A Message to my Fellow Britains

reply to post by DrunkYogi

Your attitude stinks,

hmmm....

did you ever hear about that kettle calling that pot black.... you might want to look into it.

Besides there is nothing wrong with my attitude all I done was state that i disagreed with the OP, why i disagreed and then stated my opinion that I love living in the UK.

According to you, that makes me eligible for some of your juvenile insults by you saying I am "twisted in the head".

And why did you say that?

simply because you disagree with me and can not match me on a intellectual level so you resort to the petty playground tactics of name calling.

Also, believe me, i am the sort of person that would say it to your face, let there be no doubt about that. I have been involved in and witnessed more violence than you would believe my friend

Ahhh yes, more playground talk, this sounds like the "I am harder than you" barter of the pubescent teenager. I dont care how much violence you claim to have seen or what you would like to think you would say to may face, this is a online forum and none of that really matters.

But let me get on to where i do actually agree with you.

it does not matter where you where raised etc. What matters is your attitude right now, that is who you are

This is where I agree with you, having a poor start in live is not really a excuse to go out and become a criminal.

Anyway.....

I do want to discuss this its a interesting topic but really if all you can do if you disagree with me is make more feeble attempts to insult me I am not really interested in conversing with you further.

Council Estates are designed to breed crime. It's the perfect environment. Same as the ghettos in America, ect.

If you are born into one of those purposely designed that way environments, you are very likely to be involved in crime yourself one day.

The kids who live on these estates are dirt poor, have nothing to do to occupy themselves, are surrounded by drugs and crime on a daily basis.

It's a purposefully created recipe for crime.

Yes, this post is aimed at OtherSideofTheCoin.

SensiblyReckless
Long time lurker coming out of hiding because I wanted to S&F this thread.

I stand in solidarity with Anon and my fellow Brits, as I can see OP clearly does too judging by the avatar and the excellent points raised.

Thanks, OP. You've just restored a little of my faith in humanity.

Many thanks - Stayed tuned.

SensiblyReckless
Council Estates are designed to breed crime. It's the perfect environment. Same as the ghettos in America, ect.

If you are born into one of those purposely designed that way environments, you are very likely to be involved in crime yourself one day.

The kids who live on these estates are dirt poor, have nothing to do to occupy themselves, are surrounded by drugs and crime on a daily basis.

It's a purposefully created recipe for crime.

Yes, this post is aimed at OtherSideofTheCoin.

Certainly the case around here. My Mum was a teacher in a 'social dump' estate where the crime families from Manchester and Liverpool were moved to while trials were ongoing.

There would be at least one kid in her class (reception, aged 5) who would have a long list of crimes on their record already as their parents would push their kids through open windows so they could rob houses to buy their heroin. Somehow a few of them managed to completely break free from that life though and are really friendly people with jobs who look after their kids.

While the country has major issues, we still do live in one of the best countries in the world - healthcare, sanitation and education are thinks a number of nations can only dream of and there was a load of funding going into impoverished areas before Tory scum scrapped it all.

I think a lot of members are taking other side of the coin the wrong way so it seems.
Thinking that because he/she likes living here taken as his/her ignorance of poverty and political conditions which make it unfavourable for those who do not have a decent way of life, I'm sure he/she is well aware of the current state of the Union

I do enjoy staying in my country but at the same time its shocking and utterly disgusting that in my city of Glasgow 1/5 of children live in poverty
and here we have the government spending millions on the commonwealth games we are due to host this year but children are struggling to get a square meal, clothes on their backs or the security and comfort of a warm home. All the things necessary for them to develop into decent human beings with a chance at life.
Those in poverty are placed their from birth and through no fault of their own, their parents on the other likely similar circumstances, when austerity measures don't work and cut backs force people into unemployment people often have no other choice but to go onto benefits and into poverty.
There is no excuse for crime but when its the difference between starvation i.e life and death then you will steal to feed your family even rake bins at supermarkets and the back of restaurants to feed your family. The same with selling drugs to make ends meet it's just the way society is, where the government wont help those it damns it then criminalises them into private prisons and institutionalises them, my friend works with disadvantaged youths in Glasgow and she tells me that the kids rather than make it on the outside because they cant afford rent or their energy bills they repeat offend because its cheaper and easier for them to be housed in prison and they get meals every day and no bills to pay. What does that tell you about society where kids would rather give up their freedom because they cant afford to live outside.

