Obamacare is working!

reply to post by HauntWok


Sadly the so call "job creators" has become a greedy bastard breed, now more than ever, thanks to capitalism gone one way and corrupted, because rather than taking their profits an investing in consumer that support their services, they rather invest in the political system and the greedy bastard politicians so they can cement with laws their rights to be greedy bastards by force.

What's wrong with having a system that is guided by charity? This as opposed to a system that is dictated by government and funded by Robin Hood theft. If the federal government runs it, it's outside of their enumerated powers, and is ruled from the ivory tower, then it's destined to failure. Obamacare/ACA does not work. To "work", means that it benefits every man, woman, and child in the country equally if it is dictated by the federal government. It doesn't. If it does not benefit all equally, it has no place in the federal government.

lynxpilot
What's wrong with having a system that is guided by charity? This as opposed to a system that is dictated by government and funded by Robin Hood theft. If the federal government runs it, it's outside of their enumerated powers, and is ruled from the ivory tower, then it's destined to failure. Obamacare/ACA does not work. To "work", means that it benefits every man, woman, and child in the country equally if it is dictated by the federal government. It doesn't. If it does not benefit all equally, it has no place in the federal government.

There is nothing wrong with with a system guided by charity. However if charity worked to the extent that charity is needed, Africa would be in much better shape. They receive a ton of charity, yet that charity is dwarfed by the need. I also suspect there is not enough charity to fund and provide modern healthcare to tens of millions of Americans.

reply to post by HauntWok


I wasn't going to post because I don't want to be banned, so I'll try to keep this as polite as I possibly can. I'd like to preface this by saying while I don't agree with your opinion, I respect that you are willing to stand up for what you believe in. Now, onto what I was going to say:

The original post epitomizes the misinformation believed by the "left" (I'm not sure if you identify as a liberal, but by your post I'm inclined to believe that way.) not only about the ACA, but people who identify as conservatives in general. But let's first address the issue of Obamacare.

The main reason conservatives do not like the ACA isn't because it insures people who otherwise couldn't have gotten health insurance. It is because:

-It broke legally binding, private contracts between private citizens and health insurance companies.

-It forces people into buying something they potentially do not want. This is the basis from which people claim it is unconstitutional.

-In some cases, the quality of care people have went down compared to what they had before.

It depends on who you talk to, but in my opinion the greatest reason I dislike the ACA is as follows: it brings the healthcare system into the inefficient bureaucracy that is the government. Take a look at any government agency. All of them are riddled with waste, fraud, and abuse. The government can't run anything efficiently.

You can't be so quick to dismiss people who have ACA horror stories. The same goes for the other direction- we can't simply dismiss ACA success stories. The system can never work out perfectly for everyone. There are going to be good and bad stories on both sides of the fence.

The ACA isn't even what the tea party is primarily concerned with. The reason the tea party came to be is because there are a large number of American citizens who are deeply concerned about this drunken spending and massive public debt. The idea that we can be spending this way with no consequences is naive and foolish. We are doing untold amounts of damage to future generations. Even the CBO said the current situation is unsustainable.

Conservatives don't want the ACA to fail. We want a system that doesn't expand inefficient government in a way not permitted by the founding document.

All of that said, that isn't even really the point of what I'm trying to make at all. I don't mean this as a flame, or to be disrespectful, but you certainly come off as the common liberal in terms of your level of understanding regarding conservatism and conservatives in general. I can tell you that you are very misguided because you've given in to just about every conservative stereotype there is. While there are people of every group that fit the stereotype of their people, they are (most of the time) a small minority. Allow me to break it down for you:

The majority of conservatives aren't living in the 1950s, nor do we want to bring America back to the '50s. You've painted the typical conservative as a gay hating racist. This is simply a false hood. While you are going to find bigots everywhere you go, here is the skinny:

-Conservatives aren't hateful towards gay people. However, there are some conservatives who are against gay marriage simply because besides being a political conservative, they are also religiously conservative. The nature of conservatism is to conserve things. That said, not every political conservative is a religious conservative, and vice versa.

