Freemasonry and the New Atlantis

Elijah23
reply to post by EviLCHiMP

 

Are you saying that you have access to information that is not available on the internet? Or that I do? ...

I am saying that assuming that your sources are the only sources out there is a mistake of ignorance.

reply to post by EviLCHiMP


Which I'd agree with but its a bit of a non-sequitur to what I had said... I'm just saying that when people give off any information as if it is fact then they should share their sources... So that others may be 'enlightened' ... Or get a chance at refining their discernment skills.. Surely that's what a place such as ATS is all about? ...

Read my posts if you like, I always give sources, authors, links or insight into how I arrived at whatever thought, conclusion or piece of knowledge I am sharing... That's the point, if you can't share those things then your information is only self serving and meaningless.

Elijah23
reply to post by EviLCHiMP

 

Which I'd agree with but its a bit of a non-sequitur to what I had said... I'm just saying that when people give off any information as if it is fact then they should share their sources... So that others may be 'enlightened' ... Or get a chance at refining their discernment skills.. Surely that's what a place such as ATS is all about? ...

Read my posts if you like, I always give sources, authors, links or insight into how I arrived at whatever thought, conclusion or piece of knowledge I am sharing... That's the point, if you can't share those things then your information is only self serving and meaningless.

I assure you that my beliefs are my own and I have no intention of asserting them on others.

I have seen your posts and I do respect your discernment, it's good that we have inquisitive eyes such as your own on these forums, truly.

reply to post by phinubian

Thanks for the reply. Regarding the Kybalion? Ive got a copy, but have put off reading it for awhile. Any advice on getting into it and its insights? Thanks in advance...MS

So I was in chat the other night and THE KYBALION was brought up since this is along the same topics I thought I would mention it. (and as synchronicity would have it someone did the same in video but if you care to read the text...interesting)

I read Bacon and Hall when I first started learning about Masons (I wanted to either be one or figure out what they were all about). I found that unless I had a lot of influence I would probably never see the upper echelon as most members never do as even with elite are the elitists...

Just dropping a link to a pdf of the Kybalion since it was mentioned and I didn't see it in pdf form in any of the other links.

www.hermetics.org...

reply to post by abeverage



One amusing detail from history is that in Sumeria Hermes Trimagistus as related to the Planet Mercury-Moon syncretism was rather the role of the Great Mistress Nisaba, she of the Lapis-lazuli tablet rather than emerald, Divine scribe, accountant and Architect.

Lady coloured like the stars of heaven, holding a lapis-lazuli tablet! Nisaba, great wild cow born by Urash, wild sheep nourished on good milk among holy alkaline plants, opening the mouth for seven reeds! Perfectly endowed with fifty great divine powers, my lady, most powerful in E-kur!

He has organised pure food-offerings; he has opened up Nisaba's house of learning, and has placed the lapis-lazuli tablet on her knees, for her to consult the holy tablet of the heavenly stars. In Aratta he has placed E-zagina at her disposal. You have built up Uruk in abundance, founded from little bricks, you who are granted the most complex wisdom!

Hymn to Nisaba A

Nisaba

Her sister was Ninisina who had the qualities of healer and physician that also get related to the planet, thus perhaps the two sisters, daughters of Urash, together represented the Mercury-Moon syncretism In later times Nisaba was displaced by Nabu of Western Semitic origins.

Nisaba in Egypt found correspondence in Seshat, again in later times displaced in role by Thoth, were she becomes his wife or some such. She was no messenger, but as the keeper of all knowledge could be consulted and provide instruction, it was the Moon as keeper of knowledge that preserves the Eye of Horus (Mercury) until reborn as Morning star and symbol of Divine Kingship, the basis for such of course relating to the cult of the scribes and aquired understanding, hence the Mercury-Moon syncretism, the keeper of knowledge in the darkness.

If the most ancient traditions are the best then it should be Nisaba/Seshat that is the great Architect of the Masonic Lodge

Nisaba seen left and Nabu right;




reply to post by KilgoreTrout


Freud talked nonsense...

Kantzveldt
Freud talked nonsense...

At times, certainly. For example, he was highly opposed to the notion of the subconscious, instead preferring the nonsense of racial and phylogenic memory in the analysis of dreams.

Interesting post. Francis Bacon was a really intriguing guy, probably one of the cleverest British people in history. There are even theories that he is in fact the author of Shakespeare's works. Without a doubt America's whole creation was based around Masonic foundations, just look at Washington DC and it's layout. There are so many things in plain sight which the majority of people don't even notice.

