How do we get rid of ObamaCare?

How about this for a trade.

You all don't pay ObamaCare, it gets scrapped, BUT in return, you pay the health care costs of all the people you bombed and killed over the past decades.

Suddenly that makes ObamaCare a better propasition no?

the only true way to make healthcare affordable is to address the main reasons. greed. on the part of all industries that have a hand in health care. and stop the games that insurance companies and doctors play.

don't get me wrong, i understand for profit. but the cost that companies charge for their goods and services is the reason for the high cost of healthcare. which obamacare does nothing to address this. except to deny procedures through the death panels.

just for a example, my mother and father are covered by a plan where my mother works, which by the way is at a local hospital her company contracts to. i will also say that the hospital is one of the ones owned by the chain in the news lately. last year she had to go the er and admitted to the hospital for a procedure. now the hospital and the doctors affiliated with it to it know that this insurance has to be approved before anything is done. they can't say they didn't or don't, because my father has had numerous test,labs, and x rays done over the last few years there under the same policy.

any way they moved her into the hospital and the very next day did the procedure. no approval first. the bill for er, the procedure,meds, 4 days in a hospital room,doctors and all other things they thought they could bill for, came to about 145,000 dollars.

the insurance company refused to pay for it because they didn't get approval first. why, because there is a simpler way to take care of the problem my mother had. it was through the use of medication. she had or they say she had kidney stones, and had to be broken up.

they didn't get approval first because they thought the insurance company would go ahead and pay, they didn't count on them refusing
it, about a dozens times. the reason why they wouldn't pay is that, they should have tried the medication first then moved on to other treatments. sad thing is my mother thinks it was just a kidney infection and not stones, she said that she never passed any broken pieces at the hospital or at home.

after all that back and forth, and for other reasons i'm not all that clear about the hospital wound up only charging for what the amount of the er vist would have been, about 1800.00 dollars total.

if it wasn't for the trouble that the chain was in for unnecessarily admitting patients, there is no doubt that the hospital would have expected my mother to pay the full amount.

kosmicjack
It's so curious to me that people are more pissed at Obama for trying to get everyone healthcare than are pissed with corporations for slashing benefits, cutting hours for eligibility or simply outsourcing jobs overseas to increase their profit margins.

I'm not saying the ACA is the answer but it's damn sure not what's REALLY the problem in this country.

1.) Obama did not give me health care. He forced me to buy health insurance which is not actually the care, itself. Stop conflating the two.

2.) Prior to this, I was a responsible American adult and made arrangements to purchase my own health insurance. This will likely, shortly be deemed inadequate by HHS, not because it actually is, but because I'm not paying enough for it. This is so they can force me to purchase one of their mandated policies with less coverage for more money in order to subsidize and bunch of people who cannot afford these same policies.

3.) My employer and I had a prior arrangement whereby I paid for part of my insurance and my employer paid for the rest. I had good hours and good pay, but since HHS needs to decouple health insurance from work to destroy this arrangement so that it is easier to force more people like me into purchasing their crappy mandated policies rather than going with the old, more cost effective system, they have to punish my employer enough fiscally to make them react in ways like cutting benefits, cutting hours, cutting employees, etc., I am merely collateral damage in this process.

So, yes, I am mad at Obama and the writers of Obamacare whose rules and regulations necessitate this chaos. These reactions are the consequences of their meddling. It is insane to think that you can cause such an enormous disruption to the system and not have an enormous amount of consequences, intended and unintended. Nothing happens in a vacuum.

reply to post by beezzer


I am going to have to disagree that the Patriot Act and TSA, etc. were created with the best intentions. I think the intentions were exactly the same then as they are now. It's just that they are more obvious now.

reply to post by abeverage
(partial quote)

The Problem how do we get people to like Universal Health Care? First make it a failure by the Liberal party keep it going long enough to see people get frustrated and angry but limited by options.

It's not up to "The People".

It's up to the "People in power" IMO.

And as to Universal HC, I often wonder why the Democrats in power in 2009 who had the votes in Congress plus the White House didn't actually pass a "Universal" law ?

There was a bill for that in 2009 (Universal Medicare)
United States National Health Care Act

I never get a clear answer on that.

But I remember reading an article somewhere that had the insurance companies becoming contractors to manage the system instead of selling and paying as it is now. And there are many contractors managing MediCare and MediCaid now in each State.

