Will Obama Have the Last Laugh Over Syria?

reply to post by TritonTaranis


You do understand that I can go to Wikipedia and change any piece of your credible information that I choose to? Don't use Wikipedia to present evidence, it is lazy and unreliable.

Laugh?

People were killed most likely either directly or indirectly as a result of this administration's waffling policies on Syria, empty threats and imaginary red lines.

There is nothing funny here.

IMO

I don't buy into the notion Obama has any say or influence in what's happening in Syria. That is between Assad and Saudi Arabia, with some minor support for Assad by Russia. SA is supporting the rebels. SA's Prince Bandar bin Sultan made it clear they want Assad out. In fact "Arab Spring" has been described as a wholly owned subsidiary of Saudi Arabia. Everywhere - Libya, Syria, Iran, Iraq - the Saudi's want to exert influence over in the Middle East has come under attack from 'within' by rebels and Al Qaeda. I don't doubt there is some kernel of legitimate rebellion by repressed people under brutal regimes, but there is also outside forces pushing buttons.

Breaking Up With the Saudis

The Prince: Meet the Man Who Co-Opted Democracy in the Middle East

How Saudi Arabia's 'Plan B' Became a Game Changer in Syria

Getting Serious About Saudi Arabia

reply to post by Liberal1984

Can you remove your first comment since it’s wholly unfair you receive more stars for attacking me over something I never said, nor meant to say either.

Seriously, "can you remove your comment because you got more stars than me?"

Just so you know, yes it did sound like you were in agreement that 80% of Americans supported bombing Syria.

Also on ATS most members are contrarians, they will disagree with you because of this personality trait and people will agree with them and star them from it. Now in this instance it just so happens that the first post in your thread made a very good point stating that this 80% number was BS.

I am really lost for words that you would ask a member to remove a post because he got more stars than you.

I know this topic needed authoring

No it did not, I linked to my own thread written over a year ago on basically the same subject, the relationship between Assad and Russia.

I will give you some constructive criticism however regarding the lay out and content of your thread.

The lay out needs some work, you would probably be better using the link function of the BB Code and remember to put in double line spaces as it makes it easier to read. As for the content the reason i found it confusing was because you went off on tangents about Crimea, 9/11 and 7/7 which really disturbs the flow of the thread, I found the last section of your OP particularly confusing and fail to see how it relates to Russia's relationship with Syria.

otherwise this would not have attracted the attention of a group of paid agents for derailing topics with unintelligent conversation

Please don't play the "those who disagree with me are disinfo agent's" card, its really quite silly and does not deter form any critiques of your OP.

You don’t just need to look at the other side of the coin to see it is the same members, who do this repeatedly

No, I just happen to think you and quite a few other people on this site are wrong, it has nothing to do with me being paid.

However what is really odd is that I think i actually agree with you in so far that if Assad falls Russia would have more to lose than America.

So are you saying that you think I am being paid to agree with you?

Look at the first 4 here, and barring one person (which might be the last one) look for also for a purple one worded reply.

errrr what?

a "purple one worded reply"?

What do you see? You should see dis-info agents at work. Here’s what to do… Check their other posts, see the negative impact they're having, then think “if they’re being paid to damage them, they’re probably worth me watching & counter participating”. Just a hint.

sigh.....

just no.

There are no paid disinfo agents on this site.

the2ofusr1
reply to post by TritonTaranis

 

You call Syria ,Russian's puppet friend and there may be some truth to that ,along the same lines that the US now has their puppet government in Ukraine .In your logic of Syrian minority Govt ,and the Ukrainian minority Govt.....both are in the same boat as there is a majority in both countries not wanting their present regime and are willing to have a civil war to hold onto power .Some how I look at this picture in a mirror and once you get past the hypocrisy you see two countries that elected their leaders that both US and Russia do not agree with but are not willing to let the people decide through elections .Well at least the US is not willing , and that is where the majority of hypocrisy lies . In this thread the Russian Naval base is important in another thread it is not .The argument are very selective when they use their hypocrisy ....

No actually Russia had there puppet in Kiev, that's what the maiden mass protests where about... the Ukrainian people removed him

Yanukovich''s own government then ousted him and voted in the interim government...

The people of Ukraine are not protesting for closer ties to the US the people of Ukraine want closer ties to the EU, the US is only speaking on behalf of the international community

So your logic is FLAWED!!!

It is exactly how i put it in both cases, Russia supporting MINORITY puppets and ethnics in BOTH countries and arming them

168617
reply to post by TritonTaranis

 

You do understand that I can go to Wikipedia and change any piece of your credible information that I choose to? Don't use Wikipedia to present evidence, it is lazy and unreliable.

