Why Is the ATS Community Pro-Nationalist?

I'm singling out ATS, but it seems that people who believe in conspiracy theories in general tend to have a patriotic fervor that I can't understand. I can't understand it because of the tendency that conspiracy theorists tend to have of distrusting the government. 

My idea is that this tends to be the case here in the US, more so. My theory is that it has to do with the political climate of the US. For example, it seems that conspiracy theorists tend to be libertarian. Libertarians tend to be conservative, and conservatives, tend to be patriotic.

However, this seems to not make sense for different reasons. Let's just say that for argument's sake that the Illuminati did worm their way into Freemasonry early on. Undoubtedly, at least a few of the Founding Father's were Masons. So many of the ideals that your country was founded upon were ideals that run contrary to what you have faith in.

So, as a conspiracy theorist that hates the idea of a New World Order (or Illuminati elite), why do you feel patriotic? And I realize that I may run across an idea that I do not like.

reply to post by brazenalderpadrescorpio


Not sure what your getting at......

Are you saying that a citizen whom is against their country losing it's sovereignty to a globalist agenda a Nationalist? Do you just "LABEL" people indiscriminately? I am sure there are many liberals whom value the sovereignty of our country!

Anyhow, what is wrong with a person having an allegiance or a respect for the country in which they live in?

Also, a question for you?

"How is it that those whom love the country in which they live in are looked upon unfavorably by those whom choose to immigrate and try to change it to their way of thinking?".......

I agree, my experience shows that a vast majority of ATS'rs are nationalists, however, there is a difference between an nationalist and a patriot, a nationalist believes that everything he stands for is vastly superior to anythibg else in the world, whereas a patriot firmly believes in his country, but believes the same should apply to all other countries, i.e. A nationalist is all about "me, me, me", and a true patriot believes that everybody should have the same beliefs in their own countries.

Hellhound604
I agree, my experience shows that a vast majority of ATS'rs are nationalists, however, there is a difference between an nationalist and a patriot, a nationalist believes that everything he stands for is vastly superior to anythibg else in the world, whereas a patriot firmly believes in his country, but believes the same should apply to all other countries, i.e. A nationalist is all about "me, me, me", and a true patriot believes that everybody should have the same beliefs in their own countries.

Thanks for explaining something I failed to do!

Because America is a hyper nationalist state?, seems to be from what I can tell quite a lot of highly radicalised pro government supporters.

reply to post by seeker1963


I won't answer your last question since that is not the point of this thread.

But if a country were founded upon occultist ideas that you don't agree with, wouldn't that irk you? I personally don't have any problem with occult ideas, necessarily. It would be the motive of those occult ideas that would bother me.

brazenalderpadrescorpio

My idea is that this tends to be the case here in the US, more so. My theory is that it has to do with the political climate of the US. For example, it seems that conspiracy theorists tend to be libertarian. Libertarians tend to be conservative, and conservatives, tend to be patriotic.

There are some gross generalizations there.

Conservatives and Libertarians are not the same thing exactly although they do tend to be natural allies on a number of issues and right now, those issues they tend to be allies on are the ones at the forefront of the national consciousness more often than not - smaller government and fiscal responsibility.

However, when you move into the arena of social issues, the two disagree in a lot of areas, and then, libertarians wind up keeping company with liberals/leftists. The problem with that is when their alliance leads them to support socially progressive positions that actually grow the government.

It's not every person who can divide their conservative side from their libertarian impulses and most don't try.

brazenalderpadrescorpio
reply to post by seeker1963

 

I won't answer your last question since that is not the point of this thread.

But if a country were founded upon occultist ideas that you don't agree with, wouldn't that irk you? I personally don't have any problem with occult ideas, necessarily. It would be the motive of those occult ideas that would bother me.

So far, your listing of the occult ideas is limited to some of the Founders having been Masons.

Please detail the actual occult ideas.

brazenalderpadrescorpio
reply to post by seeker1963

 

I won't answer your last question since that is not the point of this thread.