-I'm not sure where this notion of conservatives holding 1800s views as far as racial tensions are concerned came from, but I can tell you that it is false. There are black conservatives who are attacked, smeared, and belittled by not only the democrat party, but also the African American community in general. They are called uncle toms and traitors. Let me remind you that up until the 1960s, it was the southern democrats who wanted to keep school segregated.

Now for the issue of fear mongering. The "left" side of the political spectrum is much more notorious for doing this than the "right". Here are a few basic examples:

-If you criticize Barack Obama, you are racist.

-If you don't believe gays should be able to get married, you hate gays.

-If you don't think abortion should be used as a form of birth control, you not only hate women but you are against women's rights.

-If you support ownership of firearms, you also support children being slaughtered in school

I can go on. The simply truth is that the democrats and the "left" in general are known to use these bully tactics to silence people who disagree, playing on their fear that they don't want to be publicly hated. The "left" claims to be so tolerant of other ideas and opinions, but in reality people with differing opinions are so quick to be judged and labeled by the left.

Lastly, not every conservative watches fox news. It is true that people do, but you have to understand that people tend to watch and listen to programs that agree and reinforce their opinions and ideas. This isn't specific to conservatives, or any one group of people for that matter. It is just a well known fact. Personally I stay away from mass media in general simply I don't trust it anymore. I believe them to be mouth pieces for corporations and government.

So here is this for a conclusion (and I say this not as a flame, but simply as a response to OP):

-You should really do your homework about conservatives in general before judging them- especially when you're judging people based on stereotypes. It's offensive, makes you look dumb, and is just as bad as using racial stereotypes.

-Use critical thinking skills instead of being so quick to write off ideas that don't agree with your opinions. It makes you all the richer.

-Practice what you preach and remain open minded.

But most of all, by openly stating that you are trying to "piss off" conservatives, you are only further polarizing issues, which contributes significantly to the problem- not the solution. We expend so much energy fighting each other, but if we were to try and work out our differences and conflicting view points, we could solve so many problems.

Regards,

A 20 year old former liberal.

Ive noticed a lot of hatred on ATS in regards to Obamacare, A lot of those individuals sound like they've got their head's stuck up their asses. I cant believe that you guys WANT private healthcare to rule freely. Its a crazy idea!

I for one, like knowing i can visit a doctor/hospital, receive medical treatment without ever worrying about the cost. The NHS was set up to help those that "Cant pull their own weight"

Oh what an imperfect system we seem to have

reply to post by spurgeonatorsrevenge


I don't think you realize that the government system is not sustainable. Sustainable seems to be a left-leaning, liberal ideology these days in terms of anything else, so why wouldn't it apply to medical care? The government in the US is supposed to be minimal and liberty is supposed to be maximized. Programs like Obamacare/ACA foster a nanny state ideology and breed a nation of indifferent and entitlement-minded minions who'd freely give up their ideals of liberty to have a totalitarian federal government provide their basic needs and subsequently encourage them to become dependent. The incentive to be independent and self-supporting is gone, and in it's aftermath anybody who truly works to succeed is penalized by those who aren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to avoid being social parasites.

reply to post by UziXxX


lol, you pretty much just said everything i did a few posts ago....only you worded it differently...

well said, you get a star...

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


The deductibles will be the joy of life.

Especially when people start filing bankruptcies more than ever before.

marg6043
reply to post by HauntWok

 

Sadly the so call "job creators" has become a greedy bastard breed, now more than ever, thanks to capitalism gone one way and corrupted, because rather than taking their profits an investing in consumer that support their services, they rather invest in the political system and the greedy bastard politicians so they can cement with laws their rights to be greedy bastards by force.

This nation, this Republic, was built on Capitalism. That is reality.

lynxpilot
reply to post by spurgeonatorsrevenge

 

I don't think you realize that the government system is not sustainable. Sustainable seems to be a left-leaning, liberal ideology these days in terms of anything else, so why wouldn't it apply to medical care? The government in the US is supposed to be minimal and liberty is supposed to be maximized. Programs like Obamacare/ACA foster a nanny state ideology and breed a nation of indifferent and entitlement-minded minions who'd freely give up their ideals of liberty to have a totalitarian federal government provide their basic needs and subsequently encourage them to become dependent. The incentive to be independent and self-supporting is gone, and in it's aftermath anybody who truly works to succeed is penalized by those who aren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to avoid being social parasites.

