religion was inevitable

In the evolution of our human race, development of religion was an inevitable process. Religion has been an inevitable and important step in our endeavour to understand our universe and ourselves, life, death, and every other event. You can't invent the automobile if you don't first invent the wheel. Religion has served its purpose : for example, if there has been a so called scientific golden age of islam, it is thanks to the fact that the arabic language has been developed mainly for the purpose of transcribing the islamic sacred book with precision, thus inventing a language that was well adapted to the precision needed in scientific research, and also a language well adapted to translate concepts from other cultures. The same could be said about pretty much every other language because religion and commerce/economy are among the top factors for the development of written language. People around the world have built big things and developed many techniques and concepts in the process, all in the name of religion. This is not saying that mankind wouldn't have developed all this without the help of religion, but it is to say that religion was the engine of much of the human progress that has been made around the world, and not only scientific and technological progress, but also social and philosophical progress. It is obvious why religion can have such an influence on human activity, because it is the very thing that is/was supposed to give meaning to everything, us included.

But religion has outlived its purpose. Religion is a product of an era during which the pursuit of knowledge was limited to the subjectivity of the one observing. In antiquity, the observed object had little or no importance and the ideas, feelings and senses of the one observing was taking all the importance and was all-powerful. It was a 'science of the surface', of appearances and intuition, and religion is the product of this primitive form of science. Many centuries after that, came the cartesian era, a scientific era during which all the focus was transferred from the observer to the observed object : the ideas, feelings and general intuition of the observer was almost crushed by the established laws of logics and mathematics. Today, We have entered a new era in science, an era during which the balance between the observer and the observed begins to be restored and the theory of relativity and quantum physics are examples of that.

Religion today is to philosophy and science what the extramission theory is to optics. Extramission is the antique theory that says that rays of light are emitted by the eye, but we have rejected this theory and we have refined our understandings. We have to do the same with religion : refine it. Yes, there are lots of unanswered questions, yes perhaps there are questions to which we will never be able to give a correct answer, but it is time we replace simplistic concepts that are relics of past millennia with complex concepts that will match the complexity of current concepts in other domains and will take both the observer and the observed into account. Things are refined everyday in science, why not in religion ? Why reject dogmas in one domain but accept them in another, and all that in the same mind ? We don't need religion any more in its current antique form.

You say there is no proof that what religion says is false ? My answer is that I have never seen anywhere other than in a man's mind any concept of good and evil, any concept of punishment, any concept of eternal life, any concept of heaven or hell. I have never seen the start of the beginning of a proof, not even a sound and acceptable philosophical argument. The universe is not like it is said in holy books, there is not even a slight resemblance. Morals don't come from god, but morals come from our brains, our empathy, our intuition and our rationality; morals come from the fact that we are a social empathic species with consciousness and the capacity to learn things and express things; we are biological, social and psychological beings. Men don't need god or the devil to commit good or bad acts, men don't need religion to find out what hurts and what feels good. We are not the center of the universe, our planet could disappear at this very moment and the universe wouldn't care. The best word that I could find that describes us the best is emergence. We are something that is emerging and ever changing that we have called life. Religion is a conceptual dogma that was once beneficial but has today outlived its purpose and has become an obstacle to the general progress of our human species.

reply to post by gosseyn

reply to post by gosseyn


I guess it was as inevitable as ignorance or stupidity, huh.

ImaFungi
reply to post by gosseyn

 

I guess it was as inevitable as ignorance or stupidity, huh.

Yes, but we can't slay ignorance in one blow, because there is always more ignorance. How do you know how much ignorant we are right now ? When there was no religion as we know it, we were more ignorant than when there was religion, because the question "why are we here and what's all this" is a question that cannot be ignored by conscious creatures like we are. There needed to be an answer to that question, and religion was the answer of its time.

gosseyn

ImaFungi
reply to post by gosseyn

 

I guess it was as inevitable as ignorance or stupidity, huh.

