ATS Think Tank: Predicting Outcomes at the Bundy Ranch! Is A 2nd Civil War Immiment?

No.

Overrating the what the average person in the US will do. Given the the past 10 years and no change for the better for the people, expect no change.

The US is still running around parts of the mideast for a 'war on terror' after 13 years and people still support it. One guy having trouble? Millions here have trouble worst then this and nothing is done.

reply to post by truthofnitrous

50-50 Chance if one of the snipers are ordered to fire on one of their own and blame it on the militia and protestors.

If things go bad, the Fed are the ones picking up the bodies and answering the questions.

reply to post by DietJoke


It is usually the historians who look back, and determine when a conflict "started." It is also a matter of perspective. To the Japanese, WW2 and their animosity toward us began long before they took the step to bomb Pearl Harbor, but to us, that was the definitive day of our involvement.

Thanks to the Fed's habit of thinking that everyone will always back down and give in to their "demands" (as they continue to forget who the hell it is they work for), they have now painted themselves into the corner, of either being weak, or of over-reaching. Neither is good for them.

However, they cannot appear to be weak, as that terrifies them to even think about, so they will take option B, which will be to over-reach. They're used to living with that image, and it doesn't bother them that never have so many of us hated so few of them for so many justifiable reasons.

The one thing they can't live with is the appearance of weakness. They never lose these battles with us insects. They always win. To not win is to show weakness to the insects, and then the insects begin to understand that together, they are bigger than any government agency/branch, and this terrifies our g-men overlords to no end.

I suppose there is the possibility of a "draw" for now where each sides regroups, or there is some kind of resolution, but if that doesn't happen, then the Feds will use force because showing weakness to the citizens that pay their salaries is something they refuse to even contemplate. It's not an option.

Whether or not this is the "definitive" action that sparks a civil war will be left up to the historians, imo, should a civil war happen anytime soon. There are so many things that could be pinpointed as a spark. Maybe Waco could be pinpointed, whereas many saw what happened, and saw that they were getting ready to "exemplify" Bundy to the masses, and decided no, not this time, so Waco could be pinpointed by some as the start. Just an example, but pinpointing the exact start of a conflict isn't always easily agreed on AFTER the fact, much less before it.

Could this be the straw that broke the camel's back? Hell yes it could be, especially if breaking the camel's back is what the Fed wants to do, so that they can claim an excuse to centralize power even more, and take away more rights.

No it won't heat up like that. If violence erupts it will be via provokateurs as justification to subdue them quickly. That said, civil war won't happen here until people can no longer enjoy the luxuries that currently do. We seem still a ways off from that. People are far more concerned with their iPads more than their liberties.

Again I thank my fellow members for their comments on this topic!

Please continue to comment and give your opinions on the matter!

I find the perception that foreign and or national provocateurs would deliberately incite a 2nd Civil War at the Bundy Ranch to be fascinating!

reply to post by Rosinitiate

People are far more concerned with their iPads more than their liberties.

That needs to be carved into a building or statue some where for future generations. Go big, a mountain.

DietJoke


I find the perception that foreign and or national provocateurs would deliberately incite a 2nd Civil War at the Bundy Ranch to be fascinating!

Why would a Foreign provocateur be required when the US has a Nazi government in charge....No need for others to get involved when 1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Washington, DC 20500, United States are doing a good job in pissing off everyone.

If history is any guide the feds will kill a bunch of people. Maybe burn down any buildings on the property. Arrest whoever is left alive. Maybe lock one up but the others will eventually be released. A couple of years will pass and the feds will cut a few settlement checks and a good 90% of America will view the feds as heroes even if the theories of a Chinese land grab or fracking operation and a turtle holocaust happen to be true because America love their hyper-violence government of force.

Maybe in this new age of information things will be different but I doubt it. Randy Weaver is a lunatic whose wife and son deserved to be shot and all those children who roasted in the basement at Waco were evil because government told me so.

Oh, cant forget the Browns. It's was so important for the fed to collect $200,000 in back taxes they had to spend $8 million to do it. Had nothing to do with showing us peons whose boss through cold brutality. Nope. It was all about the revenue. Surely at a net loss of 7.8 million anyone can see that.

I think this stand off will boil for a few days, maximum.

The local businesses will love the influx of supporters spending dollars in the community and county.

But, where are these 1000's of militia supporters going to take a poop?

Have tractor-trailers delivered Johnny Blue's? Or are they digging holes on Bundy's 160 acre ranch?

Ultimately, I predict the logistics of providing water, food, trash and sanitary waste facilities for the alleged 1000's of supporters will be the unwinding mechanism for this stand-off.

Just being practical.

reply to post by DietJoke

I find the perception that foreign and or national provocateurs would deliberately incite a 2nd Civil War at the Bundy Ranch to be fascinating!

Multinational... An entity that moves around the globe at the speed of light based on a legal structure in the best of both worlds. As for more national tensions here, I am noticing a slight increase in anti US sentiment (10% maybe ish) flow through these forum more recently since Crimea. The US does need some reeducation, this 9/11 stuff really has some international issues.

Is there even anyone really there yet? Is this just a False Flag created to keep us occupied and looking in the wrong direction? How many people with weapons even came?

My prediction.