On tonight, live from 10PM Eastern time!

Show thread with listening information

reply to post by Kantzveldt


Interestingly Nisaba's counterpart in the Hindu Pantheon was Sarasvati given your predilection to a goddess in white who loves honey perhaps you would find it interesting.

The link here of course is within the Rig Veda which again is just a history (as is the Greek Pantheon and Mythology) of the antediluvian Aryan/Atlanteans worldwide culture.

BuzzyWigs
]New International Version
Jesus replied, "Truly I tell YOU, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done.

ete etc....and many more....
I don't see where his statement was solely to the apostles/disciples and not intended for everyone. But then again, the 'Biblical' Gospels are lacking.

It's right there in the scripture you quoted MANY times.He was only talking to the disciples.I've WROTE this many, many, many times here at ATS.Yahoshua CLEARLY stated when the disciples asked why he spoke in parables that couldn't be understood".

Matt 13:10"And the disciples came, and said to him, Why speak you to them in parables? He answered and said to them, Because it is GIVEN TO YOU to you to KNOW([not JUST beleive]the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is NOT GIVEN. For whoever HAS, to HIM shall be GIVEN, and he shall have more abundance: but whoever HAS NOT, from him shall be taken away even that he has.Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing SEE NOT; and hearing they HEAR NOT, neither do they UNDERSTAND."

BuzzyWigs
If you have detailed sources that refute this information...... Again - I'd appreciate having them posted here for [everyone's] reference.

The source is the scriptures themselves.I'll preface it with this though(and yes it's lengthy but the short version). I will post those scriptures because I think you are being sincere .I apologize if it seems I'm picking on you because I'm not.However I seriously doubt these scriptures will satisfy you.I've never seen ANYONE convinced about something against their belief.

The whole point of my post was denying ignorance.That "ignorance"just means you don't know.Not that you are evil or stupid.Most people know very little about the scriptures.It is an impossible book to comprehend as "teaching" because that is not it's purpose.

Outside of the new testimony there is very little to nothing credible written about Yahoshua attributed to those that had direct interaction with him. The gospels are eye witness accounts especially Johns(he was Yahoshua's right hand man not Peter) .That being said I've said it over and over the scriptures have one purpose an one purpose only.To testify of the Truth of Yahoshua...which means Yahweh (the creator God) IS salvation the deliverance from the realm of death...the very GOOD news...and that is ALL it is about and its sole purpose as a testimony.

It is a TESTIMONY of the most significant truth ever and it doesn't matter ONE bit if anyone believes it or not it still is in effect because It means ALL of mankind WILL be delivered from the realm of death (despite the many that are consternation against it because they believe in the eternal punishment of hell and others that are just disillusioned).

My suggestions is to "not" read it or study it believing it will reveal anything enlightening .That is NOT it's purpose and the evidence of using that method has had dire consequences through the many centuries since it was written and those that practice it's content as religion.

If you notice Yahoshua NEVER said he believed in the creator God the Father..he only KNEW the Father.Yahoshua did not not lack perception at all.He ALWAYS heard what the Father said because he was in the physical realm living a physical life AND in the Kingdom of God realm.That is what is meant that he descended from "above" and then ascended after the resurrection.He only left "above" in the sense to descend INTO the physical realm as the Son of Man(a son of the 1st Adam).

John 3:13And no man has ascended up to the heavens, but he that came down from the heavens, which is the Son of man which IS IN the heavens.

By being in both realms is the ONLY way he could "hear" the creator God the Father and then DO what he did.They are axiomatic.Those in the physical realm perceived what he did as miracles because the things he did were "from above" the laws of the physics of the physical realm.Yet in one sense they weren't New laws they were the same.

For example.Yahoshua turned a few gallons of water into wine.The same process happens all the time it just doesn't happen in an instant.He multiplied bread and fish..the same thing happens all the time when wheat is grown harvested and made into bread or fish spawn just not instantaneously. He raised people from the dead because the Kingdom of the creator God realm IS LIFE (the core meaning of spirit). The miracles were perceptions of things of the Kingdom of the creator God realm perceived in the physical realm..it was not "magic"..magic is something completely different and is mostly BS.

