Bundy Militia Used Women As Human Shields

reply to post by OpinionatedB


and that is your prerogative and no one should force you to do otherwise, and that's my whole point. you made that decision for yourself. you didn't make it for anyone else but yourself and no amount of arguing the point will ever, and i do mean ever, give you the right, to force anyone else to make that decision against their will. governments try to force people to do things against their wills every day, and look how that turns out? does yet more of the same solve the problem? hardly. never has and never will. that's why the same tactic is used when the gov is after something, because they know people can be trusted to act on their instincts which the gov then uses as an excuse to slaughter. that is a fact of history.

we have two choices here -- either make choices that lead to true peace and freedom or make choices that lead to false peace and slavery.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


What are you doing out of the kitchen then? Seriously, women have been fighting to get on the front lines, because that is where they want to be, not because men want to hide behind them.

reply to post by undo


Fair enough. I consider the thought indefensible, and you will steadfastly continue trying to defend it - form a distance, of course, as you specify, rather than from the lines. It was my mistake for thinking that you meant you'd "defend with your life" when you said you'd defend with your life. If your husband isn't at the ranch facing the bullets, I guess we need not fear the raging amazon coming out in you.

I reckon this is the point where we need to just agree to disagree, and leave it laying there.

nenothtu
reply to post by undo

 

Fair enough. I consider the thought indefensible, and you will steadfastly continue trying to defend it - form a distance, of course, as you specify, rather than from the lines. It was my mistake for thinking that you meant you'd "defend with your life" when you said you'd defend with your life. If your husband isn't at the ranch facing the bullets, I guess we need not fear the raging amazon coming out in you.

I reckon this is the point where we need to just agree to disagree, and leave it laying there.

no, the point was that american women are just as likely to want to solve the looming issues as the american men, and why wouldn't they? it's their future, their husband's future. the future of their offspring and their future generations. you act like i'm speaking a foreign language you don't understand, so let me put it simply -- no one wants to be starving and poor with no future, no one. that includes american women. if you don't understand that then maybe you could telll me what language you do speak? from here, it sounds like "only my world view matters and screw you", and i don't think that's a solution to anything.

TKDRL
reply to post by OpinionatedB

 

What are you doing out of the kitchen then? Seriously, women have been fighting to get on the front lines, because that is where they want to be, not because men want to hide behind them.

I'm going to break this to you as gently as I can, but she was IN the kitchen when she typed that.

Women and multi-tasking - gotta love it!

I guess with women at the front lines and all, you and I can just go grab a beer and a deck of cards. Looks like it's all under control now... and I'm not going to fight either with or against them, get all distracted or worried about their welfare, and maybe zig when I should've zagged. Last time was bad enough, and I'm not eager to repeat it. When they're quite done with the Petticoat Wars, or Cow Wars, or whatever war it is they're wanting to fight, then I'll stand back up, clear my throat, and get back to work.

How's the fishing where you're at?

reply to post by undo


I reckon my language must be Martian, and yours must be Venusian. I think there's a book about that somewhere.

maybe you could telll me what language you do speak? from here, it sounds like "only my world view matters and screw you"

You need to get a better dictionary for translating Martian to Venusian. the one you're using has let you down. "Pick your battles, make them count, and if you insist on dying, make sure it's for something worthy of your death" doesn't translate to "screw you" in any language I'm aware of.

Maybe we just differ on whether Bundy's Cows are worth dying for.

reply to post by nenothtu


Touche. One thing I can say about you two, is you can take it and dish it back with the best of them, and alwasy great at making me laugh while trying to make your point.

Did you listen to the interview with the sherrif that sparked this whole thing out of curiousity?

reply to post by nenothtu


i'm going to defend you and i expect you to defend me in return. i don't think it works how you think it works. you basically throw the baby out with the bath water. it's either a woman knows her place, which you then define, or she ain't gonna get no help from you. well fine and dandy. i'll still defend your right to view women however you wish, but don't expect me to sit here while people lie about each other and not say something because the end result of that track is dead people, and i don't believe in the death penalty from either side. this situation can be resolved without death or suffering. and it must be resolved wihtout death or suffering. i ain't gonna lie, sorry.

it's a lie that the bundy people had women as human shields. don't lie and we'll be fine.

undo
reply to post by nenothtu

 

WHEN i defend someone, that doesn't mean i agree with or don't agree with their choices. it just means i'm defending them, just as i would defend the gov workers who might be hurt in such a scenario. back during the occupy wall street protests, people started calling for the slaughtering of folks who worked in the IRS and other government offices. i was adamantly against that, not because i agree with the amount of taxes being paid but because i do not approve of murdering/killing/ or any variation thereof, of other sentient beings. i would appreciate it if you would stop trying to characterize me as a willing participant in milita activities. i'm a willing participant in keeping people from lying about each other. i'm a willing participant in stopping the internet gossip that poisons people into being enemies of each other.

it's as simple as that

This.

I'm not quite sure why you would defend an armed standoff, all the while claiming to be anti-murder/killing of any sort. Are you aware that armed standoffs often result in murder/killing of some sort? That's why the standoff-ees so frequently arm themselves.

It makes the murder/killing of some sort so much easier.

The government brings their guns, and the militia brings their guns, and the cheering section off in the corner chants "I can see how THIS is going to turn out well!". Then when the killing starts, they act all shocked, and can't quite figure out what brought it to that.

The cows go "MOO!"

... and Bundy giggles all the way to the bank over his own little private (and unpaid!) army fetching and stepping for him.

reply to post by nenothtu


1) i don't have a problem with bundy's cows or his wealth

2) i do have a problem with characterizing american women as incapable of making choices for themselves.

