Obamacare is working!

reply to post by HauntWok


And when the right is in the presidency then we see a shut out from the left...
Same old song and dance

reply to post by Sremmos80


As we've seen in the early naughts, Democrats are completely spineless. Yes, often they will vote along party lines, but there were a lot of votes that crossed party lines that today no Democrat would ever admit to voting for. For one the Patriot Act. For another, the Iraq war.

buster2010

TDawgRex
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe

 

The OP is firmly in the Goebbels line of thought. Keep repeating the lie until everybody believes it. almost every post can be reduced to three or four talking points. The only thing missing is a "SQWAUK!" at the end of such inane ramblings when it comes to supporting his/her messiah.

Even though the facts are out there that the ACA is a disaster and is gaining speed, the OP clearly ignores the facts and instead toes the party line like a good little soldier, spewing forth polling data that clearly goes against the majority of other major polling networks. What's the saying? There's Polls, Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics. All easily manipulated to further another miserable agenda.

I'm sure their jackboots need shining and the brownshirt needs pressing.

edit on 9-4-2014 by TDawgRex because: Just a ETA

Didn't take long for somebody to bring up the lame Nazi references did it?

Well it did seem to be the right shoe size.

dawnstar
reply to post by Quadrivium

 

When the housing bust occurred we had a major life insurance company get put into receivership because they had invested the company's reserves into the direvitives and lost quite a bit of money.
I don't know weather or not the health insurance companies did the same but well obamacare just might have bailed them out of that mess.
It could very well be that the insurance companies are already quite insolvent and needing a bailout and they haven't gotten to most of the boomers yet!

Leave it to one of the more senior members of ATS to hit the nail so squarely on the head as to drive the point home in one shot, and yet to still have the point go right over the heads of most ATS members.

Now, I grant you, this thread is in the Political Mudslinging Forum, so if you’re here just to find fault with one political party or the other you can skip the rest of this post. This is going to be about math and common sense. Move along.

Think about insurance for a moment, specifically life insurance. How does an insurance company make a profit? Well, of course they take in premiums, and they pay out when you die. Ideally, for the insurance company, you live a long life, and the money you pay in premiums is greater than the payout at the end of the policy.

But, of course, if life insurance companies relied on that, they would go broke in a hurry. To remain profitable, life insurance companies must invest your premiums into something with a steady, calculated yield. This leaves them with a big problem. They have large sums of money, tens of billions or more, that they need to invest in a relatively safe investment with a moderately high rate of return. What would that be?

The yield on bonds would be too low. Stocks would be too unpredictable. If you’re talking tens of millions, you can probably find some decent investments, but tens of billions would be a different matter. Fortunately, for life insurance companies, they can always count on inflation. Having to pay out on a million dollar policy in ten years is a lot different than paying out on a million dollar policy today.

Health insurance companies have a more immediate problem. For the premiums they take in this year, they will have to pay out claims this year, and the claims keep pace with inflation. So, unless they are investing in meth labs, it is nearly impossible to find short term, high yield investments for tens of billions of dollars that will make health insurance profitable. Consequently, they must charge very high premiums and minimize payouts. If they did that without the mandate, people would just refuse to buy the policies.

Enter Obamacare. Force people to buy health insurance, charge whatever you want, and cut payouts to the bone. Insurance companies can guarantee whatever profit margin they want.

The problem for me is, why do we need insurance companies in health care? All they do is siphon money out of the health care system, to the tune of tens of billions of dollars in profit every year. That’s tens of billions of dollars that people are paying that is not going to doctors, nurses, hospitals, medicine, or anything health care related. That money is going to people who sit at a desk and figure out ways to leech money out of a system that would be better spent helping people.

how much does being a liberal troll pay these days op?


and yes, of course im racist because i dont like terrible policies made up by morons. ill just save you the time of typing out your idiotic talking points. although im pretty sure you have them saved for easier copy/pasting either way.

You throw enough money at something you can get it to work...... Somewhat. So people who didn't have coverage? I guess robbing Peter to pay Paul is ok to you?

reply to post by VictorVonDoom


Thanks for expanding on my original post! Very well put.
It amazes me to no end how people do not see the ACA for what it is.......A BAILOUT!
Then you have some selfish people who think as long as they are getting something for nothing then the hell with the rest of us!
IT'S WORKING!
Yeah but for who and how many?
It is a scam and it is going to have a heavy toll on the majority of Americans.
Quad

reply to post by pngxp

how much does being a liberal troll pay these days op?

Way to stay classy

I must have hit a nerve right? Allow me to be the bigger man and apologize for having my own opinion and not just follow the hate da gubermint crowd cause it's the thing to do. i am truly sorry for formulating my own thoughts not based off of talking points pundits have brainwashed the masses with.

reply to post by GreenMtnBoys

You throw enough money at something you can get it to work...... Somewhat. So people who didn't have coverage? I guess robbing Peter to pay Paul is ok to you?