Its neutral with backed up factual information, i quite like it...

a neutral point of view. This feature is especially popular for controversial topics, topics subject to changing current events or other topics where divergent opinions exist. To resolve the dispute, the interested editors will share their points of view on the article's talk page. They will attempt to reach consensus so that all valid perspectives can be fairly represented. This allows Wikipedia to be a place not only of information but of collaboration

reply to post by TritonTaranis


Well yes the past elected president was ousted by violent protesters .Yes he was friendly to Russia .Yes the newly Washington installed coup is being told to join EU .In all of this the elections in May will probably not be held ,because the people know what happened and they wont elect Washington's puppets ....In the mean time Washington will use every tactic to destabilize the country to make sure it happens ,even giving them weapons or sending some of their other goons in covertly .....

Obama did not want to go to war with Syria.

He never did.

He is a very intelligent person who used strategy vs. gut reaction.

He realized that his line in the sand requirements needed to be addressed so he did what he should do and have the Congress approve it.

the2ofusr1
reply to post by TritonTaranis

 

Well yes the past elected president was ousted by violent protesters .Yes he was friendly to Russia .Yes the newly Washington installed coup is being told to join EU .In all of this the elections in May will probably not be held ,because the people know what happened and they wont elect Washington's puppets ....In the mean time Washington will use every tactic to destabilize the country to make sure it happens ,even giving them weapons or sending some of their other goons in covertly .....

Pro Russian terrorists in the east are armed with Russian issues weapons and kit and are taking over government building by force, maiden atavists simply occupied and camped out without weapons and got shot at

BIG BIG difference, in not only number and popularity but protesters are protesters and small armed groups are NOT

There is also no installed coup to speak off

Russian claims that the Ukrainian authorities are illegitimate

The current Ukrainian president and government were approved by an overwhelming majority in the Ukrainian parliament (371 votes out of 417 registered) on 27 February 2014, including members of the Party of Regions.

That parliament was elected on 28 October 2012. The Russian Foreign Ministry at the time declared that the elections were held “peacefully, without any excesses and in line with generally-accepted standards” and “confirmed Ukraine’s commitment to democracy and the rule of law.”

The parliament which Russia called legitimate then can hardly be called illegitimate now.

So i guess that clears that little bit of disinformation up

In the mean time Washington will use every tactic to destabilize the country to make sure it happens ,even giving them weapons

Nobody other than Russia is seeking to destabilize the country and i think we all know why


The reality is that actions speak louder than words: escalation and de-escalation both start on the ground.

Since the crisis began, Russia has occupied Crimea with thousands of troops and staged a rigged referendum That is clearly escalation.

NATO has offered to support the Ukrainian government’s defense reforms and boost the transparency and democratic control of the armed forces. That is clearly not escalation

Russian forces have seized Ukrainian military bases and warships. That is escalation

NATO has sent civilian experts to advise Ukraine on the security of critical infrastructure. That is not escalation.

Russia has moved some 40,000 troops to Ukraine’s border, backed up by tanks, fighters, artillery and attack helicopters: that is escalation.

NATO has launched AWACS radar aircraft flights over Poland and Romania and sent six extra aircraft to the Baltic States to protect Allied airspace: not escalation

All you are doing is posting a twisted account that fits the western propaganda of the story . The protests at the start did have a sniper involved and that was in the phone conversation from Estonia to the EU counterpart .Anyone paying attention how these coup go would understand why the president fled the country .think Qaddafi in Libya . Then the phone call by Nuland that explicitly said who Washington wanted installed and that was before any sort of a vote if there was one took place.The could have used the opposition Government to act as intern until the May elections . One of the first things the Nazi leaders did was ship the countries gold off to the US .....Crimea held a referendum and decided to join Russia . The East has decided to do what the Nazies did in Kiev and occupy the Govt Buildings and were protesters . Now with guns getting involved the country is on the verge of a civil war . The same in Syria .There were peaceful protesters and snipers went in and started shooting . Webster Tarpley documented it . Then under Washington's direction the same rebels that over through Libya took arms and went off to Syria to over through that govt . All in what a senior CIA officer of a member of the State Dept. told us just after 9/11 .....

Interesting idea, but somewhat misinformed.....The reason Syria is happy to give up its chemical weapons stockpile, is the guarantee provided by the Russian nuclear arsenal, under terms of their defence treaty.

