How do we get rid of ObamaCare?

reply to post by beezzer

Then why Obamacare when most were happy before hand?

Most were happy?!

Most?!

Do you really believe that?

Were the 50 million un-insured happy? Were people with pre-existing conditions ( which is everybody once you're 25+) happy?

Come on now. You're being silly.

Healthcare reform has been an issue attempted for the last 30 years.

Considering ACA is almost WORD FOR WORD the same bloody plan that the GOP put forth in the 90's, I'd expect more people to be happy about it, on both sides.

~Tenth

~Tenth

reply to post by mugger


Because the insurance industry has an organized corporate lobby in D.C.

The people, well ... we can't even agree on what we want.

reply to post by AnteBellum


It's ok, don't worry, someday the GOP is going to get back into power and the white house, and when that day comes, the poor will die the slow painful death they so desperately deserve by virtue of being poor. I'm sure that the GOP can't wait to get back in charge so those filthy bastard poor people can starve to death, die of preventable diseases, and or go where all poor people belong, prison.

beezzer
reply to post by AboveBoard

 

Prior to Obamacare, there were two options to fix our healthcare industry.

1. Reduce cost so that everyone could afford healthcare.


2. Find a way for everyone to pay for the high costs of healthcare.


It is obvious that the government took option 2.

Option 1 would have left healthcare up to the individual.

While option 2 removes that individual decision and places control into the hands of government.

We need to look at ways to satisfy the dilemma of high costs to solve problems that people like you and others face.

Thank you for acknowledging the need to solve problems - it is genuine. Pre-ACA was no picnic.
Yes, there are also problems that need to be solved coming about by shifting into a new way to handle health insurance - I don't deny there is a mixed outcome (some of which is based on employer reaction to the law).

As to items 1 & 2 listed above, I would say there is a third way, which is BOTH. Reduce health costs AND have as wide a base as possible in the payment pool. That is what the ACA is attempting to do, based on its own objectives but it is too soon to say if that will work out.

As to #1 being a sole-fix, how would it be possible to reduce costs AND eliminate pre-existing conditions from insurance? On the insurance side, that is still a losing proposition without a larger pool of people paying in to draw from.

Reducing the costs on the supply-side (pharma, hospitals, manufacturers, doctors, etc.) would require government regulation of capitalism on the corporate side - I don't see this passing due to money-equals-speech politics. Are you suggesting that shareholders pay for healthcare costs by lowering profits? Heaven's forfend! (sarcasm)

Here is a good article on that "reduced costs" topic from Factcheck with multiple sources discussed.

Factcheck

thanks for the reply...

- AboveBoard

reply to post by tothetenthpower


" Were the 50 million un-insured happy? Were people with pre-existing conditions ( which is everybody once you're 25+) happy? :


I would have to say YES . Their Pocketbooks were Happy , Little Johnny got his New College Fund just as Daddy Promised . Now , the Kid's younger brother will just have to get a Job at McDonalds for the Rest of his Freakin' Life . You HAPPY Now ?..........

Zanti Misfit
reply to post by AnteBellum

 

It won't go away Until at least 2017 . With a New President and more People Friendly Reps. and Senators , it could be Repealed .

Do you honestly think that any program that benefits insurance companies, big pharma, corporate hospitals for profit and boutique physicians will be repealed?..........lol!

Who exactly do you think will put up the campaign contributions for the new president and the people friendly reps and senators?

Politicians are a byproduct of the corporate oligarchy and when the corporatist say jump; the politicians say...."how high"

I'm afraid putting any faith whatsoever in the dead electoral process is foolhardy.

reply to post by Zanti Misfit

I would have to say YES . Their Pocketbooks were Happy , Little Johnny got his New College Fund just as Daddy Promised . Now , the Kid's younger brother will just have to get a Job at McDonalds for the Rest of his Freakin' Life . You HAPPY Now ?..........

Man, I love these.



Yes, it's people whose fathers can afford to pay for their college who are really going to hurt?!

Laughable.

Are you just saying random words?

~Tenth

AllInMyHead
I honestly don't get people. I have worked in and around the insurance industry for most of my adult life. I KNOW the vile things that some of them would, could and DID do for the sake of "profit". Yes, a lot of people "lost" their health plans, however, most of those plans didn't meet the requirements and had to be replaced with a plan that met the requirements of Obamacare. As a financial councilor at a various hospitals throughout my career I have had to tell people "Sorry, no more chemo. Your insurance says they won't cover any more" or "Sorry your baby was born with a hole in its heart, your insurance says they will not cover anything, its pre-existing", or people who were just mysteriously dropped for no reason whatsoever because they fell into some "category" the insurance didn't like. Yet no one CARED. As long as people had THEIR coverage they could have cared less about anyone else...until their turn came around.

EXACTLY!! THIS is what I've been trying to say! We HAD NO FREEDOM before the ACA. This was my personal reality and if folks think repealing/eliminating the ACA is the right thing to do because "freedom" then I guess they must not have experienced the failures of how it used to be.