Odd, I thought paying for something myself would actually mean that I get to use the product or service I paid for. Is this a faux pas? Is it uncouth to purchase a product or service and expect to be able to use said product or service? Should I go into the grocery store next time, pick out my items, go to the cash register, pay for them, then tell the cashier to put them all back and happily leave? Doesn't seem fiscally sound to me.

reply to post by Quadrivium

Then you have some selfish people who think as long as they are getting something for nothing then the hell with the rest of us!

Yea, most modern countries have real socialized medicine, and it works. It is true that this is probably a bailout for the Insurance companies. I myself do wish that it was structured better, but alas, no, this is how it is for now, but it's a better idea than conservatives have for dealing with the poor which is "Just let them die, then make the surviving poor bury the dead!"

T'S WORKING!
Yeah but for who and how many?
It is a scam and it is going to have a heavy toll on the majority of Americans.

It is, it's pissing off conservatives, while easy to do and like shooting fish in a barrell. Does show them for what they are. And exposing people's true colors is always a good thing.

Boy, all these arguments about citizens getting treatment for pain, disease, accidents, acts of violence, child bearing.

Do you think we like it that we are in a "system" at all for getting to see a doctor?
I don't know about you, but EVERY TIME I went to the doctor or ER, papers had to be filled out "show me the money".

Then, if I did not have money, "show me your house, cars, savings, unprotected pensions".

Then, if I did not have money or assets, "show me where you work so I can attach your wages".

Then, some companies fire you for that, so you live in terror of losing your job now as they take 25% of your income.

Then, you turn to an attorney and find out that no matter what your choice, you lose, just because you cannot afford to get well in modern times.

Then, you lose everthing because you are still sick and still have to go back to doctor to get well so you can go back to work and do it all over again.

You bet, the ACA is worse than that. No wonder superior thinkers, like aliens, don't want to mingle with us. Sarcasm most definitely intended.

but it's a better idea than conservatives have for dealing with the poor which is "Just let them die, then make the surviving poor bury the dead!

reply to post by HauntWok


It just wouldn't be the poor sick that we would be burying though... We would also probably be burying the insurance industry as we know it as well as the healthcare industry... Money delivered through these programs is like an addiction. Great at first if you happen to find yourselves at the receiving end of it but if you haven't figured it out yet you probably will soon! It's isn't that great after awhile!
They have the healthcare providers hooked! At first it was great they could charge more for their services and still have patients because most of those patients never really even paid attention to the whole bill just the amount that they had to pay! Where at one time the doctor really didn't live much better than their patients they could now earn alot more and move out into the burbs in a nicer home drive nicer cars eat better food!!
And the insurance companies also thought it was great to make deals a devil (the gov't) they didn't have to worry when the amount that they wanted in premiums since the gov't would always step in and expand the programs so they could have more!
The healthcare providers were the first to realize the other side of this coin though when the insurance companies started making more and more decisions as to how they should treat their patients. And now we got the gov't stepping in and and dictating to both provider and insurance companies.
Yep this sure is a free nation isn't it???
In my area of the states something like 70% or the revenue for the medical providers is coming through gov't programs.
I would venture to guess that neither dem or republican will ever do a thing to cut back on these programs since if you took 70% of the revenues out of the industry you would end up with a world of hurt!
and well bush at one time had both houses of congress did he cut it back?? If I remember right he gave the insurance companies a great gift also with his medicare expansion.
Sit back and take a closer look at what is going on. Regardless of weather they be dems or republicans they seem to be moving in a direction of tightening a noose around the people!
We the people have been seeing wages falling behind and the cost of living has gotten out of many people's reach.
The dems answer is to expand those programs more.
The republican answer seems to be to demonize the people as being lazy stupid whatever.
But neither will dare to step on their buddies toes and do anything about the actual problem. That might result in a drop in profits for the business sector and thus a drop in their precious stock investments for themselves and their buddies!
Besides the more the people become dependent on the gov't for things like food shelter healthcare will the more subservient they will end up being!!
I would propose that weather they be republicans or democrats that is their true goal. To remove the freedom from the people and dependency does = servitude!

reply to post by MOMof3


What makes you think all that still isn't happening ?

There's still 48 million uninsured according to some polls and the deductibles are still "due & payable" by you and me.

reply to post by xuenchen


Because the caps have been removed and in my state, the coverage I got was 6350 out of pocket per year. That won't break me. And, pre-existing conditions have been removed. That alone, is a major economic plus for the individual. Plus, my college age son can be on my plan without paying for insurance with his Pell Grant. Which, just by coincidence is the amount the college offered plan costs.

reply to post by MOMof3


It's great you have benefited and can afford this.

But the sad fact is many people can't.

