Value Of Tarot Without Readings?

Ok, so here is my question. As I understand it, the tarot is supposed to be a sort of pictorial map of the elemental forces underlying the universe and our experience of it. Now, the general, very common way tarot is seen and used is as a divinatory device. Ask it questions so that it may guide you or give you insight into your situation, what is to come, how to approach it, etc. This is based on shuffling the deck, cutting it, dealing it into a spread. Now, clearly this is not something everyone is going to accept. That when you shuffle the deck and deal them, it comes out in the perfect way to give you advice for your question. IF this were true, that the cards really are just dealt randomly, would the Tarot have no value?

First of all, just upon saying it it seems that that could not be a position someone who puts stock in the tarot spiritually could take. If there still remains value in the tarot beyond believing that the cards are being dealt out in a meaningful and correct way, what is it? I ask because I have a definite interest in the tarot, but I have a hard time getting into trying to do readings, partially because I have a hard time being sold on the idea that the cards will be dealt out right. But I have studied up, and what I have read of the theory of the tarot, as I briefly described in the beginning of the thread, is highly intriguing. Yet if the tarot really has such a deep spiritual and philosophic meaning, surely it must be of value without putting faith in the dealing of shuffled cards. So I ask out of genuine curiosity, what is that value?

Simply meditating on the cards meaning? I have done a good deal of studying, considering, and meditating upon the cards, and this has at times been illuminating, but not of huge dramatic value I wouldn't say, at least in my experience thus far. What else can you do? As you study and meditate upon the cards, actively try to choose cards to apply to your life and situations, and try to learn to see the relationships between the cards to see different ways things could go? The process being learning to more accurately apply the cards to your life and see their relationships to put them to use in your advantage. I just never see anyone actually go into any detail whatsoever on alternate uses of the tarot beyond readings. Any ideas? Thoughts?

reply to post by TheJourney


A lot of times reading books that explain the cards can help you delve deeper into the possible meaning. I'm not sure if you've tried that.

reply to post by TheJourney


Since you have a Thoth deck, check out the lecture by Lon Milo I posted on the other recent Tarot thread. If you haven't already..
Best one I have been able to find.

There's no Thoth deck.

reply to post by TheJourney


There is additional value in the Tarot cards besides for readings, Aleister Crowley recommends using them for meditation in his "Book of Thoth" (which I recommend buying. By the way, if someone recommends reading a book, I found it is life-changing to follow through).

That book will tell you most everything you need to know. There is a LOT more represented by each card than you could ever imagine, sometimes those meanings are placed in symbols on the cards.

The Tarot is a way of looking at the world to help free yourself from delusions, or to help make choices when free of delusions. Each card holds wisdom that could be applied to any situation.

The Tree of Life

This rare website is nearly the only corner of the Internet (possibly the only place on the internet) that describes the different paths on the Tree of Life, which all Tarot cards fit on.



Here, for example, are the planets and their Tree of Life locations. On each of those circular locations, sit the numbers in sets of four.

The Knights, Queens, Princes and Princesses are on certain circles as well. The Trump cards represent paths. While the number cards represent things from you or others, royalty represent individuals and Trump cards represent acts of fate outside of anyone's control.

Of course, each planet has meaning, and each path has meaning - this kind of symbolism is how deep art tends to run. I would recommend buying "The Book of Thoth"

brazenalderpadrescorpio
There's no Thoth deck.

There is a Thoth deck that was designed by Crowley himself and painted by one of his friends, Lady Frieda Harris. I just manhandled mine so it's real.

Good point though - this one is a good topic to purchase a book on. Crowley writes consistent and worthwhile passages it wouldn't be possible to recount it in the forum.

I don't know why I wasn't more specific about my background study and the like in the OP. Yes, I have a thoth deck. I have also read through the book of thoth online, and revisit it sometimes. I have also studied liber 777, and other things related to it. The system some of you are describing, with the tree of life and the paths, etc, form part of my understanding of the tarot. I find myself so intrigued as they describe the meaning and theory of the cards, and it makes so much sense, but then practically speaking I find myself unsure of what to actually do with it, beyond reading the same things over and over again.

reply to post by darkbake


What I meant is that someone mentioned that he had a Thoth deck. I wasn't aware that he had a Thoth deck, since he hadn't mentioned it in his OP.

reply to post by TheJourney


I see what you mean, I think that some of the understanding is found in other mind-states. Aside from the obvious methods, I used to naturally be in an altered mind-state. The two different ones that I could classify are:

1) A deconstructionalist mind-state, free of cultural delusions and bias - aware of real cause-and-effect

2) An image-based mind-state. For example, being able to see a motor in your head and manipulate all the pieces. Being able to manifest an idea in your head and then the ideas to get there.