And you are dead on with the benefits, too, AllInMyHead, which deserve repeating:

AllInMyHead
So NOW, insurance must do the following:

cover people with pre-existing health conditions
Help you understand the coverage you’re getting
Be held accountable for rate increases
They are prohibited arbitrarily canceling your health insurance just because you get sick
Protects your choice of doctors
Covers young adults under 26
Provides free preventive care as part of your plan.
Ends lifetime and yearly dollar limits on coverage of essential health benefits

ObamaCare helps to curb the growth in healthcare spending. (I have seen this for myself)

Additional benefits your plan is required to provide now include:

Free aspirin (to prevent heart disease in older men and women); as prescribed by your doc.
Screening for depression
Flu shots
STD counseling (for people at high risk)
Help quitting smoking, such as tobacco use screenings
Folic acid supplements (for pregnant women)
Breastfeeding support and supplies, like breast pumps
Domestic violence screening and counseling (for women)
Substance abuse counseling
Services to help overcome long-term disabilities and chronic conditions

Even with all of the above insurance companies are STILL making money hand over fist. Huge profits.

So I see a lot of bitching and moaning about how awful Obamacare is and how it is going to ruin our country. What from the list above don't you agree with any WHY? And what is your alternative exactly? Should we just continue to let the insurances companies run wild?

edit on 8-4-2014 by AllInMyHead because: (no reason given)

Yes- they are still making huge profits and will continue to do so. I feel badly for people who are struggling with the new law and circumstances around it, with companies choosing profits over people, and "sticker shock" for some folks is a reality.

I guess its the fact that it was SO INCREDIBLY BAD before.

peace,
AB

reply to post by tothetenthpower



Yes . One Son goes to College because Daddy Works Hard . With Obamacare , no matter How Hard Daddy Works , Little Johnny's Brother is out of Luck , Daddy just can't Afford it . Simple Economic Logic . To " Over " your Head Maybe to Comprehend ?

reply to post by Zanti Misfit


So it's the governments' fault that your income lacks in the area that allows you to provide a college education for your kids?

Sorry, but no.

Me and my husband raised 4 children, one of which that is in University, the other is starting next year.

I can afford to pay for both their educations, IN FULL.

I'm not doing it tho, cause what lesson would that teach them about hard work and earning something for themselves?

People really need to stop blaming the Gov for their lack of success in life.

~Tenth

50 million "un-happy" ? Perhaps.

But many uninsured were in fact happy w/o the policies.

And I would say of the 260 million or so who ARE/WERE insured, most probably Were happy.

Now I don't know how many are "Happy".

Only way that romneycare is repealed is if americans stop voting for the bought out parties and elect a guy like ron paul, so sorry guys but your stuck with it.

Easy way to get rid of it

Vote republican like Chris Christie

Or Rand Paul if he runs

It'd get cut up quickly, if not by congress then by Executive Order which Obama uses to bypass congress

tothetenthpower
Healthcare in other countries hasn't led to people being any less 'free' or more oppressed by the their governments.

Other countries weren't heralded as the pinnacle of freedom and opportunity that America used to be upheld as. The less a man has, the less he stands to lose... true for money and freedoms.

Furthermore, how is it not a form of slavery to force earners to pay for non-earners? If that's the definition of "free", feel "free" to keep it.

tothetenthpower
reply to post by Zanti Misfit

 

So it's the governments' fault that your income lacks in the area that allows you to provide a college education for your kids?

It's the taxpayer's responsibility that someone's income lacks in the area that allows them to:
feed their children
pay for their own healthcare
house themselves
pay for their own cell phone
pay for their own job training


Fun fact about hypothetical quandries, they can be applied against your arguments just as easily as they can be used to support your argument.

reply to post by tothetenthpower



"So it's the governments' fault that your income lacks in the area that allows you to provide a college education for your kids? "


Yes , absolutely . It's because of TAXES . You know , Fed TAX , State TAX ,......etc.......Do you Realize how Many Hours of Work a Week is Needed Just to Pay your Taxes no matter what your Income is ? Answer , To Many .

burdman30ott6

tothetenthpower
Healthcare in other countries hasn't led to people being any less 'free' or more oppressed by the their governments.

Other countries weren't heralded as the pinnacle of freedom and opportunity that America used to be upheld as. The less a man has, the less he stands to lose... true for money and freedoms.

Furthermore, how is it not a form of slavery to force earners to pay for non-earners? If that's the definition of "free", feel "free" to keep it.

What? is your argument about American Exceptionalism

As for the last quote, there's no getting around that it's the 21st century and were gonna have to take care of other people.

We created this environment either by apathy or direct involvement in the terrible place this has become.

I'm Canadian. I feel GOOD about myself that my tax dollars saved some poor family from going bankrupt when their kid breaks an arm.

~Tenth

reply to post by Zanti Misfit


It's not about the crappy company you work for that would rather pay you a pittance instead of a living wage?

Cause we all know they don't pay taxes.

Why aren't you mad at them?

~Tnth

reply to post by tothetenthpower


" I'm Canadian. I feel GOOD about myself that my tax dollars saved some poor family from going bankrupt when their kid breaks an arm. "



I am an American , I am also a Capitalist . My Present Socialist Bent Government Discourages me from taking care of my immediate Family by earning a Decent Living through the Fruits of my Labor with Excessive Taxation . See , I do not Like someone taking To Many of my Fruits , I Earned them , get it ? I think there is a piece of Paper Somewhere that says I have a " Right " to feel that way . Those Fruits could go to Creating more Wealth which in turn could support one of my other fellow Americans Family's through Job Creation in my line of Work . What Work does the Government do ? How does the Government Create Wealth ? Does the Government Create Jobs that enable it's Citizens to Support themselves Outside of Government Employment ? Give a Man some Bread , and he will Eat for a Day . Give a Man a Job , and he will Feed himself for the rest of his Life . Nuff said .........

reply to post by AnteBellum


We create something that makes it obsolete. Otherwise get on the bus!