The cap limits only work out when somebody can actually get the money to begin with.


And many can't get Medicaid for at least two reasons;

1. their state hasn't expanded it

2. they still don't qualify because their income is notched out.

Congress (via executive branch HHS) made a severe error when they mandated the States to expand Medicaid or else suffer Federal payment cuts.

The SCOTUS struck that out as “Unconstitutionally Coercive” (a 7/2 decision).

And plus that, many States will go broke and raise taxes like crazy to pay for the legal expansions.

Big problem unsolved.

reply to post by xuenchen


And were those states that refused the funds run by conservative governors who made a huge song and dance about how they were going to refuse Obamacare?

I believe they were!

HauntWok
reply to post by xuenchen

 

And were those states that refused the funds run by conservative governors who made a huge song and dance about how they were going to refuse Obamacare?

I believe they were!

Not sure.

But some states w/Republican Governors have expanded (Iowa, Arizona, Michigan, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Dakota, Ohio) ?

and,
Missouri w/Democrat Governor has not, but is "considering".

Need lists for comparison.

Need list of expansion states and any possible restrictions and variables.

I think many states are afraid of financial disasters because the Feds won't pay 100%.

Willtell
reply to post by guohua

 

The arguments been won. The entire civilized world has health care for all. Its America that is BEHIND!

And behind because of the racists and bigots in this country who hate the poor, minorities, woman, and anything other than rich mostly white men.

It's clear bigotry of some sort is behind the ugliness, lies, distortions, of the anti ACA people.

WHAT PHILOSOPHY IS BEHIND YOUR IDEAS?

Its not love, empathy, Intelligence, democracy, religion, nothing but selfishness, greed, bigotry, hatred, and lies.

edit on 9-4-2014 by Willtell because: (no reason given)

What is clear is the liberal agenda of trying to guilt trip everyone into standing behind a failed law, by saying everyone is a racist who doesnt like it. What are you 4? grow up pal. Explain why were millions dropped by their insurance companies, or now have to pay huge portions of their income to meet the copay. If this act wasn't intended to help insurance companies bilk the citizens of this country out of their money then why is there a penalty?

HauntWok
reply to post by xuenchen

 

And were those states that refused the funds run by conservative governors who made a huge song and dance about how they were going to refuse Obamacare?

I believe they were!

To be fair you need to separate this question into two issues; 1) A governor may be making a political statement that fits within his/her conservative beliefs 2) He has been elected by a majority of voters but he represents all of the people of the state.

A governor could certainly be very much against Obamacare until it is law and then he/she takes the funds because to not to would be harmful to the state. A responsible executive holds himself to a higher standard than partisanship when making executive decisions.

reply to post by xuenchen


Well, I did without for seven years after we lost ours from a major illness and my husband lost his job. We had "pre-existing conditions" by then. I could buy health insurance but they would not cover my hypertension or any illnesses associated with it. So, it was worthless for 600 per month and 15K deductible with a cap. My two daughters who make less then 25K per year have coverage also since ACA.

I have settled for the ACA because I was a victim of the last health insurance coupon system. What I really wanted was single payer, medicare for all, universal health care. I hope that is what we end up with eventually.

reply to post by MOMof3


I hear ya.

Even though many states had high risk insurance long before ACA, I know it was expensive.

here's an old state by state list

xuenchen
reply to post by MOMof3

 

I hear ya.

Even though many states had high risk insurance long before ACA, I know it was expensive.

here's an old state by state list

It's going to get even More Expensive.
Obama didn't get the numbers or the health people to sigh up he needed.

While the White House can claim credit for a net increase of 9.3 million insured and a lowered uninsured rate from 20.5 percent to 15.8 percent, the data provides a significantly different picture than that painted by President Obama and the ACA’s advocates.

First, a significant amount of this increase comes from Medicaid enrollments, not private insurance. Almost six million people enrolled in Medicaid, and earlier studies showed that a relatively small number of those came from the expansion built into the ACA; most of these would have been Medicaid-eligible prior to the reform.

Another 8.2 million more people enrolled in employer-provided health care, as 7.1 million left the “other” category and another 1.6 million left the individual insurance markets. Only 3.9 million actually enrolled in insurance plans through state or federal exchanges – not 7.1 million as claimed by Obama. That number falls far short of even the lowered expectations issued by HHS and the White House earlier this year.

Moreover, those who did enroll through the state exchanges didn’t provide the demographic lift and risk-pool support needed to prevent massive increases in either premiums or deductibles, or both, in the near future. Pharmacy benefit manager Express Scripts, which collected more data from insurers than HHS managed through its own exchanges, determined that the incoming enrollees require more medical attention than the previous risk pools, not less – which means that insurers will need to raise premiums even more than first thought.

Link

Read more at the link provided, you won't like it.

Here is another Shocker or NOT!
Linky