How many families would get by if they were selling drugs , but it was done legally where they had a license and paid 50% tax on their products - Amsterdam cafes et al.
No more small judicial sentences and holding up valuable court time for bigger cases (such as trying criminal politicians or corporations for tax avoidance)

If you enjoy living in the UK this applies to anyone , fair enough I do too , but if you think that there is nothing wrong with the current electoral dictatorship , oligarchy then please continue on in your blind ignorance.

reply to post by SensiblyReckless

Council Estates are designed to breed crime. It's the perfect environment. Same as the ghettos in America, ect.

My problem is that is not a excuse.

In the UK a 12 year old heading off to high school with parents on £25,000 has just as much chance in life as a kid whose parents are unemployed. There is a lot to be said for good parenting.

My main issue with this thread is that people seem to think that it is everyone's fault (mainly the government) other than the individual that they turn into drug dealers.

that is just not true.

If you are born into one of those purposely designed that way environments, you are very likely to be involved in crime yourself one day.

My experience says differently, I was raised for part of my life in one of the roughest council estates in the country and my high school was bang smack in the middle of a council estate. Almost none of my peers at school have turned to crime.

The kids who live on these estates are dirt poor, have nothing to do to occupy themselves, are surrounded by drugs and crime on a daily basis.

Well they do have education, if their parents would have them spend their evenings studding rather than hanging around the streets smoking and getting pregnant, then again, they might have better life prospects.

OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by sapien82

 

Let me put it to you like this.

I do not see any excuse for anyone to be openly racist, deal drugs or commit any other crimes

and that includes poverty.

Then how do you feel about what 999zxcv said?

Post:

It is more a question of follow the money with me the Goverment is borrowing £ 160 Billion MORE than planned while cutting 60% over the years Road's are in a terrible state pot-hole's everywhere wages have stayed the same for ten plus years for most so where has all the money gone if they have to borrow more each month with all the cut backs ?? House's are 3 x more than in 2000 as with Oil x 4 look around you is it any better than 1990 /2000 where is the 20 + billion than some banks are losing per year going the world seems to end if a company lose's 4% share value one year after making 6-8 % profit for ten years straight for everything else there is lithium

To steal is a crime, to swindle money is a crime. This government is most likely fraudulently wasting tax payers money on larger scales than a lot can even fathom and your solution is to vote?

Voting gets us nowhere when each party can be as out of touch and corrupt as the next one. I tend to agree with what you say most of the time and like you I love this land, I'm proud of it's heritage and I call it home. But you said poverty is no excuse for committing a crime, being a politician is not an excuse either... They are in no way poor so why did so many of them get away with the expenses scandle.

Dealing drugs is wrong don't get me wrong, but if your living in squalor and have a child on the way with nobody to help or any way to claim help things like dealing can be a way to survive. Most people want a decent way of living but it is so hard to access it.

If you don't believe just how hard it is for some disadvantaged people to find a break in this land try volunteering for an organization like Turning Point or CRI

I volunteered for 2 years before I found my break and I know some in similar situations who have educated themselves in numerous college courses/dole courses and also volunteered and got nowhere. People who have never had a wage all their life but have never sat on their arse and been a scrounger... I consider myself and people like I just described the lucky ones, some in this country are literally scraping by on the bones of their arse and it's not right.

reply to post by RAY1990


Two things, firstly, I dont think blaming the government is any kind of excuse, we are all personally accountable for our actions as a individual.