"GOVERNMENT IS TOO BIG, AND IT SPENDS TOO MUCH" ~ U.S. President Ronald Wilson Reagan

SearchLightsInc
Ive noticed a lot of hatred on ATS in regards to Obamacare, A lot of those individuals sound like they've got their head's stuck up their asses. I cant believe that you guys WANT private healthcare to rule freely. Its a crazy idea!

I for one, like knowing i can visit a doctor/hospital, receive medical treatment without ever worrying about the cost. The NHS was set up to help those that "Cant pull their own weight"

Oh what an imperfect system we seem to have

The U.S. Healthcare and Medical Industry is the finest in the world, without exception. That is why many world leaders come to the U.S. for serious conditions to be treated.

The Health Insurance Industry, although imperfect, is (was) highly competitive, but arguably could use reforms in the best interests of the people and patients.

The Governemnt and the ACA , by essentially taking control over both industries, is moving directly towards the Socialization of Medecine, and there are many reasons why this is dangerous, not the least of which is the Government making policy and decisions for the Patients, or that directly affect the approved or unapproved treatments of the Patient, instead of the Doctors and Patients making the decisions for the best and most effective treatments.

rickynews

lynxpilot
reply to post by spurgeonatorsrevenge

 

I don't think you realize that the government system is not sustainable. Sustainable seems to be a left-leaning, liberal ideology these days in terms of anything else, so why wouldn't it apply to medical care? The government in the US is supposed to be minimal and liberty is supposed to be maximized. Programs like Obamacare/ACA foster a nanny state ideology and breed a nation of indifferent and entitlement-minded minions who'd freely give up their ideals of liberty to have a totalitarian federal government provide their basic needs and subsequently encourage them to become dependent. The incentive to be independent and self-supporting is gone, and in it's aftermath anybody who truly works to succeed is penalized by those who aren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to avoid being social parasites.

"GOVERNMENT IS TOO BIG, AND IT SPENDS TOO MUCH" ~ U.S. President Ronald Wilson Reagan

Meanwhile President Ronald Wilson Reagan spent more than any president before him. He also created more debt than the 30 plus presidents before him COMBINED.

It is hard to take conservatism seriously when the person you quote did the exact opposite of what you claim to want.

It must be nice to be so taken by words and a haircut.

lynxpilot
reply to post by spurgeonatorsrevenge

 

I don't think you realize that the government system is not sustainable. Sustainable seems to be a left-leaning, liberal ideology these days in terms of anything else, so why wouldn't it apply to medical care? The government in the US is supposed to be minimal and liberty is supposed to be maximized. Programs like Obamacare/ACA foster a nanny state ideology and breed a nation of indifferent and entitlement-minded minions who'd freely give up their ideals of liberty to have a totalitarian federal government provide their basic needs and subsequently encourage them to become dependent. The incentive to be independent and self-supporting is gone, and in it's aftermath anybody who truly works to succeed is penalized by those who aren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to avoid being social parasites.

Enjoy that world view, I am not even going to step in that puddle of confusion.

reply to post by spurgeonatorsrevenge


Not True. President Obama has not only spent more of Our $, he has increased the National Debt by far more than Any former U.S. President, and in fact, if you add all of the $ for all 43 U.S. Presidents in History , President Obama has run up more debt , currently at $17 Trillion and counting, than all other U.S. Presidents COMBINED. And, he still has nearly three full years remaining in his term. Just think about that for a minute.

reply to post by Daedalus


1) The member in question used a quote from a liberally-biased website to try to prove a conservatively-biased point. Seems to me a matter of basic reading comprehension.

The line quote stated clearly that the actions of the state of Florida are what prevented the poor woman from qualification for coverage under the terms of the ACA, which might (or might not) have saved her life.