The money (for the insurance companies) was just about the same as I remember.

Perhaps it's true because we don't really know for sure how much the insurance companies will actually profit because of that 80% - 85% payout rule that limits profit or they will have to rebate the premium money back.

So maybe Democrats (in power) don't really want universal healthcare?

ScientiaFortisDefendit
reply to post by beezzer

 

I am going to have to disagree that the Patriot Act and TSA, etc. were created with the best intentions. I think the intentions were exactly the same then as they are now. It's just that they are more obvious now.

That's a new one, "Best intentions" hmm.

Suddenly I feel all liberated.

abeverage
Hmmm

ObamaCare was designed to fail...

The Problem is the general public especially those on the Right are to inept to see this. It is the Problem, solution scenario again.

The Problem how do we get people to like Universal Health Care? First make it a failure by the Liberal party keep it going long enough to see people get frustrated and angry but limited by options.

Next election cycle the Right steps in and PRESTO a fixed system much like RomneyCare where the upper class benefits but the lower class is quelled! Whaaahooo! Way to go!

Wait did we really want this? Well it works for Europe so how do we pull those stubborn Americans in on it? See above...


All part of being in a Spectator Democracy!

edit on 8-4-2014 by abeverage because: (no reason given)

you are correct sir. harry reid even said so.

Reid said he thinks the country has to “work our way past” insurance-based health care during a Friday night appearance on Vegas PBS’ program “Nevada Week in Review.” “What we’ve done with Obamacare is have a step in the right direction, but we’re far from having something that’s going to work forever,” Reid said. When then asked by panelist Steve Sebelius whether he meant ultimately the country would have to have a health care system that abandoned insurance as the means of accessing it, Reid said: “Yes, yes. Absolutely, yes.”
Sen. Harry Reid: Obamacare 'Absolutely' A Step Toward A Single-Payer System

straight from one of the horses mouth.

from the same article.

Reid noted that he and other progressives fought hard for a “public option” in the exchanges as a Trojan horse for single-payer, but Democrats didn’t have 60 votes in the Senate to achieve it:

reply to post by beezzer


The answer is clear. ACA was put forth based on the sheer volume of people uninsured, which has steadily increased along with the rise of globalization and corporate profits.

Profits are at an all time high while wages and benefits are horribly low.

Blaming Obama and the ACA is like blaming the Good Samaritan who stopped to help after some (corporate) criminals stole your wallet, kicked your ass and left you for dead.

I don't mean to be rude, but in this day and age, to have those without health care by their own countries governments, is simply, MIND BOGGLING to us in other parts of the world.

A lot of us tend to think of countries with people and no healthcare are 3rd world countries, in indeed many see America as a developing world country in some areas, health care accessibility for one.

reply to post by AboveBoard

I don't remember getting to choose whether or not we went to war...???

When was the last draft? I think that is what beezer is getting at.
Men and women are not getting penalized for not joining the military.

I am glad that this healthcare was able to help you out in your particular situation, but rather it is due to lack of people telling them, I hear FAR more horror stories then any one saying there healthcare was better now then before.
Obamacare just put more money into big pharm and private insurance already.
What need is control over what these companies can charge for there services, stop letting them drive up the price of everything medical, which in turn forces people to get insurance so that they will chip in.
It was out of control insurances that lead to needing something like this in the first place, and who benefits the most from it????

reply to post by kosmicjack


Wow.. this is a ripe bit of malarkey. Whenever someone says something is "clear", it most likely isn't.

reply to post by Sremmos80


Oh I agree that there is corruption and greed in the for-profit health/pharma industry. No question there.

I have actually heard more GOOD stories. But then I hang around people who have similar situations.

So we can totally agree that the corporate side of the issue needs to be dealt with in regards to costs. They aren't going to give up the money out of the goodness of their hearts.

(I still didn't get to choose whether or not we went to war...and we are all penalized by having an unfunded and extremely costly war on our books that is part of our debt - we just don't see it as a line-item in our taxes...)

peace,
AB

Sremmos80
reply to post by AboveBoard

What need is control over what these companies can charge for there services, stop letting them drive up the price of everything medical, which in turn forces people to get insurance so that they will chip in.
It was out of control insurances that lead to needing something like this in the first place, and who benefits the most from it????

That's commie talk!!! It's big business that gives us jobs and looks after us in all their glorious wisdom. All praise to Sam Walton for showing us the way to Salvation and a corporate pure America.