3) i don't agree with the bundy scenario and said so earlier, and also outlined for like the 10th time, that i am trying to prove that they didn't use their women as shields and that if their women get up in the front, even 1 or 2 of them, that doesn't mean they are using them as shields but it does indicate that american women have something to say in the matter!

4) just admit you are trying to make those people look like they are guilty of something they didn't do. and characterize american women as being incapable of making decisions for themselves. how the heck do you think we got the right to vote? by snivelling behind our husband's trousers? two can play this game!

reply to post by Android616


Well lets be honest....

The type of people supporting this common freeloading land stealing bundy family will be the types who use women as bait and defense.

I watched the videos of this farce and all I can say is....scum...the lot of them!!

projectbane
reply to post by Android616

 

Well lets be honest....

The type of people supporting this common freeloading land stealing bundy family will be the types who use women as bait and defense.

I watched the videos of this farce and all I can say is....scum...the lot of them!!

^case in point!
now they are scum. this all rising from a comment that sheriff made that people are only half reading. ignoring the part where he said he TRIED TO CONVINCE THEM TO DO IT but they didn't want to, is apparently lost in this conversation of WE MUST LIE, WE MUST LIE WE MUST LIE. don't you know how to tell the truth?

dang, this is not making you look any better, i can tell ya that.

reply to post by undo


He never even got a chance to submit his idea actually. Let me see if I can find the interview, it's in one of the threads. herp derp to me, it's on the first page here

reply to post by TKDRL


Which interview? I listened to a couple of them. he made it sound like there was some support for the notion, but not quite enough. Now, it could have been all showmanship and lies, or it could have been fact. Either way, it was a bad idea in my opinion, and my opinion of Mack plummeted.

Thank you for the compliments. I bear no ill will towards either you or undo. Sometimes I go over the top and get all hyeprbolic in an attempt to make my points, and not everyone gets that. I'd buy you a beer - but not undo. Not that I don't like her, but I believe she'd be a scary drunk!

I just want y'all to know the debate ain't nothing personal for me. well, it kinda IS, but that's not either of your faults, and it's not personal against you all. A long time ago and a long way away I had my dealings with Martyr Makers, Inc., and it left a bad taste in my mouth. I wasn't even slightly happy about it. Outraged doesn't begin to cover it. I cannot fathom the mindset of a man who would say "hell yeah, put MY wife and daughters in harm's way, and if they get killed, well, that's just GOLD!" I really don't think the man has a clue what he was asking for, and if he does, he's a psychopath, pure and simple.

35 years or so down the road, mine still gives me a twinge when I think about it, so I don't any more than I have to, which is usually about once a day. The guilt you can carry for things you didn't do, things OTHER folks did, and which you had no control over, can amount to a hell of a load, and how much more so if you ASK for it, right out loud?

Anyone ASKING for that has no clue what they are asking for, or the life sentence they impose on themselves when they do.

reply to post by nenothtu


life sentence? who is asking for a life sentence? i'm just asking people to tell the truth about the comments that this thread is based on. reason: i don't want this to escalate. if you don't want it to escalate and care about those people at all, then consider that lying about what they actually did do, is not a good way to make sure it doesn't escalate.

common sense!

reply to post by nenothtu


The one linked above. He said there were women there who agreed with his idea and would have done it if it was proposed. Which it wasn't, because he was late that day. Basically the OP article is a lie. My first instinct would be to tell the ladies in my life to stay home safe and sound, but most of them would be grabbing their gun and telling me to piss off lol.

nenothtu

p.s. i don't drink alcohol, so it's okay if i'm not invited to drink it. i will toast you and your wife and your continued happiness with this cup of black coffee! to nenothtu and opinionatedb! even if not agreeing with your mischaracterization of those people has caused you to ostracize me, SO BE IT!

undo
reply to post by nenothtu

 

life sentence? who is asking for a life sentence? i'm just asking people to tell the truth about the comments that this thread is based on. reason: i don't want this to escalate. if you don't want it to escalate and care about those people at all, then consider that lying about what they actually did do, is not a good way to make sure it doesn't escalate.

common sense!

No, not you - the folks wanting to put the women in front to make martyrs.

The truth is this: Mack had a "bright" idea. he didn't get there in time to enact it, but according to him he floated the idea and got some support for it. He talks about "several women", and one lawyer in particular, without specifying any further. He states right out loud that he'd put HIS wife and daughters on the line and watched them die, just to make martyrs and "show the world how ruthless these people are".

Yeah.

He's got no business at all calling OTHER folks "ruthless" after that.

I wonder just how many of his own he's watched die.

I wonder just how many of his own he's turned into a propaganda commodity by USING their death for political purposes.

I wonder how many of those women would have thought "yeah, this was a GREAT idea! GO ME!" as they watched their life drain away, or tried to push their guts back in with their own fingers.

Like I said, sumbitch has no clue... OR he's a psychopath. Likewise for his "volunteers" and supporters. "It's all fun and games until someone puts an eye out" doesn't begin to cover it. It's not a lark, a Sunday outing, or a video game, and I seriously doubt if any of those involved realize that at a gut level.

It would have been really easy for them to have had to figure that out in a hell of a hurry, but by then it would have been too late had it gone according to plan.

reply to post by undo


Not ostracize - I'd buy you a coffee for inclusion, just not a beer.

And not Starbucks, either. those folk are pure evil.

reply to post by nenothtu


yeah very dangerous thing they were doing. i agree with you on that 100%, and i think the gov could've handled it better as well. still doesnt mean "Bundy Militia Used Women as Human Shields." it doesn't matter if it sounds crazy to us, it still needs to be accurately reported