Secondly, In the UK we have a very robust (some would say too robust) social welfare system, my younger brother was on benefits for a while, he got 75% of his rent paid and almost £200 a week. Now on top of that we have the other benefits that we all take advantage for and his council tax was massively reduced, he was offered further training and loads of help to get back into work. If you are unemployed in the UK, you are not going to have a comfortable life, but you are not going to end up going hungry, homeless and cold because the state provides you with loads of support.

This kind of ties into my first point, not only are the government not to blame but they actively provide as much support to people possible to avoid them having to turn to crime though the social welfare system.

OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by RAY1990

 

Two things, firstly, I dont think blaming the government is any kind of excuse, we are all personally accountable for our actions as a individual.

Secondly, In the UK we have a very robust (some would say too robust) social welfare system, my younger brother was on benefits for a while, he got 75% of his rent paid and almost £200 a week. Now on top of that we have the other benefits that we all take advantage for and his council tax was massively reduced, he was offered further training and loads of help to get back into work. If you are unemployed in the UK, you are not going to have a comfortable life, but you are not going to end up going hungry, homeless and cold because the state provides you with loads of support.

This kind of ties into my first point, not only are the government not to blame but they actively provide as much support to people possible to avoid them having to turn to crime though the social welfare system.

£200 a week and 75% rent payed a week, he must have been older than people I know or living in a much more expensive part of the UK, or possibly children too. I used to receive £110 a fortnight. I lived at home with parents.

You can and will be forced now to accept help from government schemes through ponzi scheme company's such as Ingeus, although the intent might be their for the teams in these companies it doesn't translate to decent employment. That money is mainly wasted because they throw nearly everyone on the same courses and flood certain job markets. Although they do heavily invest in some who are near guaranteed work in some fields who are out of luck... They are the minority and I suspect it's done to acquire a quick penny or two on bonuses and incentives.

I have people I used to hang around with from school on these courses, it's 9-5 training and it's always the same faces on the same schemes. What does that tell you? Genuine question.

I agree with you though, our government and institutes do help the people and rightfully so. It's not enough though and personally with all the cuts they should have diverted saved money on real infrastructure that creates jobs and industry and making it simpler for people to get apprenticeships, education and work... Gone are the days a 16 yr old walked from school for the last time and into a job within 24 hrs, it's not a parenting issue either.

reply to post by RAY1990


Correction, he got about £200 fortnightly

Regardless the government provides everyone with enough to to live.

I get fed up with people using the government and poverty as a excuse to turn to crime.

Its just a excuse, work hard and apply yourself and you can do literally anything you want to do (with in reason).

It is the primarily the fault of the individual.

OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by RAY1990

 

Correction, he got about £200 fortnightly

Regardless the government provides everyone with enough to to live.

I get fed up with people using the government and poverty as a excuse to turn to crime.

Its just a excuse, work hard and apply yourself and you can do literally anything you want to do (with in reason).

It is the primarily the fault of the individual.

True enough to an extent.

Crime is in all aspects of society, give them the opportunity and most will take it. Education plays a big key in crime too, it pays to know just how far you can go without it being a criminal offense.

These courses the Gov has the unemployed doing are generally 9-5 and 5 days a week for averagely £100-£200 a fortnight, help with traveling expenses that's it. You'd have to be an idiot not to work if your doing that and a lot of people are on these courses. Again, what does that tell you?

If they screw up they get sanctioned too, that means no money for a 2 week, 1 month or anywhere up to a year without benefits.

Your right it all comes down to the individual but one can only use the opportunities he/she knows of and has.

OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by RAY1990

 

Correction, he got about £200 fortnightly

Regardless the government provides everyone with enough to to live.

I get fed up with people using the government and poverty as a excuse to turn to crime.

Its just a excuse, work hard and apply yourself and you can do literally anything you want to do (with in reason).

It is the primarily the fault of the individual.

You nailed it there man

primarily the fault of the individual , the same individuals who are in power abusing their place of power and manipulating the tax payers, the same individual bankers who played with peoples investments and savings, the same greedy CEO's who extort the Uk government and abuse the tax payer, the same individuals who steal from the public tax payers.