I'm ecstatic that my tax dollars can be spent to kill brown people that want my freedom and my oil.

We need a sarcasm emoticon......is this it............maybe this one

reply to post by Darkblade71


Companies have been doing that for years. My own company has done it 3 times in 15 years, twice well before Obama, and each time screwing over those who were grandfathered in the last time and assured their jobs and hours were secure.

It's what happens when they try to squeeze profits out of an already squeezed business model..they do it to appease shareholders and Wall St...not a thing to do with ACA, but at least now they have a convenient scapegoat to disguise their unchecked, unapologetic greed.

reply to post by kosmicjack


Well they can call it whatever they want.
Bottom line....

My hours were cut due to ACA.

I love how people say blame the corporation for not offering insurance...
well, they don't have to, or didn't and now because they do if I work more than 29 hours...
I can't work more than 29 hours.

I've been at this job for almost 3 years, and everything has been fantastic, until now.

Plain and simple, I just got hurt really bad by the ACA, and there is no way around it. So I will not comply with the ACA, and I will get my ass out and vote to show my disapproval come election time.

reply to post by Darkblade71


Isn't that more the fault of your employer for passing on the costs of something like that to you? As opposed to offering company insurance?

~Tenth

olaru12

Sremmos80
reply to post by AboveBoard

What need is control over what these companies can charge for there services, stop letting them drive up the price of everything medical, which in turn forces people to get insurance so that they will chip in.
It was out of control insurances that lead to needing something like this in the first place, and who benefits the most from it????

That's commie talk!!! It's big business that gives us jobs and looks after us in all their glorious wisdom. All praise to Sam Walton for showing us the way to Salvation and a pure America.

I'm ecstatic that my tax dollars can be spent to kill brown people that want my freedom and my oil.

We need a sarcasm emoticon......is this it........

....maybe this one

edit on 8-4-2014 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)

lol oh man we do need a sarcasm button!
I was son confused until i read the last part, which I almost didn't read cause I was going to rage respond to being called a commie

reply to post by tothetenthpower


No, it is the fault of the Government for FORCING something on people and companies who don't want or need it.
It is an unconstitutional move, and one that will fail in the long run.

Like I said though, the bottom line is I am taking a cut in pay due to the ACA, not my employer who is just doing what the US government is forcing them to do to in order keep their profits.
It is a flawed system, and it might help a few, but it is hurting a lot of us too.

I am not a car, and it is not a privilege to live here.

It is my right.

Is healthcare my right?
Sure, if I want it, but I won't have it forced on me with threats of fines.
I would rather pay the 95 bucks.

You can twist it however you want, before the ACA I was making enough to save money and plan some goals for myself, and now....

I will have to find a 2nd job, when there aren't any, and I shouldn't have to, in order to complete my goals in life.

yep, it is the ACA's fault, no matter how you spin it.

reply to post by hounddoghowlie

Reid noted that he and other progressives fought hard for a “public option” in the exchanges as a Trojan horse for single-payer, but Democrats didn’t have 60 votes in the Senate to achieve it:

I have to say I think Harry's little act was a hoodwink.

They had to make it look like they were *oh-so dejected* and hurt when they couldn't get that public option.

IMO, they passed the law they wanted to pass.

Harry is famous for his acting.

Now they can *own-up* to owning it.

They've created more problems than they solved. All part of the plan Me thinks.

They always find ways to profit from created chaos.

reply to post by Darkblade71

No, it is the fault of the Government for FORCING something on people and companies who don't want or need it.

It's doing what every other industrialized and successful nation has done, which is hold companies accountable for the welfare of their employees in some form or another.

I may not agree with ACA as is, but I certainly won't be blaming Obama for the greed of companies who are too cheap to provide what should already be VERY common in today's workplace.

Like I said though, the bottom line, is I am taking a cut in pay due to the ACA, not my employer who is just doing what the US government is forcing them to do to in order keep their profits.

Nope, your employer is to blame because YOU are expendable in their eyes and that only proves it. It's nice that you would cover for them like that, but at the end of the day corporate greed is what caused ACA to be necessary in the first place.

I will have to find a 2nd job, when there aren't any, and I shouldn't have to, in order to complete my goals in life.

Be angry at who you want,but your crappy employer made an executive decision to screw you, instead of being a responsible and note worthy environment to work in.

~Tenth