Spiritual Reorientation 1: The Meaning comes from Within

1.

The very absence of a universal human language shows that there is no meaning outside of humankind. If everything naturally supplied its own meaning, it would mean the same to every single one of us, and we'd all be speaking the same language. Our purpose, the meaning of life, and the answers to who we are would be immediately apparent to our senses and hence similar among all peoples. The very variety of language and ideas shows quite the opposite, that meaning is generated within each individual, with no existence outside the boundaries of our own skin.

A word can mean something entirely different to someone else by virtue of each individual acting as a different source of meaning. Even if every term is conventional, or passed down from one generation to the next, every idea and feeling they connote is entirely unique, and sensed only by the one generating its meaning. Smoke often means fire, but only to those who have experienced both smoke and fire. There is no meaning in the smoke, nor in the fire.

2.

Aristotle said language was sound with meaning. Chomsky disagrees and says language is meaning with sound. But there is no "with" between the meaning and the sound. There is no connection. There is no vehicle to carry meaning from one spot to the next. Meaning does not exist in sound or in marks on paper. It begins and ends at the individual's boundary: the very limits of our understanding, senses, mind and body—all one and the same thing—a creator and destroyer of meaning.

If this is so, why do we search for meaning outside of ourselves, and grow nihilistic when we do not find it? Upon witnessing this endeavor, I'm reminded of Sisyphus, the king doomed to push a large boulder up a hill only to watch it roll down again, and to repeat this process until the end of time. Searching for meaning or truth or whatever we wish to call it is no different. It is "the theatre of the absurd" to paraphrase Camus—searching for something that isn't there, and continuously doing so expecting a different result.

3.

There are meanings to life, and each one is forever embedded in the source from which they come. A reorientation from searching for meaning to supplying the meaning is required in order for spirituality to be an honest pursuit, or to remain absurd.

reply to post by Aphorism


I'm reminded of this quote by Burroughs;

Language is a virus from outer space-William S. Burroughs

It is worth noting that if a virus were to attain a state of wholly benign equilibrium with its host cell it is unlikely that its presence would be readily detected OR THAT IT WOULD NECESSARILY BE RECOGNIZED AS A VIRUS. I suggest that the word is just such a virus.

www.skilluminati.com...

One person suggested to me that Burroughs meant we had a quasi-psychic ability before we became dependent on the spoken word as our primary means of communication. I'm not 100% sure that's what Burroughs meant, but I like the theory.

And there's this movie, "Pontypool"

...somehow a virus has found its way into human language, infecting certain words, and only certain words infect certain people. Once these infected words are said and understood, the virus takes hold of the host.

Sorry if this is way of topic or if it appears that I missed your point, I'm just typing stream of conscious.

reply to post by tanda7


No I agree. Language is the axiom upon which all doctrines and truths are built. No one has a clue where or whence it came.

reply to post by Aphorism

Animal communication is any transfer of information on the part of one or more animals that has an effect on the current or future behavior of another animal. The study of animal communication — sometimes called zoo semiotics (defined as the study of sign communication or semiosis in animals; distinguishable from anthroposemiotics, the study of human communication) — has played an important part in ethology, sociobiology, and the study of animal cognition.

Animal communication is a rapidly growing area of study. Even in the 21st century, many prior understandings related to diverse fields such as personal symbolic name use, animal emotions, animal culture, learning and even animal sexual behavior, long thought to be well understood, have been revolutionized.

That is from whence is came

Aphorism
A word can mean something entirely different to someone else by virtue of each individual acting as a different source of meaning. Even if every term is conventional, or passed down from one generation to the next, every idea and feeling they connote is entirely unique, and sensed only by the one generating its meaning.

How have you reoriented the thread topic spirituality to words and language?
Words are pointers, tools of the mind. Looks like you want to talk again about words and their meanings.

Aphorism
Aristotle said language was sound with meaning. Chomsky disagrees and says language is meaning with sound. But there is no "with" between the meaning and the sound. There is no connection.

I disagree that there is no connection . Language is sound with meaning and meaning with sound .

Aphorism
There are meanings to life, and each one is forever embedded in the source from which they come.
A reorientation from searching for meaning to supplying the meaning is required in order for spirituality to be an honest pursuit, or to remain absurd.

So now you( royal 'WE') are not nihilists?
The next sentence is absurd, spirituality IS the meaning- it requires no verbal supply of meaning /ideas to make the search for oneself seen by you as "an honest pursuit" as it is the most honest discovery .
There is NOthing to reorient .

I am a simple person who knows little if anything about philosophy, but many years ago, about 20 plus, I decided to listen to what spoke to me from the new testament...jesus words (supposedly) and it changed my life. Scholars who suppose to translate according to their predisposed understanding or discard the truth for the same reason have set up the destruction of mankind's spiritual growth. There is wisdom to be found everywhere if we just pay attention.

reply to post by BDBinc

How have you reoriented the thread topic spirituality to words and language?
Words are pointers, tools of the mind. Looks like you want to talk again about words and their meanings.

You say the meaning comes from without. I say it comes from within. I find your spirituality backwards, wrong, and meaningless, and it all rests on what words you use. I think the fact that you cannot meet my arguments with arguments of your own is quite indicative of my claim. Put some words in certain order, make it understandable, and see if you can refute what I've said.

I disagree that there is no connection . Language is sound with meaning and meaning with sound .

Disagreeing doesn't make me wrong.