If the individual is to blame , then why do these individuals not have to answer for their crimes, like the common serfs do , your on state benefit , but be warned you fiddle the books and we will bang you up !
Where is the accountability of the individual in power those individuals at the top who apparently are above the law.
It's no excuse for us then there should be no excuse for anyone else regardless of your station in life. Law's are universal and should be applied to everyone.

One further thing, my dad worked for 35 years in the same job then faced redundancy when a new company took over the forth ports in Grangemouth. He then was forced to retire to bring in cheap labour and younger workers and he then went onto job seekers allowance however was told he did not qualify despite paying tax since he was 16 years old , worked a job every day of his life and didn't get anything back.

So what does that tell you about how the government thinks of those that pay taxes and work everyday.

The system is a joke , a farce a blurry dirty reflection of a democracy, the quicker we remove those criminals in power the better.

As I said "I have a dream" , pretty big dream that we get our independence create a wonderful socialist democracy then invite you all into our new Union so you can ditch the crooks in Westminster and the city state of London.

OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by RAY1990

 

Correction, he got about £200 fortnightly

Regardless the government provides everyone with enough to to live.

Are you sure it wasn't £70 a week as that is the max JSA?

Sorry but they simply don't - See the 10,000 dead from ATOS/Gov's new work capability assessment for disabled people, the two year waiting list for disabled people to claim DLA, the number of people setting themselves on fire inside or outside job centres in protest, the number of people having to use foodbanks as jobcentre staff have been instructed by the government to sanction so many people per week or be fired.

I was accused of fraud a year ago and had to go several months penniless (I'm deemed unfit for work by gov and several doctors) as they somehow had me down as moving house five times a week despite staying in the same house all the time. If it wasn't for friends and family chipping in I'd have starved to death and this is so commonplace newspapers don't report it as it's not news.

If people were paid the benefits they were due your statement would be right, but in most cases people go months without seeing a penny owed to them.

reply to post by sapien82


Spot on.

HSBC knowingly failed to monitor £38 Trillion, which was later found to belong to terrorists, drug cartels, money laundering and tax evasion - not a single banker was put in prison or punished in any way for this - earn 1p over the threshold for income support and you get questioned by the police and threatened with jail.

One law for the rich, one for the poor.

it has been abundantly clear now for years , well as soon as you are old enough to know better when you take a look at the world and see that the insanely rich or those on the top of the heap get away with everything , whether they are entertainers or some form of judicial power or government employee at the top earning bracket ,or a CEO then you are effectively above the law in a sense that your solicitors lawyers can manipulate law or pay of certain people and nothing is done about it.

Pete docherty example number 1 , how many times has he been caught in possession or selling to minors and he never got banged up once just had to pay some cash, me or you would be banged up for a 5 year sentence.

MP's involved in claims scandals , only a handful were prosecuted but they all broke the law and stole from the UK tax payer, if that was me or you we'd be in jail for ten years on fraud charges.

It's not right and if you say we can vote and change things, nothing gets changed at all , because the focus groups that report to government are all people who side with the parties and help maniuplate legislation which benefits them and no one else.

It's absolutely inhumane for people to go through life being greedy and unlawful lining their own pockets whislt others suffer, how come these MP's always manage to walk off with a pay rise or a bonus at the end of the year or a super bonus when they retire and what have they done to deserve it? Nothing that would benefit future generations, my CEO got a bonus last year and he'd only joined the company for 2 months of the financial year. We haven't had a pay rise in 6 years a, where is the justification in that ?

