and a myriad of other things, but it boils down to the individuals will to achieve (and inheritance does not hurt ).

Do you not believe that if we evened the playing field today the same people would have the same lifestyles 50 years from now? Spenders would spend, savers would save, and investors would invest.

Maybe I cannot get my point across without sounding like I am blaming people or sounding like a self centered elitist. I apologize for that. I just see it as human nature for people to fill a niche and some peoples lot in life are not where they would like it to be.

yamammasamonkey
Bob wants more money he needs to earn it

What?

No really, what? Are you Posting While Intoxicated?

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

xuenchen
reply to post by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

 

But what if Bob is an accountant or an engineer and has no control what *his* boss does?

Is he a victim too?

And what if Bob is fed up with throwing hot dogs to every breadless pauper and then gets spit on for trying to help.

That's real gratitude ain't it.

If Bob is an accountant or engineer alone, then Bob is not part of the wealthy elite I am referring to. Bob would then be middle class.

Maybe every "breadless pauper" doesn't want hot dogs thrown at him. Maybe they want work to be feasible and worthwhile. Maybe those paupers are fed up being thrown hot dogs like they are some zoo animal. Maybe they want work that will pay them enough to buy real food that is healthy instead of living off scraps Bob tosses them.

Ohhh now you tell me !!

Maybe I'm talking about the whiners that make $9 an hour and have a college degree.

So you say it's all the 1%er's

reply to post by xuenchen


As a citizen of the US it is disheartening to read these post over and over spewing the same anger. This is based on a divisive government perpetuating the concept of their necessity to repair the illegitimate ills of the country. ie: If there is no problem we will create one to give us a reason to take your hard earned money, take our cut, keeping us in charge, giving it to the other side of the argument. If that isn't enough then we will disguise your purchased vote with a program or in some cases free money. This in effect keeps you right where they need you, dependant on them, the kind and philanthropic government.

Black Versus White
Rich Versus Poor
Gay Versus Straight
Muslim Versus Christians
Men Versus Woman
immigrant Versus Citizen
Faith Versus Atheist

Everything you see on television, radio, movies, print and now the internet is slanted to perpetuate the divisive separation of the citizenry. The day we band together and vote for changes based on equality and quit taking from one to give to another that's when real change will take place. Of all the trillions of dollars collected by the government for decades what has changed? Has any of the above gotten better? Are you still fighting for equality? Are you ready to change your mindset yet?

In this conversation of taxing the citizenry it seems to be ignored the taxes we pay on everything else. It's incredible the amount of money collected in everything from property tax to excise tax on tires. Fuel tax in most states in about 50 cents a gallon or more, we burn about 365 million gallons a day. And the government would like you to think the oil companies make all the money. I submit the taxes paid every day by John Q Citizen is equal to their income tax. If you rent your rent pays all or part of the property tax, no landlord will pay it gratis.

You will never be successful as long as you fall into the real conspiracy of life in America, the divisive program perpetuated by your government. I can't tell you how many "Rich" people I have met that came to this country will no help, literally lunch money in their pocket worked their butts off and parlayed that into wealth. They didn't fall into the us against them mentality. If you depend on the government for your subsistence you're setting yourself up for failure. We all started working for someone else saving until we could try going off on our own. If we fail go back and start over but I wanted to depend on me not an over taxing government, or a large company where I was a number and a percentage of the payroll.

I don't hold it against someone that's rich, you find your way, I will find mine, if you want to work 40 hours a week for someone else and that satisfies you, great, if you work overtime and invest in real estate great, I don't want what you have earned. It's yours not mine. Thank God I am not in a country like Afghanistan with little hope for anything but a dirt sandwich, green tea, and violence at every turn.

Thank God I was born in America with better chances for a great life than anywhere else in the world. Change your mindset, get away from division it takes away from every positive thing you could bring to yourself through your own efforts.

reply to post by MarlinGrace


Good post.

Makes sense.

The divide tactics always set the stage.

eNumbra
despite the fact that Bob can obviously stand to pay more.

I love it when Progressives think they get to set the standard as to what someone can afford to pay.

The view from way up high must be amazing.

reply to post by MarlinGrace


the system has been gamed by the really really rich. there isnt enough money for every hard working person to be rich.

It is like 12 sticks but only 3 carrots being dangled in front of a dozen donkeys. no matter how hard each works, only a few will get a carrot.

I think the rich should be taxed at the same rate as the working class. after adjusted for living expenses.

No loopholes, no deductions, nothing.

And have it based where every area has an average cost of living adjustment. meaning that if you live in an area where it takes $30,000/yr just to support yourself, tax everything equally above that amount. If you live somewhere like NYC, tax everyone equally at the income above $50,000 for example.

macman
Progressives

That's cute.

The standard of living dictates what people can pay. If you can afford luxuries, you can afford to pay more.









That would be the definition of afford.

payroll tax is 50% of tax revenue. EVERYONE pays payroll tax. When I worked at the ice cream shop for 5 buck an hour, guess what, the Govt got a cut. Why does my boss who owns a very small business with 5 employees, have to pay corp tax yet GE, exxon, google walk away with 0% due??? theres 2 trillion in profits held overseas, holding up those island economies...how about they help hold up the US economy.

most products at the supermarket are owned by a handful of corporations. most channels on tv are owned by a handful or corporations. most wealth in the world is owned by a handful of people.

profits are up, wealth is doubling but they cry they are being taxed to much during the lowest tax rates in the history of tax rates.

I say cut off food stamps, cut off medicad, cut off S.S, cut it all off . the people will rise against the corporations who have been getting away with low wages for too long.

HanzHenry
reply to post by MarlinGrace

 

the system has been gamed by the really really rich. there isnt enough money for every hard working person to be rich.

It is like 12 sticks but only 3 carrots being dangled in front of a dozen donkeys. no matter how hard each works, only a few will get a carrot.

I think the rich should be taxed at the same rate as the working class. after adjusted for living expenses.

No loopholes, no deductions, nothing.

And have it based where every area has an average cost of living adjustment. meaning that if you live in an area where it takes $30,000/yr just to support yourself, tax everything equally above that amount. If you live somewhere like NYC, tax everyone equally at the income above $50,000 for example.

Never will everyone be "Rich" just like everyone will not have the jumpshot like Jordan. But you can make your life better and be a better basketball player if you don't focus on the fact you will never be as good a Jordan. This is the mindset that needs to be changed, the government can't make my jumpshot better by lowering the hoop or making the hoop bigger for me or my team. Yet it's an acceptable practice by the government, and they perpetuate the myth this is the correct thing to do.

Of course the system is rigged, ever prefer to work with one friend over another?

Until the people get together and vote in different political bodies the tax situation will never change. They use it (tax law) to support their power. The second it's goes to a flat tax it's fair for everyone, and no adjustments can be made by a bureaucrat to benefit a person or party. I dwell on making my situation better by my own efforts not by the efforts of others.

Just the fact you are on this board and involved in discussion puts you ahead of most of the millions in my country. Use that brain power to improve yourself and don't wait for someone else to do it for you.

simple data test....
person A makes 50,000 a year
person B makes 5,000,000 a year
there is a tax of 20% of income on both
person A pays 10,000, and person B pays 1,000,000 a year
total for both people 1,010,000 in taxes paid
however, person B paid 99.01% of the total taxes

you would think person B was overtaxed, but he paid the same % as person A...this is why this data point is used, it cloaks the truth income of the wealthy and makes it seem unfair, when it is not.