So now you( royal 'WE') are not nihilists?
The next sentence is absurd, spirituality IS the meaning- it requires no verbal supply of meaning /ideas to make the search for oneself seen by you as "an honest pursuit" as it is the most honest discovery .

You say it is, yet I don't believe you. That's why I say your spirituality is dishonest and absurd. You could try convince me and lead my mind in a certain direction with reason and understanding, but it seems simply disagreeing and making a huff works quite well for you.

reply to post by Kashai


Wrong species, Kashai.

reply to post by BDBinc

I disagree that there is no connection . Language is sound with meaning and meaning with sound .

Yes, there is a connection now because the words have developed momentum in the consensus.
But,
If you took the most offensive word you can think of and teach a generation of children that your word is the name of something beautiful like a rose, would they instinctively feel that your word for that rose was incorrect or would the word take on different qualities?

Is the meaning of a word imbedded into the sound of the word?

...spirituality IS the meaning- it requires no verbal supply of meaning /ideas to make the search for oneself seen by you as "an honest pursuit" as it is the most honest discovery .

So true, and yet it is discussed ad nauseum.

reply to post by Aphorism


Not really that animals can communicate in a simple way lends credence to the conclusion. That when it comes to development of humans
the process has an inherent origin, this being animals.

It is easy to see why this beautiful and mysterious phenomenon captured Shipman's young and mathematically inclined imagination. The bee's finely tuned choreography is a virtuoso performance of biologic information processing. The central "waggling" part of the dance is the most important. To convey the direction of a food source, the bee varies the angle the waggling run makes with an imaginary line running straight up and down. One of Von Frisch's most amazing discoveries involves this angle. If you draw a line connecting the beehive and the food source, and another line connecting the hive and the spot on the horizon just beneath the sun, the angle formed by the two lines is the same as the angle of the waggling run to the imaginary vertical line. The bees, it appears, are able to triangulate as well as a civil engineer.

Source

Relativism is freedom, imo. If meaning were absolute, we wouldn't be able to call ourselves individuals. We would be slaves to a regime of a still unknown force. However, humans often find meanings that are also held by others. So we're not absolutely free.

originally posted by: Aphorism
The very absence of a universal human language shows that there is no meaning outside of humankind.

A smile is universal.
In studies it has been found that the female is more inclined to understand and see facial and body language than males. Males somehow rely on the words for meaning and hence probably misunderstand life to a greater degree - they need it put into symbols to try to make sense out of it.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

A smile is universal.
In studies it has been found that the female is more inclined to understand and see facial and body language than males. Males somehow rely on the words for meaning and hence probably misunderstand life to a greater degree - they need it put into symbols to try to make sense out of it. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

More inclined doesn't mean always inclined. A smile wouldn't be so universal if everyone didn't understand it. A genuine smile is an act of joy, and not a means of communication. We all understand life through smiling.

originally posted by: Aphorism
More inclined doesn't mean always inclined.

I know - that is why I didn't write always inclined. I can see how language is difficult for you!!
The problem with words (concepts) is they can be misinterpreted and when more than one is used (forming ideas which are also concepts) it gets even worse. That is why only the non conceptual is true - prior to conceptualization lies the truth. When trying to understand one stands under assumptions - which makes an ass of u and an ass of me!! ha ha.

A smile wouldn't be so universal if everyone didn't understand it.

But everyone does - so it is. Again language seems hard for you to grasp and you state what is obvious to most. Yes, I know 'most' does not mean all, just in case you feel the need to explain it.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I know - that is why I didn't write always inclined. I can see how language is difficult for you!!
The problem with words (concepts) is they can be misinterpreted and when more than one is used (forming ideas which are also concepts) it gets even worse. That is why only the non conceptual is true - prior to conceptualization lies the truth. When trying to understand one stands under assumptions - which makes an ass of u and an ass of me!! ha ha.


A smile wouldn't be so universal if everyone didn't understand it.

But everyone does - so it is. Again language seems hard for you to grasp and you state what is obvious to most. Yes, I know 'most' does not mean all, just in case you feel the need to explain it.

Language is very difficult. It is one of the most profound human artifacts. Anyone who sees it as easy only displays their ignorance on the topic.

If the non-conceptual is true, then your concepts about it are false. But as always, "true" is an honorific term. We place it on many concepts we hold dear, including the concept of the non-conceptual. Perhaps if you wish it to be true, you should stop speaking about it.

a reply to: Aphorism
A smile is not spoken - and cannot be spoken - however, you will no doubt only hear or read the word 'smile' (turning it into a concept) just to confuse matters.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

A smile is not spoken - and cannot be spoken - however you will no doubt only hear or read the word 'smile' just to confuse matters. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Neither is a smile communicated, unless its done to deceive the one who looks at it. A smile is not a symbol nor a sign.

originally posted by: Aphorism
Neither is a smile communicated, unless its done to deceive the one who looks at it. A smile is not a symbol nor a sign.

A smile is non conceptual - it is a smile. You seem to be reading something into a smile.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

A smile is non conceptual - it is a smile. You seem to be reading something into a smile. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

I never said it was conceptual. It isn't me saying a smile is universal.

There is meaning from all things in existence, one must first learn how to interpret the messages using all of one's faculties to gleen one's unique ultimate perception. Of course, discussing the unique perceptions of others may serve to further humankind's intellectual and spiritual knowledge and, hopefully, inspiring the inquisitive to step beyond the constraints of presumed known science and dogma.