It's an absolute joke, I feel now that voting for independence is the only real chance now that my future vote will actually mean anything as it would represent me more as there are less people voting. Even if it means losing my job I'll take that chance

Clearly there just arent enough people who have been "shocked" out of their comfort zone to take notice that things aren't right otherwise our country would be joining the list of countries who have recently revolted and overthrown their governments, but the thing is no one group or person has the answer so we are stuck struggling with the big banks, government and corporations.

sapien82
I think a lot of members are taking other side of the coin the wrong way so it seems.
Thinking that because he/she likes living here taken as his/her ignorance of poverty and political conditions which make it unfavourable for those who do not have a decent way of life, I'm sure he/she is well aware of the current state of the Union

I do enjoy staying in my country but at the same time its shocking and utterly disgusting that in my city of Glasgow 1/5 of children live in poverty
and here we have the government spending millions on the commonwealth games we are due to host this year but children are struggling to get a square meal, clothes on their backs or the security and comfort of a warm home. All the things necessary for them to develop into decent human beings with a chance at life.
Those in poverty are placed their from birth and through no fault of their own, their parents on the other likely similar circumstances, when austerity measures don't work and cut backs force people into unemployment people often have no other choice but to go onto benefits and into poverty.
There is no excuse for crime but when its the difference between starvation i.e life and death then you will steal to feed your family even rake bins at supermarkets and the back of restaurants to feed your family. The same with selling drugs to make ends meet it's just the way society is, where the government wont help those it damns it then criminalises them into private prisons and institutionalises them, my friend works with disadvantaged youths in Glasgow and she tells me that the kids rather than make it on the outside because they cant afford rent or their energy bills they repeat offend because its cheaper and easier for them to be housed in prison and they get meals every day and no bills to pay. What does that tell you about society where kids would rather give up their freedom because they cant afford to live outside.

How many families would get by if they were selling drugs , but it was done legally where they had a license and paid 50% tax on their products - Amsterdam cafes et al.
No more small judicial sentences and holding up valuable court time for bigger cases (such as trying criminal politicians or corporations for tax avoidance)

If you enjoy living in the UK this applies to anyone , fair enough I do too , but if you think that there is nothing wrong with the current electoral dictatorship , oligarchy then please continue on in your blind ignorance.

edit on 15-4-2014 by sapien82 because: (no reason given)

Brilliant post

RAY1990

OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by sapien82

 

Let me put it to you like this.

I do not see any excuse for anyone to be openly racist, deal drugs or commit any other crimes

and that includes poverty.

Then how do you feel about what 999zxcv said?

Post:

It is more a question of follow the money with me the Goverment is borrowing £ 160 Billion MORE than planned while cutting 60% over the years Road's are in a terrible state pot-hole's everywhere wages have stayed the same for ten plus years for most so where has all the money gone if they have to borrow more each month with all the cut backs ?? House's are 3 x more than in 2000 as with Oil x 4 look around you is it any better than 1990 /2000 where is the 20 + billion than some banks are losing per year going the world seems to end if a company lose's 4% share value one year after making 6-8 % profit for ten years straight for everything else there is lithium

To steal is a crime, to swindle money is a crime. This government is most likely fraudulently wasting tax payers money on larger scales than a lot can even fathom and your solution is to vote?

Voting gets us nowhere when each party can be as out of touch and corrupt as the next one. I tend to agree with what you say most of the time and like you I love this land, I'm proud of it's heritage and I call it home. But you said poverty is no excuse for committing a crime, being a politician is not an excuse either... They are in no way poor so why did so many of them get away with the expenses scandle.

Dealing drugs is wrong don't get me wrong, but if your living in squalor and have a child on the way with nobody to help or any way to claim help things like dealing can be a way to survive. Most people want a decent way of living but it is so hard to access it.

If you don't believe just how hard it is for some disadvantaged people to find a break in this land try volunteering for an organization like Turning Point or CRI

I volunteered for 2 years before I found my break and I know some in similar situations who have educated themselves in numerous college courses/dole courses and also volunteered and got nowhere. People who have never had a wage all their life but have never sat on their arse and been a scrounger... I consider myself and people like I just described the lucky ones, some in this country are literally scraping by on the bones of their arse and it's not right.

You raise valid points.
I feel that this 'othersideofthecoin' fellow is either dedicated to his name sake, lives in his own little bubble, or is deliberately trolling.
Sorry if that sounds rude..Directed at you OSOTC.

I'd just like to point something out about drugs, as OSOTC is blindly ignorant about them as well.

