Papyrus mentions Jesus wife authentic?

Whenever one talks to a true Christian with queries, a true Christian responds with facts based upon scripture that has proved unchanged since the time of Christ. Whenever one asks these new age people they always can't tell you why or where and it's only for the initiated. Then they turn around and make outlandish claims and call Christians foolish and brainwashed. There is a beautiful, almost poetic irony that I see. Can you see it as well? These are the strokes of The Master. His intellect is perfection. All one has to do is look. It is on display all around you. All being paid according to their works.

reply to post by pleasethink


Had you been paying attention, you'd have read in the 1st or 2nd reply I stated it was in several languages.
Obviously I'd know a bit of 2 or 3 but we had use of a template as well as Professors who could interpret, Ancient Sumerian, latin, Greek, Egyptian, etc, not that much hebrew.

Blessings Believe what you want or not, free will and all.....

I think you are only trying to keep this thread going at this point & another that just began of the same topic already has many pages.............

Does the Bible say somewhere that Jesus was definitively NOT married?

If not, then why render any significance to this? What if papyrus was found saying that Jesus liked cute puppies? Would everything be thrown into question because nobody else mentioned puppies before?

Also, why place any credence to the content of the text without context? Could it not be a piece of satire? A play? A snippet of a joke? Who knows?

reply to post by Sparta


Of course he had a wife. I and many others believe that a Jewish man not having a wife in his thirties back then was unheard of. Boys were maried away at an early age, it was probably very common in the Jewish culture back then.

-MM

reply to post by pleasethink

Whenever one talks to a true Christian with queries, a true Christian responds with facts based upon scripture that has proved unchanged since the time of Christ. Whenever one asks these new age people they always can't tell you why or where and it's only for the initiated. Then they turn around and make outlandish claims and call Christians foolish and brainwashed. There is a beautiful, almost poetic irony that I see. Can you see it as well? These are the strokes of The Master. His intellect is perfection. All one has to do is look. It is on display all around you. All being paid according to their works.

Really? the scripture has remained unchanged since the time of Christ? Care to rephrase that?
Not just brainwashed but obviously staid.
I'm not new age anything.
I'm not an initiate of anything.
Just requested by the Roman Catholic Church to not disclose certain and or full facts yet.....so a vow taken when I was still trying to believe.....I intend on keeping it.


Again, blessings

MerkabaMeditation
reply to post by Sparta

 

Of course he had a wife. I and many others believe that a Jewish man not having a wife in his thirties back then was unheard of. Boys were maried away at an early age, it was probably very common in the Jewish culture back then.

-MM

edit on 12-4-2014 by MerkabaMeditation because: (no reason given)

Well said.

I do not see why his being married should offend anyone. It does not change the philosophy that he taught which was pretty darned good.

The only thing it would change is the doctrines and dogma taught by the churches, and specifically, the Church of Rome.

Again, I have read the negative comments the OP is alluding to, but they were written down in the Babylonian Talmud, not in the bible. It could be that some scribe in the Jewish priesthood attempted to insert those comments into an early copy of the New Testament, that wouldn't surprise me, but doing so would have been an attempt to change (through dishonesty) one of the four gospels written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

It's authentic to the 7th century Egypt.
It's not a historical document.
It's most likely 'historical fiction'.

reply to post by Char-Lee


You're glibly leaving out the fact that in furnishing wine for this wedding party in Cana, which I also believe was for a relation of Mary's or I should say "Miriam's" family, who didn't want her familial hosts to be embarrassed by running out of wine too soon, that Yeshua/Jesus performed an AMAZING and MARVELOUS miracle by transforming those large vats of water INTO wine, which was exceptionally better than the first wines served to the guests. He was the Lord of all Creation, so this was next to nothing for Him to perform.

reply to post by pleasethink


That was wonderfully put. Atheists want us to honor their beliefs to NOT believe in a Creator, but as true believers, we are not given the same honor. I find that rather disconcerting, to a degree. It's equivalent, in my humble opinion, to denying that a person who is a TERRORIST who has just shot hundreds of rounds of ammunition at Fort Hood... injuring many of our brave American soldiers all over again... is "not" to be called a Terrorist.

Our world is upside down. Right is wrong, the moral compass of so many are all askew. To do evil rather than to show human kindness has become the norm. And it is a shame.

reply to post by elitelogic


First of all, Jesus was NEVER married. Being God in the flesh, who came to earth to save all of mankind, was his ONLY mission. The scriptures declare that he was not given earthly beauty, so that others would not desire Him and find him sexually attractive and be drawn to Him in that way. He knew what His short time on earth was all about, and only three years of His ministering to the people left Him no time to marry. Which was simply not in God's plan.