Far from being a sitting duck, Syria is now effectively a nuclear power should any outside force attempt direct intervention.....As for the 'insurgents', without outside assistance I doubt they will last long and as you have said yourself, any weapons provided to them by US/Saudi interests have a very high likelihood of ending up pointed at Israel.

reply to post by the2ofusr1


April 14, 2014 "ICH" - "WSWS" - Seven weeks after the right-wing coup in Ukraine, evidence is mounting that the Western-backed opposition at the time was responsible for the lethal shootings in Independence Square on February 20. This was suggested by a report on the German public television programme “Monitor” last Thursday evening, and which is available online (in German).

“According to research it appears unlikely that the shots on demonstrators came exclusively from the side of the old regime,” stated a press release made available prior to the program. In its report, “Monitor” raised the question, “Did radical oppositionists end up shooting in order to produce chaos and place the blame on Yanukovitch?” The presented videos, interviews and sound recordings suggest precisely this!

“Monitor” presented an extract of radio traffic from alleged sharp-shooters of the Yanukovitch regime, who were positioned on various rooftops in the centre of Kiev on February 20. The discussion was picked up by a Ukrainian radio amateur. One of the snipers can be heard asking his colleagues, “Hey guys, they are over there, on the right of the hotel Ukrayina. Who is shooting? Our people don’t shoot at unarmed civilians.” Then he calls, “Guys, there is a sniper who is aiming at me. Who is he aiming at from the corner? Look out.” A short time later someone else says, “Someone shot him. But not us. Are there more snipers over there? And who are they?” www.informationclearinghouse.info...

the2ofusr1
reply to post by the2ofusr1

 

“According to research it appears unlikely that the shots on demonstrators came exclusively from the side of the old regime,” stated a press release made available prior to the program. In its report, “Monitor” raised the question, “Did radical oppositionists end up shooting in order to produce chaos and place the blame on Yanukovitch?” The presented videos, interviews and sound recordings suggest precisely this!

Ukraine's special police were behind the killings of the maidan protesters in Kiev

Interior Minister Arsen Avakov told reporters that 12 members of the Berkut police had been identified as snipers and arrested. He presented what he said was new evidence from the shootings on 18-20 February, when 76 people were killed.

Cover ups

And he added that the previous authorities had tried to make the inquiry impossible by burning uniforms, dumping weapons and destroying documents.

Yanukovych had plenty a reasons to leave the country


Russian involvement

Ukrainian Security Service chief Valentyn Nalyvaychenko said that Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) operatives had been involved in planning operations against the protesters.

He added that the FSB had sent "tonnes" of explosives and weapons by plane to Ukraine.

The Ukrainian authorities also said that the killings of the protesters took place "under the direct leadership" of Mr Yanukovych.

They said arrest warrants had been issued for the ex-president and Oleksandr Yakymenko, Ukraine's former security service chief. Mr Yanukovych - who is now in Russia - has repeatedly denied the allegations.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Europe will now think twice before following Washington's orders www.youtube.com...

Again nothing will happen.

All the hype and online predictions and furor will end up being for not.

This happened with Iran and Egypt

Nothing ever happens.

On to the next prediction by the the so called truth community

Let's hope it can be worked out however I feel Russia isn't going to agree

Triton your Ukraine sniper information is wrong.it has been updated for months

German media is now reporting recordings of police radio during this time period and the police were adamant they were not firing on protestors or themselves!

Real sniper was one of these men from the fatherland political party

www.liveleak.com...

And as for Syria,the rebels never realy achieved anything but make a mess of the country and slaughter so many people on video camera

On radio 4 last night on the drive back home but they said rebels have been defeated,Assad still has control and support from most of the country and that was it realy! Flagship BBC program admitting it's over

The west makes billions each year selling arms to the Sunnis and it's Middle East allies

a reply to: TritonTaranis

Funny how we are friends with the most despotic regimes in the Middle East. Saudi is no friend of the west. From 9/11 to the islamifcation of Britains mosques and schools, Saudi Arabia has been there, pushing its warped version of Islam. Just because they buy our weapons to subdue their own populations and fund Al Qaida linked groups fighting Assad,shouldn't make them our allies. In fact the very opposite. Saudi is one of the least democratic countries in the world. They even named the country after the family name. (Not even lil Kim in N Korea went as far).

Yet you call these people allies, just coz they buy our bombs and jets? Ignore all the bad stuff.

It is so sad and interesting at the same time that there are still people who back up a bunch of hired terrorists supported by some of the most corrupted dictatorships in the world to destroy a legal legitimate government and to fiercely butcher innocent man woman and children of Syria....Saudi scum bags along with the others involved in this devilish act will soon pay for their crimes, big time....I have a hard time imagining anyone having the last laugh over this inhumane issue.The arm dealers who sell weapons to the Saudis think they do but they are so wrong.Only time will tell.