Yahoshua was saying the same thing I did.I am not saying anything new.He was not playing a game of mysticism.The things he said could not even be understood by the disciples until later.They just got a taste of it.If Yahoshua performed miracles because of what he learned from the Essenes or Gnostics other "ascended masters" then he was a complete fraud and not to be believed as credible person at all.He was a "putz" for not giving credit where credit was due however he wasn't an Essene or Gnostic or even an ascended master or even a Jewish Rabbi!!.He NEVER said anything like that..here are just a few of the scriptures:

John 7:15And the Jews marveled, saying, How knows this man letters, having NEVER learned? Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is NOT MINE, but his that sent me[the creator God the Father]. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. He that speaks of himself seeks his own glory: but he that seeks his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Jon 17:16They [the disciples]are not of the world, even as I AM NOT OF THIS WORLD .

John 8:23And he said to them, You are from beneath; I am from above: you are of this world; I AM NOT OF THIS WORLD

John18:16Jesus answered, My kingdom is NOT of THIS WORLD:

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, BEFORE Abraham was, I AM.

Luke 22:29And I appoint unto you[the disciples] a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Matt 17:1And after six days Jesus takes Peter, James, and John his brother, and brings them up into an high mountain apart, And he was TRANSFIGURED before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

John5:19Then answered Jesus and said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, The Son can do NOTHING of himself, but what he sees the Father do: for WHATEVER things soever he does, these also does the Son likewise.

John 5:30 By myself I can do NOTHING;

John 8:28 So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do NOTHING on my own but speak just what the Father has shown me.

John 14:10Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I DO NOT speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, LIVING in me, who is doing HIS work.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God comes not with observation: Neither shall they say, See here! or, see there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst

reply to post by Rex282

Because it is GIVEN TO YOU to you to KNOW([not JUST beleive]the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is NOT GIVEN. For whoever HAS, to HIM shall be GIVEN, and he shall have more abundance: but whoever HAS NOT, from him shall be taken away even that he has.Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing SEE NOT; and hearing they HEAR NOT, neither do they UNDERSTAND."

Quite.

And those of us who know, KNOW.
Whether you like it or not, it's very possible that 'he' was talking in metaphor to anyone EVER who could get it.

I believe I get it. I know I Know it. And it wasn't the disciples/apostles only for whom the supposed message was meant. It was ancient wisdom, and he was cautiously making it available to anyone who took the time and thought to sort it.

The gospels are eye witness accounts especially Johns(he was Yahoshua's right hand man not Peter)

And your source for this - claiming the final gospel that doesn't conform to the previous three supercedes them - is, what?

I thank you for accepting my ignorance and recognizing that it isn't my fault and that I am genuine.....

I'll check tomorrow. Right now I'm watching Cosmos (ep 6) and after that going to crash.

This idea of a new Atlantis is interesting since we don’t much know of the reality of the old Atlantis.

That said, I imagine we could assign America to be the heir of Atlantis and get away with it at least based on the hefty materialism of America only. In terms of the spiritual Kingdom it seems America and the west has much to be desired.

And mostly this analysis is based on the fact that the west probably has gone too secular.

This is unfortunate because originally the masons fostered secular ideas in order to combat the dogmatic tyranny of the Catholic Church and not because they were atheistic. Indeed, I remind that in order to be a mason one has to have a belief in a God. This secular extremism may have, though, in the west overreached and now is self defeating spiritually and replaced dogmatic Churchianity with dogmatic materialism something that may turn out to be as noxious as the theistic dogma of the old church of medieval times.

This may be why an obscure internet character use to post a mysterious aphorism a few years back on the Club of Rome forum that declared: the New Atlantis is in the Bay of Bengal.

This may inform us of the fact that the human race has to one day transcend the tyranny of concepts and reach for a common universal state of understanding to be the basis of any New Atlantis.

And what exactly is this understanding? Well actually it is something that is hard to put into words. Indeed, it can probably only be experienced inside the heart. But a sure sign of its actuality is when the human race ascends to at least an outward state of universal peace.... And that will be an indication that inner understanding amongst the race has been achieved.

reply to post by Rex282


Mate, what you're saying is mad and you're pulling people up for not sticking to scripture when most of what you say isn't even mentioned in the bible.... I don't even know how you seen this thread as you only seem to comment on religious threads, which this wasn't meant to be until you tried to ruin it, not with facts and a coherent argument like the OP but with your own theories and speculation of the bible, passed off as fact that we'd be stupid to doubt... I wish you all the best but I think you're in for a bit shock when you realise how wrong you really are....