The stipulation made that he had to marry by 30 is not accurate. He was honorarily called Rabbi because of His grasp of the scriptures and His authority and vast knowledge pertaining to the scriptures. If I believe that he was the King of Glory who being God in the flesh, had ALL knowledge of what the words laid down in the Torah actually meant, and that He could clearly define the laws and the prophets for the people and open them up in a brand new way so that their knowledge might increase, and that they might come to believe that He was who He said He was, then He was the fulfillment of the Promise of the Messiah. Too bad that the religious rulers of that day could not discern the truth and acknowledge Him. But they were filled with pettiness and envy. And they did not want to be thrown from power. Not much as changed in our own modern world.

MOST of the men in the Bible did not marry until they reached FORTY. Look it up. By forty, they were more mature and ready to handle a wife. I'm not saying that ALL of the men in the bible waited so long, but the patriarchs all seemed to wait until that "magical" age for whatever reason.

reply to post by pleasethink


Here we go again, every Easter season, we get this Gnostic nonsense shoved down our throats, that Jesus was secretly married. This was purposely done in Egypt to corrupt the scriptures and to cast doubt on the validity of the Messiah. So much is written of Yeshua/Jesus, that it would have mentioned that he had a wife, but that is NOT in the scriptures, because it never happened.

I believe this a Satanic effort by the Wicked One, Lucifer, to muddy the waters and cast doubts and aspersions on the scriptures. It's VERY clear to me.

And just so you know, I HAVE read the gnostic so-called scriptures, and they are farcical and go against the canon and validity of the Bible with their PURPOSEFUL unbelief.

If they are atheists, why would they take the time to try to discredit Him with such an obvious lie? You tell me whose servant they were? God's or Satan's?

And that people gullibly swallow such nonsense and go on this yearly rampage, shows that there is MOST DEFINITELY a concerted effort to deny His Holiness by this trite and ridiculous assertion.

maceov
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

You're glibly leaving out the fact that in furnishing wine for this wedding party in Cana, which I also believe was for a relation of Mary's or I should say "Miriam's" family, who didn't want her familial hosts to be embarrassed by running out of wine too soon, that Yeshua/Jesus performed an AMAZING and MARVELOUS miracle by transforming those large vats of water INTO wine, which was exceptionally better than the first wines served to the guests. He was the Lord of all Creation, so this was next to nothing for Him to perform.

Glibly leaving out?

What does that have to do with the subject?

reply to post by maceov


You said:

I believe this a Satanic effort by the Wicked One, Lucifer, to muddy the waters and cast doubts and aspersions on the scriptures. It's VERY clear to me.

For somebody who supposedly accepts "Love thy neighbor as thyself" and "Judge not least ye be judged" as valid, it seems to me that defining anybody who disagrees with you as part of a "Satanic plot" has somehow really missed the boat.

If Jesus WANTED to marry, who are you to say he couldn't? Would the fact that he may have actually loved a woman make his message any less important?

I agree that some Gnostic texts appear very questionable, but some of them seem to be quite in keeping with the main message found in the gospels that made it into the bible.

Reading the Gnostic texts and considering them with careful thought does not, in my view, make anyone less a Christian.

As far as the Bible being unchanged, please read up on the books of the Bible found in the Dead Sea Scrolls and then compare to recent copies and note the differences and lack thereof. As I have stated before, it was punishable by death to add onto or take away from the Word.

And the oldest Bible was written in Latin?!? And not much Hebrew? For an ancient, oldest religious text of the Hebrew people, to omit Hebrew as a language should have raised doubts in your mind of it's authenticity. Just saying. Sounds kind of far fetched. And man for the dirty(?) Roman Catholic world devourers to allow a person such as yourself to access what must have been their secret book used in their plot to conquer the world must mean you are pretty important. I am impressed. To raise a whole church over a drunkard gambler who couldn't tend the sheep because of his previous french commitments. What a believable tale. So much more than say, the Son of G-d comes down to earth to redeem His creation so that they might not die but be restored to their proper place as children of the Most High. I don't know about you, I like that one better. It has an air of truth, as the man I know and love was not of the character to do such trifling things, as is evidenced by the psychological response of His followers to His resurrection. Same guy who denied Him thrice decided to dedicate only the rest of his life(

Cont. to teaching His word just because He told Him to and also had himself crucified upside down because of his dedication and firm belief that He was the Son of G-d. This is historically documented. From a psychological standpoint, this is a drastic turnaround that indicates something between the denial and the crucifixion. Maybe, say, seeing Him resurrected? That would probably confirm it to me too.