But if a country were founded upon occultist ideas that you don't agree with, wouldn't that irk you? I personally don't have any problem with occult ideas, necessarily. It would be the motive of those occult ideas that would bother me.

So is that really the premise of your OP?

Why would anyone defend a country based on Occultist ideas?

Seems to me after refusing to answer my question, that this will be a totally one side topic!!!

OH!!!!

One more question!

"What is your definition of a cult?"!!!!!

reply to post by ketsuko


To be honest with you, I don't think that a lot of people who identify as libertarian have that insight. I think that a lot of people in this country (and world) lack a proper education as to political matters.

reply to post by ketsuko


You have to understand, I don't necessarily believe that the US was founded upon occult ideas. It's just an idea that gets tossed around by conspiracy theorists.

reply to post by seeker1963


That's a crucial part of my questioning, yes.

If you would forgive me, the reason I didn't want to answer your question is because you asked me about immigration. I think that if I answered it, it would derail this thread. Was the point of your question related to this thread, and if so, how? Maybe I missed it.

reply to post by seeker1963


My definition of a cult is a sect that worships the teachings of a man rather than God's.

I am not really nationalistic as much as I am a Anarcho-capitalist. I don't like the idea of some guy in Washington DC trying to rule over me and my family. I like the idea of some guy in Brussels telling me what to do even less. So I guess what I am saying is I am pro-US only because it is less annoying than the idea of a world government.

I think that pretty much sums it up for me.

ETA: I believe that Government is unnecessary and that society should be voluntary and conducted under a free-market economic system. People should be able to live their lives free from all government interference.

What gives any man the right to tell another how he should live his life?

Anarcho-capitalism

reply to post by Metallicus


What exactly is an anarcho-capitalist? I can research it, but I want to hear it in your words.

brazenalderpadrescorpio
My definition of a cult is a sect that worships the teachings of a man rather than God's.

Definition of cult - a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object. Technically ALL religions are cults .... including Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, etc etc

Just FYI.

brazenalderpadrescorpio
reply to post by seeker1963

 

That's a crucial part of my questioning, yes.

If you would forgive me, the reason I didn't want to answer your question is because you asked me about immigration. I think that if I answered it, it would derail this thread. Was the point of your question related to this thread, and if so, how? Maybe I missed it.

Here is why I brought up immigration in relevance to the question of your OP.

Bare with me.....

Nationalism, as you brought up in your OP and I must add was answered very well by another member of ATS whom I replied too, can become in a sense as fanatical as let's say religion, OR political partisanship????

Anyhow, what I have not only noticed in my country, (United States) but also my friends across the pond complaining about is that it appears the rights of citizens are being overruled by those whom are immigrating into their country and demanding that laws be changed to favor their beliefs!

In that case, what is wrong with Nationalism when people whom are being "ALLOWED" to enter, blatantly disrespect the citizens whom already live there and try to change the laws to fit their needs? In that case I would say "Nationalism" is only natural and not a bad thing.

Now for instance in the opposite direction where I DO view Nationalism as fanatical, was after 9/11!!

What happened? People were pissed, people were accepting EVERY official story that was being pumped out at them by the MSM and by GOD we had to go and bomb the hell out of IRAQ because they had weapons of mass destruction! WAVE THE FLAG AND BOMB THE HELL OUT OF EM!

In that case I agree! Nationalism is a bad thing!

Other than that, being proud of whom you are and where you are from, should NEVER be a bad thing!

I am not trying to derail your thread! I was just looking for some clarification.

I hoped I explained myself a little better.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Interesting. Thanks.

reply to post by seeker1963


Which nationality do you believe is trying to change the laws of this country, and how are they trying to change them?

brazenalderpadrescorpio
reply to post by seeker1963

 

Which nationality do you believe is trying to change the laws of this country, and how are they trying to change them?

By your question, and my responses to your thread I am guessing you are a US citizen???

To answer your question, have you been paying attention to how our immigration laws are not being enforced by the current administration?

Sorry to be off topic!!! But I was just answering your question!