Nothing will happen. No bullets will be fired. There will be a lot of big talk on the Internet and strong words of defiance.

Then a deal will be reached. And the rancher will lose.

The end.

I am appalled that our government has sent a full scale military strike force because why? some farmer refused to pay his grazing fees.

That is what it boils down to: the farmer could have continued to graze his cattle there by paying a grazing fee. Regardless of the right or wrong of the BLM and farmer over this dispute over fees. It does not warrant a full scale military attack

This may end up being Obama's Ruby Ridge only worse because the farmer and family have hurt no one by not paying the fee.

What will happen to the poor people who can't afford the Obamacare fee? oh excuse me - mandatory tax as the supreme court ruled.


What will happen if they end up killing the farmer and family in a full scale military attack? Probably nothing because ABC,NBC,CBS, CNN all have spouses or siblings of the CEO's who work directly for Obama -
but the few real journalists who will be screaming at the top of their lungs will not be heard by the mindless slaves of Obama.

DietJoke
Is A 2nd Civil War Immiment

No. This isn't even on most people's radar. Sad but true.

reply to post by DietJoke


My question for everyone on ATS is, if this Bundy ranch situation turned "worst case scenario" meaning, a gun fight, followed by numerous deaths happening bringing the american public into an uproar where militias begin to take form against the US Govt. Do you believe that a civil war would be similar to any type of war we've ever seen today?

I'm honestly having a hard time articulating this thought here in this post, but the question I'm trying to get across is, with approval ratings being at an all-time low within our Govt. do you think they would ever relinquish their powers back to the people, avoiding battles with us?

I really don't see how a "civil war" could ever happen in this country. Unless the Govt. paints the militias as enemies of the state and the masses turn on them fast... Would we see some country, ie, Russia or China or _______ whomever helping the rebel forces here?

I also feel like the majority of US soldiers wouldn't turn on its own people... well, at least I hope that's what would happen and I'd hope that the few at the top would soon be outnumbered...

I honestly don't know what to make of this situation. It's obvious that we are at our breaking point as a society, but the unknown to how this will all play out leaves a very uneasy feeling in my stomach cause who knows, maybe the sick psychos who run this country may decide it's time to false flag our country again to put the sheeple citizens back in their place, and that place is fearful, scared, and dependent on the US Govt. to make all things right...

I feel like change can happen. I do believe that good can overcome bad. I just don't know how change and overcoming these psychotic, agenda-driven politicians will happen...

Sorry for rambling...

reply to post by DietJoke


This will most likely end like Waco, the government is there to prove a point and see how far the people will go, they have already killed most of his cattle running them in the heat and the only thing left is to eliminate Bundy and his supporters.

You don't bring snipers and rangers to an event and then back down and look the fool, Harry Reid would not allow it.

Hope I'm wrong.

The Feds can't show anything but "seizing control" because that's how they train them now. The longer they're defied, the likelier they'll respond with intentionally lethal force. They're already preventing people from recording, they're getting rid of witnesses and shortly the Bundy's will be rendered incommunicado, then when no one can see what happened, there will be a story to the effect that he came right at them, and in defending themselves, the house and family burned leaving no witnesses but smug faced LEOs giving each other high fives. Bravo Zulu, shiny heroes.

The end.

It's already turned out wrong.

Harry Reid and his cronies failed to secure the property for their venture. Too many eyes are on it now. People have lost millions in the investments.

The media is finally paying attention to this.

A) The feds will either back down and this will be a non-event

or

B) The feds will kill everyone involved.

I'm hoping on A but betting on B because people can't be allowed to win against the government.

reply to post by jhn7537


It will end just like Waco.

No doubt in my mind.

The only illegal thing the guy did was not pay grazing fees for his cattle and letting them graze on what he felt was his families grazing area by heritage. Right or wrong, this does not warrant killing him for.

Somehow the siblings and spouses of the mainstream media CEO's who work directly for Obama will manage to convince the mainstream media to either lie, cover up, or ignore if a blood bath happens. Which I am predicting it will.

The militia coming in will help the mainstream media cause because in most of the TV drama's they have made the bad guys and terrorists militia members now. Pay attention, it is a regular theme on most crime shows now, the american who distrusts government or believes in the constitution is the terrorist. They are preparing the public to accept the death of the militia members over turtles, fees and solar panels as justified.

This is designed to scare people into being the mindless slaves of the government that Obama and past presidents have worked so hard for us to be.

Watch and pay attention. When the media starts featuring people who won't pay for health insurance as terrorists and the bad guys on TV shows - it will be time to round them up (for their own safety of course) and either intern them or going the cheaper route, do what will then be called the Bundy Ranch and slaughter them for not paying the fees, oops, taxes, to show us who is boss and to put us in our place.

Thanks to everybody for their replies!

I am getting the general feeling from my fellow ATS members, that this event has a short window of opportunity to become overblown or it will evolve into a stalemate or devolve into an impossible logistical nightmare.

I am also getting the general feeling that if things do boil over, that my fellow ATS members feel the Feds will win the battle!

Finally I am getting the general feeling from my fellow ATS members that if there is a battle and the Feds do win, that the rest of the USA will do nothing about that and the Bundy Ranch Massacre will simply pass into American History as a footnote akin to Waco and Ruby Ridge etc!

Does anybody else concur with those feelings so far?