Also, Yeshua never married and women weren't treated like cattle. First, there is no reason whatsoever to lie or hide this information. No one would tell the Son of G-d He couldn't marry. That is just silly. It wouldn't add or subtract from His message. Therefore, there is literally no logical explanation as to why they would hide this information. From your own account of jewish laws, it would have helped His cause. Then He would have been a rabbi, right? Do you see your own logic farts? Rabbi means teacher, educated scholars. Get a clue.

Women are also highly regarded in scripture and it is required to treat your wife with love and honor and respect. Not just in the New Testament, but in the Old. There is a whole portion of Psalms where presumably Solomon sings beautiful serenades to his beloved. And he was quite possibly the wisest man who ever lived and is considered as such by numerous different cultures. Spoiler alert: his beloved wasn't the cow in his pasture. It seems almost like maybe you have a undesirable view of women as it doesn't exist in Jewish or Christian culture. Do you treat women like cattle? What I was taught is to love and appreciate a good woman, as she is worth her weight in diamonds. Avoid the bad ones like death itself. This is actually what the Bible teaches. Read proverbs. Don't just spread disinformation cause you hate. Read. Think. Than come back from an informed position.

reply to post by maceov

The stipulation made that he had to marry by 30 is not accurate. He was honorarily called Rabbi because of His grasp of the scriptures and His authority and vast knowledge pertaining to the scriptures.

yes you are right the age was younger it seems. Why would people not be mentioning that he was not taking a wife as he should.

i. Among the Jews of that day, marriage was a sacred duty. If a man was unmarried after the age of 20 - except to concentrate on the study of the law - he was guilty of breaking God's command to "be fruitful and multiply." According to Barclay, they said that by not having children he killed his own descendants, and had lessened the glory of God on earth.

reply to post by Char-Lee


Very valid point Char-Lee

reply to post by Char-Lee


The word rabbi means teacher. This is the translation. Yeshua was given into the authorities of the time from the Pharisees. The pharisees of the time were considered the wisest of the teachers. What they did was impose numerous rules and rules and more rules which had no place in the Bible. A man being married before 30 was surely one of them, as I have read the Bible and if that's in it, I must of missed it. I'm not perfect. If you can find it, please alert me to it's location. Yeshua compared these pharisees to hypocrites, basically telling you what to do, but not doing it themselves. Maybe this will clarify:

23 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.

8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and He is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

If it doesn't fall in the 40 year gap between Jesus' supposed death and his first mention from Saul of Tarsis,... Then it's just another red herring...

A balanced review of different articles on the subject:
www.religionnewsblog.com...

The test results do not prove that Jesus had a wife or disciples who were women, only that the fragment is more likely a snippet from an ancient manuscript than a fake, the scholars agree. Karen L. King, the historian at Harvard Divinity School who gave the papyrus its name and fame, has said all along that it should not be regarded as evidence that Jesus married, only that early Christians were actively discussing celibacy, sex, marriage and discipleship.

Does it matter if Jesus was married?

If Jesus had been married, the Bible would have told us so, or there would be some unambiguous statement to that fact. Scripture would not be completely silent on such an important issue. The Bible mentions Jesus’ mother, adoptive father, half-brothers, and half-sisters. Why would it neglect to mention the fact that Jesus had a wife? Those who believe/teach that Jesus was married are doing so in an attempt to “humanize” Him, to make Him more ordinary, more like everyone else. People simply do not want to believe that Jesus was God in the flesh (John 1:1, 14; 10:30). So, they invent and believe myths about Jesus being married, having children, and being an ordinary human being.

A secondary question would be, “Could Jesus Christ have been married?” There is nothing sinful about being married. There is nothing sinful about having sexual relations in marriage. So, yes, Jesus could have been married and still be the sinless Lamb of God and Savior of the world. At the same time, there is no biblical reason for Jesus to marry. That is not the point in this debate. Those who believe Jesus was married do not believe that He was sinless, or that He was the Messiah. Getting married and having children is not why God sent Jesus. Mark 10:45 tells us why Jesus came, “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”