Yes, but we can't slay ignorance in one blow, because there is always more ignorance. How do you know how much ignorant we are right now ? When there was no religion as we know it, we were more ignorant than when there was religion, because the question "why are we here and what's all this" is a question that cannot be ignored by conscious creatures like we are. There needed to be an answer to that question, and religion was the answer of its time.

Yes I agree, I was using jest hoping to get lots of stars mainly...just kidding...but seriously.

I think ancient forms of religion were glorified law and sense of community. Entertainment and myth and moral and a sense of family and community beyond blood all wrapped in one collective expression of life and nature. Those religions of ancients and tribal sorts I agree were most likely fated to occur on some level regarding animals 'growing up'/growing in intelligence and awareness, and just being confused and scared with infinite possibilities for their mind to think juxtaposed with their simple primal drive to 'do what animals have always done'. So there are many rational reasons (meaning scientifically explorable/anthropological excuses as to why religion is so prevalent in the human species,culture and psyche) id say we see religion throughout history and region of earth.

So knowing that about my views, I would say the ancient religions, much less get on my nerves then modern religious fervor, who are now aware of all the different religions that have existed over time and region, and still fight tooth and nail to claim and believe and convert that their religion is the ultimate truth. Oh and mainly I personally know for a fact the many things about the new testament (which bolsters quite a popular religious following) from my mode of critical and thorough thinking and study of the book and history and mankind in general and in specific, that there are many aspects about it that are taking to be necessary and crucial and important and sacred and holy importances of beliefs regarding the text and history, that I know for certain are incorrect, mistranslations, misinterpretations whether intentional or not, and so yea. Religion was inevitable, but where do we go from here?

If I can put it to analogy it's like keeping the training wheels on the bike well into your adulthood right - ?

Good points IMO.

Well Written. I disagree certain points. A lot of what we consider to be science today in the way of physics and space is just nonsense. A lot of "facts" about the universe around us are really just hypothesis. They still tell us that comets are "dirty snowballs" not giant chunks of space rock. How hot is the sun again? How radioactive is space? Whats the boiling point of water? Scientists cant prove that blackholes exist or dark matter for that matter. They have to exist in order for their models to hold up to scrutiny. There is no scientific proof though....I believe the word is inference. We dont even understand how the planet we can see and touch works completely and scientists have the UNIVERSE figured out? Lol i think not I agree with you on everything but the religion being useless part. Maybe its our way of trying to remember something that we lost touch with long ago but can sense is missing. If all these quantum physicists can make up equations for why there are 11 dimensions and multiverses how does this not allow for a God, or gods? Believing that everything exists within the scope of known science is very narrow minded in my opinion.

reply to post by rustyclutch


Yes, as I said there is always more ignorance. Understanding all that exists can't be anything other than an ongoing process. I mean that only the process is important, and there are only steps with no final step.

We should be more like Leonardo daVinci, for whom there was no difference between science and art, because we compartmentalise too much.

Floydshayvious
If I can put it to analogy it's like keeping the training wheels on the bike well into your adulthood right - ?

Good points IMO.

edit on 13-4-2014 by Floydshayvious because: boop

Yes, that's why people say it's a crutch, but an inevitable and useful one that has become embarrassing and useless.

reply to post by gosseyn


So debating your standpoint and logic and stating the fact that there is no proof black holes or dark matter exist is ignorance. You are funny. You didnt answer any of my questions though. If there are people with PHD's that we call SCIENTISTS that hypothesize all of these crazy things about how this could be a simulation, there could be multidimensions, this could be a multiverse, wormholes, and all the other stuff they talk about.....HOW DOES THIS NOT LEAVE ROOM FOR A GOD, or GODS? I'm not religious really, I just know that people believe things for hundreds of years only to be proven wrong. It has happened before and I'm sure it will happen again. Science evolves over time just like religion does. The sun revolving around the earth was considered science at one point in time. So was the earth being flat. Scientists will try to tell you what exists billions and billions of miles away but cant tell for sure whats 500 miles below their own feet. Carbon Dating is a joke too. Lots of science has been proven to be bunk over the years. Really its just become a religion for those who reject god. You will accept any quack science about the universe as long as it doesnt allow for a god. For people like you god and science cant exist in the same arena. Narrow minded.