(The lady might have died anyway, as it sounds like she was on her medication, but it is certain that one or both sides are certainly making political hay out of it.)

Now, whether that quote was correct or not is up for clear debate, and I'm not debating that. I've got enough muck on my boots.

2) I am deeply, soul-rendingly, mind-agonizingly offended by the term Chucklehead.

Those were my only points.

spurgeonatorsrevenge

rickynews

lynxpilot
reply to post by spurgeonatorsrevenge

 

I don't think you realize that the government system is not sustainable. Sustainable seems to be a left-leaning, liberal ideology these days in terms of anything else, so why wouldn't it apply to medical care? The government in the US is supposed to be minimal and liberty is supposed to be maximized. Programs like Obamacare/ACA foster a nanny state ideology and breed a nation of indifferent and entitlement-minded minions who'd freely give up their ideals of liberty to have a totalitarian federal government provide their basic needs and subsequently encourage them to become dependent. The incentive to be independent and self-supporting is gone, and in it's aftermath anybody who truly works to succeed is penalized by those who aren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to avoid being social parasites.

"GOVERNMENT IS TOO BIG, AND IT SPENDS TOO MUCH" ~ U.S. President Ronald Wilson Reagan

Meanwhile President Ronald Wilson Reagan spent more than any president before him. He also created more debt than the 30 plus presidents before him COMBINED.

It is hard to take conservatism seriously when the person you quote did the exact opposite of what you claim to want.

It must be nice to be so taken by words and a haircut.

I beg your pardon !!!

rickynews
reply to post by spurgeonatorsrevenge

 

Not True. President Obama has not only spent more of Our $, he has increased the National Debt by far more than Any former U.S. President, and in fact, if you add all of the $ for all 43 U.S. Presidents in History , President Obama has run up more debt , currently at $17 Trillion and counting, than all other U.S. Presidents COMBINED. And, he still has nearly three full years remaining in his term. Just think about that for a minute.

edit on 13-4-2014 by rickynews because: (no reason given)

Okay, you wanna be a fool, enjoy.

But the truth is, Reagan did exactly what you are complaining about Obama for, exactly.

Difference is, Obama doesn't claim to be a conservative, you think about that. You quote the jackass president who talked about conservatism and then borrowed more than all the presidents before him combined. Obama and Bush did not even achieve that honor.

Yet, you still quote him... Do you guys think critically ever?

reply to post by Gryphon66


I apologize for using the term chucklehead, but I stand by the rest of what I said.
The act is a failed premise, full of corruption, broken promises and empty spending.
It also FORCES something on people that don't want it. What does that sound like to you

xuenchen

spurgeonatorsrevenge

rickynews

lynxpilot
reply to post by spurgeonatorsrevenge

 

I don't think you realize that the government system is not sustainable. Sustainable seems to be a left-leaning, liberal ideology these days in terms of anything else, so why wouldn't it apply to medical care? The government in the US is supposed to be minimal and liberty is supposed to be maximized. Programs like Obamacare/ACA foster a nanny state ideology and breed a nation of indifferent and entitlement-minded minions who'd freely give up their ideals of liberty to have a totalitarian federal government provide their basic needs and subsequently encourage them to become dependent. The incentive to be independent and self-supporting is gone, and in it's aftermath anybody who truly works to succeed is penalized by those who aren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to avoid being social parasites.

Meanwhile President Ronald Wilson Reagan spent more than any president before him. He also created more debt than the 30 plus presidents before him COMBINED.

It is hard to take conservatism seriously when the person you quote did the exact opposite of what you claim to want.

It must be nice to be so taken by words and a haircut.

I beg your pardon !!!

Does not change the fact that Reagan accrued more than all the presidents before him combined.

"GOVERNMENT IS TOO BIG, AND IT SPENDS TOO MUCH (so I'll increase both and retarded people will quote my words and ignore my actions)" ~ U.S. President Ronald Wilson Reagan

"

reply to post by spurgeonatorsrevenge


Just curious...
How many times was the debt ceiling raised during the Regan Administration? Obama Administration?
How many times was the govt shutdown during the Regan Administration? Obama Administration?