At higher levels, being able to accept more and more input and make predictions based on societal and physical workings. The cards represent the gears, the mechanics, of that machine.

If you are operating at this level in the moment, then you are going to be able to place the cards in front of you as a filter over your "vision" in order to see different aspects involving social and mystical interactions, for the most part

It can help determine cause-and-effect for decision making when an adviser is not present, for example. Basically, I guess that its uses can be Magick related.

-----

Well, I can attempt to provide a scenario. Have you ever tried writing a book or a short story with multiple characters? What happens if you imagine a situation they are in and are unsure how they are going to interact? And then you draw a card from the Tarot deck and use that as your theme?

That is the card interacting with your imagination - now what if your waking life was similar, and you could imagine things and then figure out how to get them? It would be similar to a dream. In this state, you could use the Tarot cards in the same way as when writing the story I mentioned.

It is entirely possible to use your imagination to manifest so often during your life that your life does become very mystical and less physical. Sometimes if this gets out-of-hand, the cards might even be needed to help ground you and keep you from going insane.

-----

You can practice the Tarot use by writing the story as I mentioned - if you want to learn real-life Magick, then do this. Set a goal for yourself tomorrow by visualizing it. It could be as simple as getting a specific drink from the grocery store. Write the goal down on a piece of paper. Then tomorrow, do it. You have successfully manifested.

Believe it or not, this can be used to manifest whatever the hell you want. However, and this is a big however, it does not work well with social interactions. And that is where the Tarot comes in, see? It is a guide to help work through those social interactions in a healthy manner.

You want to get ice creme? Go ahead. You want to get married and have a fulfilling marriage? Get ready to do a ton of readings. If you are going to get married without wanting to, just because it happens, no need to do readings.

brazenalderpadrescorpio
reply to post by darkbake

 

What I meant is that someone mentioned that he had a Thoth deck. I wasn't aware that he had a Thoth deck, since he hadn't mentioned it in his OP.

Oh yes, I see what you are saying.

reply to post by brazenalderpadrescorpio

Anyways, I have the thoth tarot deck and have done some studying of it using liber 777 and the book of thoth. So, OP. You study a card every day? Do you choose randomly or go through systematically? And you say you don't do readings for others, do you do them for yourself? -thejourney

I was referring to another tarot thread op posted in.
Link

First, I'd like to say that I agree completely with what a previous poster, Darkbake, discussed regarding mind states when using tarot. Well, to some, it's all about state of mind.

I've been doing tarot for 15 years, and have long since come to a point where I realized that the card meaning doesn't depend on the spread. A lot of times, I don't need any particular insight or guidance, but I do need that 'tarot state of mind'. So I'll light some candles, spread my cloth, and simply shuffle my cards. Sort of zone out, (meditate?) if you will. And then sometimes I'll just flip the top card. And most of the time, that card will be a reflection of my current situation, be it my overall mental state, or my wants, desires, or problems. And then I'll start shuffling again, and the meaning of that card works its way into my thoughts, and "just feels right". (I'm sure that doesn't make much sense, sorry). I guess you might call it meditation, although when I set out to do it, I don't say "Oh let me meditate on my cards". I also never do readings for other people (stopped that years and years ago). So my cards have almost become an extension of myself.

I like the cross spread IF you are going to do this for someone else (I hate doing them for other people). The tarot become highly personalized with use, and I personally feel that constantly exposing them to other people negatively impacts your own personal connection with them.Some people are great with that spread, and their connection to the cards is strong, it just doesn't work that great for me, I only use it if I need some serious guidance. Otherwise, I use a simple 3 card spread.

Something I wish someone had told me when I first started is that the spreads and book meanings are a nice (and important) foundation, but you have to make your own connection with the cards and learn what they mean to you. Once you reach that point, their value is amazing. I've dabbled in many different things throughout the years, and the tarot is one of the few that I plan to pass down to my daughter. She'll have my deck when I pass on.

Also, I'd like to point out that in my opinion, it doesn't matter which deck you have. The symbolism is the same regardless, some are prettier than others, some are more complex, or brighter, but I really hate when people start with their whole (my tarot is better than your tarot, lol).

My point with that is, if you have been truly trying and trying to make a connection with your cards and haven't, try another deck.

(Sorry in advance for typos, I haven't finished my first coffee and don't feel like proofreading!)