No it wasn't. Its not evolution to have a controlled fairy tale, that throws one off a truly spiritual path, that even if Christ Yeshua were real, he would be spiritual and trying to free us from their control grid and religioins....

Its fascism and concocted by evil rulers.

And they're not inevitable. Its people refusing to stand together always to ready too hate on each other instead of work together.

Its Love and Equality while preserving instrinsic freedoms, but more grown up about them, for mother and her needs takes equal precedence to father and his, if you understand what I'm saying.....!!! You can't focus on the freedom of dad without creating wonderful programs and equality for women and children. It has to be balanced.
That is what saves, not believing in a fairy tale.

In fact, if you believe in a purple pumpkin in the sky, and believe in equality, that is what saves.

reply to post by gosseyn

In the evolution of our human race, development of religion was an inevitable process.

Hand me down tales. Probably started around camp fires at night a loooong time ago. People told stories of their experiences and after a while the same old stories didn't appeal anymore. So people embellished them a little. The fish that got away and the bear that I killed get bigger and bigger until… somebody adds that 'unknown' mystery element to the story of magical powers and Oooh, scary spooky invisible monsters and…

look where we are today.

Thats why people no longer believe the real stories when they do come around because we all been reading to much National Enquirer.

And thats exactly the way the spirits would like it to remain. If you want religion attend church. If you want spirits well, they'll let you know.

rustyclutch
reply to post by gosseyn

 

So debating your standpoint and logic and stating the fact that there is no proof black holes or dark matter exist is ignorance. You are funny. You didnt answer any of my questions though. If there are people with PHD's that we call SCIENTISTS that hypothesize all of these crazy things about how this could be a simulation, there could be multidimensions, this could be a multiverse, wormholes, and all the other stuff they talk about.....HOW DOES THIS NOT LEAVE ROOM FOR A GOD, or GODS? I'm not religious really, I just know that people believe things for hundreds of years only to be proven wrong. It has happened before and I'm sure it will happen again. Science evolves over time just like religion does. The sun revolving around the earth was considered science at one point in time. So was the earth being flat. Scientists will try to tell you what exists billions and billions of miles away but cant tell for sure whats 500 miles below their own feet. Carbon Dating is a joke too. Lots of science has been proven to be bunk over the years. Really its just become a religion for those who reject god. You will accept any quack science about the universe as long as it doesnt allow for a god. For people like you god and science cant exist in the same arena. Narrow minded.

edit on 13-4-2014 by rustyclutch because: ..

Where did I say it leaves no room for a god ? Nowhere. I am agnostic myself. There are many different definitions and ideas of what a god could be. I am saying there is no god like described in the big monotheistic religions, no god that told us 'right from wrong', no god that is waiting to punish us if he's not happy with us, no 'personal god', etc.. And again, science is an ongoing process and as long as there are no dogmas, all is good. People have no emotional attachment to the current theories about black holes or dark matter, that's the big difference. If a new theory emerges tomorrow, I'll be happy to replace the old theory.

reply to post by intrptr


I agree. I think religion for the most part is just history before science. At the same time I also believe that there is historical merit to some of the tales that could be considered "national enquirer"....like giants. Coulda still been a flying reptile or 3 5000 years ago....might not have breathed fire but that would be a dragon by their standards. Whats the chances that we are just the descendants of one celled organisms floating on a rock in space thats floating around a burning ball thats floating around a black hole thats floating around who knows what after that, in a universe that spontaneously erupted from an infinitely small point that continues to expand infinitely? Sounds more unbelievable than god to me. But thats just my humble opinion. Im not saying any particular religion is correct I'm just not willing to dismiss the spiritual aspect of all that is.

gosseyn
reply to post by rustyclutch

 

Yes, as I said there is always more ignorance. Understanding all that exists can't be anything other than an ongoing process. I mean that only the process is important, and there are only steps with no final step.