Alcohol kills more people than all illegal drugs combined, this is fact. It is a drug that effects the GABA receptors in the brain, so is not only highly addictive, the withdrawal can and does kill. In fact, there are only two classes of drugs with withdrawal symptoms that kill - alcohol and benzodiazepines (another GABA effecting drug).

Alcohol is sold legally. Benzodiazepines are prescribed to people and causes life-long addictions in people.

Pharmaceutical drugs commonly prescribed are known to be more dangerous than illicit drugs, in many, many cases.

Who are the real drug dealers making INSANE amounts of from the drugs I've mentioned?

Ask yourself that question, OSOTC.

bastion

SensiblyReckless
Council Estates are designed to breed crime. It's the perfect environment. Same as the ghettos in America, ect.

If you are born into one of those purposely designed that way environments, you are very likely to be involved in crime yourself one day.

The kids who live on these estates are dirt poor, have nothing to do to occupy themselves, are surrounded by drugs and crime on a daily basis.

It's a purposefully created recipe for crime.

Yes, this post is aimed at OtherSideofTheCoin.

Certainly the case around here. My Mum was a teacher in a 'social dump' estate where the crime families from Manchester and Liverpool were moved to while trials were ongoing.

There would be at least one kid in her class (reception, aged 5) who would have a long list of crimes on their record already as their parents would push their kids through open windows so they could rob houses to buy their heroin. Somehow a few of them managed to completely break free from that life though and are really friendly people with jobs who look after their kids.

While the country has major issues, we still do live in one of the best countries in the world - healthcare, sanitation and education are thinks a number of nations can only dream of and there was a load of funding going into impoverished areas before Tory scum scrapped it all.

Yep, the UK does have its benefits over other countries.

BUT

Higher education is only available for people with lots of money, and this was purposely done to create a wealthy, educated class divide.

The Tory scum are privatising the NHS right under our noses, bit by bit. Won't be long before it is sold off and we have no NHS.

The conditions in the UK are going to continue declining, and we will have civil unrest eventually, it will happen.

reply to post by SensiblyReckless


agreed working for the education sector , I seen it happen right before my eyes!

Tuition fees increased for public universities to the point where a student leaving university would have a basic debt of £27,000
for a 3 year degree.
Not only that but any new students on the new system would be paying interest of the UK's RPI + 3% , so 6.3%
you can use the finance calculator to work out the total borrowed and total paid back in 50 years time provided you earned over £21,000 would be £105,000 of debt
Talk about debt slavery
So it is clear to me that the tories sought to make those who already struggle , struggle further and remain debt slaves no matter if they better themselves with a degree and a chance to climb out of the bottom of the barrel.

It's a joke, anyone who actually supports this fascist regime should take a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself if your ok with other people suffering.

It's the same with the BBC and their peadophile racket, anyone still paying a BBC tv license who has kids , should be ashamed of themselves , you support a criminal organisation

sapien82
reply to post by SensiblyReckless

 

agreed working for the education sector , I seen it happen right before my eyes!

Tuition fees increased for public universities to the point where a student leaving university would have a basic debt of £27,000
for a 3 year degree.
Not only that but any new students on the new system would be paying interest of the UK's RPI + 3% , so 6.3%
you can use the finance calculator to work out the total borrowed and total paid back in 50 years time provided you earned over £21,000 would be £105,000 of debt
Talk about debt slavery
So it is clear to me that the tories sought to make those who already struggle , struggle further and remain debt slaves no matter if they better themselves with a degree and a chance to climb out of the bottom of the barrel.

It's a joke, anyone who actually supports this fascist regime should take a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself if your ok with other people suffering.

It's the same with the BBC and their peadophile racket, anyone still paying a BBC tv license who has kids , should be ashamed of themselves , you support a criminal organisation

edit on 17-4-2014 by sapien82 because: (no reason given)

Great post!

I haven't paid my TV license in years. It's an unlawful tax, so you can lawfully rebel.

Don't answer the door to them. They have no power over you.

I shall not support paedophiles and propagandists.