I have "conversations" with passed friends via my cards. Many such conversations. There are some spreads out there specifically structured for asking questions of deceased loved ones, but over the last few years, I've sort of developed a more intuitive arrangement of my own hybrid spreads that vary from friend to friend and type of conversation we're engaged in. I simply shuffle and lay out as I'm chatting, and generally the responses are well within the "personality" of the individual that I'm connecting with. The thing about getting older is that the percentage of friends you have that have already gone ahead continues to increase. Most of my friends are dead already, and being the kinds of people they are, they're not restricted to "going to a better place" or whatever the marketing brochures have been selling folks for the last number of centuries. They stick around if they feel like it, and they drop by. My cards seem to be a really effective means for them to be "heard" by me, since I'm not psychic. Their minds chat with my subconscious mind and the cards let my conscious mind know what they're saying. For the most part, this is what I use my cards for now days.

reply to post by DenyFlatulence


I wish I could've seen the OP's threads as they came up, as they look interesting.

reply to post by TheJourney


Try to describe your state of mind as you reflect on the meaning of the cards. Maybe that can give some insight as to what the problem could be.

Edit: If you see the symbolism in the cards as important universal archetypes, then that can help you in your progress in understanding the cards.

reply to post by TheJourney


I think if you are not getting anything out of your tarot any more, then it is time to put them down and find another self help tool.

I meditated on the Tarot for a while. Using Rider/Waite, starting with 0 and going through them all, a week per card, and my tarot readings became much more accurate, and I started to understand the path of the mystic, however, at some point, you have to put them down and move on, when you find they no longer are teaching you anything of value.

But that is just my opinion.

I would also say that doing readings helps build up your confidence in knowing the meaning of the cards. If you find it hard to do readings for other people, start by doing readings for yourself. This can help by not making you feel so self-conscious about the mistakes you think you're making.

I think of the tarot, the Thoth deck especially, as a sort of esoteric safekeeping. I still find new meaning in studying the trumps, learning about other things brings new meaning to them sometimes, like recently I saw The Chariot with new eyes after reading another thread. It's built on all sorts of mythological tales and archetypes. I think the trumps are also a Hero's Journey thing that begins with The Fool, as any fruitful adventure must.

As darkbake said, the tarot can be used for writing. I started a writing project a couple years ago by laying cards out and letting them guide the plot, which turned out surprisingly well. I'm still working it out in my head and only ever got 10 pages on paper, but I came up with ideas I never would have thought of otherwise.

I had my Thoth deck for a year or two before I ever did readings with it. A "mentor" in a chat like 12 years ago convinced me to practice reading in his room, most people reacted positively, so I continued. I'm still not really sure I believe I know how/why they work. I do often say almost exactly what you (OP) said couldn't be the position of anyone who puts stock in tarot spiritually. I don't really have a spiritual belief in it. I would rather think it's mostly random, but that people are somehow inclined to find what they need in it if they want to.

Maybe the tarot isn't "magical", but people have the ability to attract what they need for progress and the randomness of the tarot along with the way it's built on mythology/philosophy/psychology enables synchronicity...? Just a thought I'm having while pondering.

Also, I have played a little game with my cards now and then while reading ATS threads... I like to call it "Tarot, what's up with this poster?" It can be pretty entertaining.

darkbake, I like the way you describe of seeing your life in terms of the tarot cards, and inserting them into the story of your life. And also using that same principle in writing stories, and how they are then like a common ground between 'reality' and 'imagination.' If I'm understanding you correctly.

mojave, what you talk about as just turning the cards out to be just some sort of advice on or reflection of my current situation, or mind-state. You say you do a simple 3 card spread. What meaning do each of the cards have in the spread? Do you give them different meanings?

noreaster, that is a very interesting use for the tarot cards!

emachine, again, I think using the tarot cards to drive a plot in a story you write is a very interesting idea. It really could allow the creative juices to get flowing and also help you to really learn the meaning of the cards, and increase their personal meaning. Also the 'Tarot, what's up with this poster?' sounds like a really interesting use of them as well! These are interesting ideas, show the open-ended use they can provide.

You could just use Ifate.com and do many readings from different angles. It would still be the same as having them in your hands anyways.

Right side/left side Brain see things different so the more art given on any picture will help. Most cards are plain simple, while using A.C. deck has all the info needed on the card. Tunning in is what counts.

Some just read the cards tell you a story and collect their $20. Never say anything and most would just go by what they think the card is saying. Now others go about this differently, some read your Aura, Feel you and actually see whats around you!

Now on to the odds, most would have say 2-3 trump's in their reading. Trumps explain the Highter power at work; and yet their are some! Ever hear of vamp's? Soul suckers, actually people in your live that Drain You. Yet somehow the cards will explain no matter how you do the shuffle

Try using the Fool Trump as you. That sets the stage for the cards. Pick any Trump if you like it just remember what that card stands for! Please give me some advice and leave it at that. Most want to know about money, love or if they should change this or that. Waste of time if you ask me!

The "Please" is like asking what I need to know, do, now. We have eyes yet we see nothing. It brings out the nothing hidden for you to see. Basicly about yourself and whats in your head!

Still though, it has been around since ever and will stay past our lifetime's.

Peace