We should be more like Leonardo daVinci, for whom there was no difference between science and art, because we compartmentalise too much.

Seeking truth be it physical understanding or playing around with chakras/chi flow is still experimenting with "what is". The problem I have with science now days is that some scientist (for instance Richard Dawkins) are very close minded and trapped in materialism and cannot seem to allow there to be a symbiosis between spiritual and materialism. From someone who have played around with Reiki being able to affect things remotely becomes a natural thing. What science today would call manipulating entanglement. .

Religion has become a box that makes people not question things. Some scientist are doing the same mistake organised religion made.

reply to post by gosseyn


Then we are in agreement. I never put up any argument for organized religion. I just said theres a lot of bunk science out there and gave examples. If we are in agreement that science and a spiritual side of things exists then apparently there was just miscommunication in what you read from me. I too am open to many theories.

LittleByLittle

gosseyn
reply to post by rustyclutch

 

Yes, as I said there is always more ignorance. Understanding all that exists can't be anything other than an ongoing process. I mean that only the process is important, and there are only steps with no final step.

We should be more like Leonardo daVinci, for whom there was no difference between science and art, because we compartmentalise too much.

Seeking truth be it physical understanding or playing around with chakras/chi flow is still experimenting with "what is". The problem I have with science now days is that some scientist (for instance Richard Dawkins) are very close minded and trapped in materialism and cannot seem to allow there to be a symbiosis between spiritual and materialism. From someone who have played around with Reiki being able to affect things remotely becomes a natural thing. What science today would call manipulating entanglement.

.

Religion has become a box that makes people not question things. Some scientist are doing the same mistake organised religion made.

Yes, but as we all know science is changing and has changed in the past. If today there are scientists who hold onto some dogma, they will have to throw it away if new evidence is found and a new theory emerges. There's no such thing in religion, it is just a dogma. There is nothing comparable to the 'scientific method' in religion.

reply to post by gosseyn


Yes and No. I think there is science that would be beneficial to all that has been supressed. That would be the equal to preaching a false doctrine just like the other religions. In the end I believe science will be just as dictatorial if not more so than religion. God struck at random. Science will be methodical and precise. We already got the terminator basically for crying out loud. LOL.

Unity_99
No it wasn't. Its not evolution to have a controlled fairy tale, that throws one off a truly spiritual path, that even if Christ Yeshua were real, he would be spiritual and trying to free us from their control grid and religioins....

Its fascism and concocted by evil rulers.

And they're not inevitable. Its people refusing to stand together always to ready too hate on each other instead of work together.

Its Love and Equality while preserving instrinsic freedoms, but more grown up about them, for mother and her needs takes equal precedence to father and his, if you understand what I'm saying.....!!! You can't focus on the freedom of dad without creating wonderful programs and equality for women and children. It has to be balanced.
That is what saves, not believing in a fairy tale.

In fact, if you believe in a purple pumpkin in the sky, and believe in equality, that is what saves.

edit on 13-4-2014 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)

To make this simpler, a solid rule can be put into place: If someone demands a tithe, the religion is meant to enslave, if it demands nothing but asks for your ear and tell of personal journey, its meant to guide. (Notice zero eastern based religions rely on the tool of $ to hold precedence over the people)

reply to post by rustyclutch


Science went from being an analytical philosophy to a dominant religion of physical evidence and "accepted" truth. Put science and religious mysticism(kabbalah) together, you get Magic. Add magic to mathematics, you get foundation. Add math to the bible, you gematria, add gematria to consciousness, you get the matrix coding and manifestation. Take away religion and science, you get coding.