How do we get rid of ObamaCare?

Daughter2
But you are wrong thinking people are going to go back to the days of letting people die if they couldn't afford a doctor.

This wasn't happening before the ACA anyway. Nobody is suggesting a diversion all the way back to the 1930s.

burdman30ott6

As a responsible individual, I take a lot of pride in providing for my own, for my family. This is where the majority of my issue comes from. I have yet to see one single person present a rational, natural explanation for how it is not offensive to mandate that the responsible tax payers in America also accept responsibility for individuals outside their own family. Without fail it either devolves into insults, rests on some cockamamie nonsense like "Do you want riots and rampant theft?" or ends up being entirely an argument of personal conjecture and goading into groupthink or patriotic bullcrap: "I am happy to pay my share*** in taxes to help others, why aren't you?"

Let me try.....

1. Systems that failed to provide for the poor through taxes have never raised enough through charities to prevent people - the elderly and children included- from starving to death. Prior to taxes millions died.

2. I want to live in a society that I know if I ever become poor I will not die of starvation of lack of medical care. Just like I may never need police or fire services, I live better knowing it's there. You may never file an insurance claim but that doesn't mean you don't receive a benefit.

3. Providing for the poor helps provide a stable and healthy workforce for employers.

4. Though there are certain wealthy individuals who have worked for their money many have obtained it by illegal or unethical means.

5. I (and it seems like many others) think it's unethical for wealthy individuals not to help provide for the needy. And I also think there should be a law to correct this unethical behavior.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


Yes, before ACA people did die.

Unless it's an urgent case, doctor's are under no obligation to help you. So if you had cancer or a long-tern condition, you were out of luck.

reply to post by buddha


talk like that will get you put on a watch list, and men wearing black tactical gear will be knocking your door down shortly!

Daughter2
reply to post by burdman30ott6

 

Yes, before ACA people did die.

Unless it's an urgent case, doctor's are under no obligation to help you. So if you had cancer or a long-tern condition, you were out of luck.

And now because of the new plans, cancer patients are going to die because their "new and improved plan" isn't "improved" at all.
Here's a link to just one story with a link to others embedded in the story.
www.lifenews.com...

Under the title “Obamacare and My Mother’s Cancer Medicine”, Stephen Blackwood chronicled his mother’s struggle to find coverage in a post-Obamacare environment. He wrote, “The news was dumbfounding. She used to have a policy that covered the drug that kept her alive. Now she’s on her own.” In 2005, at age 49, his mother was diagnosed with a rare cancer. The cancer is terminal. However, it typically responds to a drug called Sandostatin that slows growth and reduces symptoms. Blackwood wrote “And then in November, along with millions of other Americans, she lost her health insurance. She’d had a Blue Cross/Blue Shield plan for nearly 20 years. It was expensive, but given that it covered her very expensive treatment, it was a terrific plan. It gave her access to any specialist or surgeon, and to the Sandostatin and other medications that were keeping her alive. “And then, because our lawmakers and president thought they could do better, she had nothing. Her old plan, now considered illegal under the new health law, had been canceled.” His mother, a former medical-office manager, no stranger to navigating insurers, was unable to use the Virginia exchange, and called around to individual exchange insurers. After she spent days and weeks of searching, no one could tell her for sure if her drug was covered. Finally a representative for one plan, Humana, told her that her drug would probably be covered. Unbelievably, this was the closest to a firm commitment she could get from any insurer. According to Blackwood, “With no other options, she bought the plan and was approved on Nov. 22. …Then on Feb. 12, just before going into (yet another) surgery, she was informed by Humana that it would not, in fact, cover her Sandostatin, or other cancer-related medications. The cost of the Sandostatin alone, since Jan. 1, was $14,000, and the company was refusing to pay.

In talking with a relative of mine just today I was told that she has searched for health insurance that she can afford for the past 6 months in what time she has between working a full time job and a couple of part-time jobs. So far the best she can come up with is one that costs her $267/month and has a $3000 deductible before they pay one red cent on anything. No health savings account, no chance of just having a co-pay like the policy she had before this scheme hit. She must buy a plan with maternity insurance even though she took measures years ago to avoid ever needing such coverage---because it made her insurance significantly cheaper.
If she had an extra $6000 sitting somewhere, she wouldn't be working 3 jobs.

Since she's healthy, she plans to do what I've done. Refuse to send the insurance company a dime and pay the fine when tax time rolls around.

If ACA hadn't passed, her employer would still be paying half of her $178/month premium. Instead he's giving his employees an extra $200/month and has canceled the group plan because otherwise he would have had to go out of business. He's not some rich corporate owner. He's a businessman who provides jobs for about 60 people, most of them significantly above minimum wage. He also donates a lot of money/services to the community. So despite what I keep seeing here about "the wealthy business owners", there are a lot of business people who are struggling to keep those businesses going and the jobs they create---and the health insurance scheme is one of the biggest factors in their struggles.
But if you've never run a business, as the clown inhabiting the White House never has, you haven't a clue as to how businesses really work. If you get your info from some mainstream leftist media, I pity you because you are left looking really ignorant in your quest to be "humane" and "civilized." Life ain't fair and nothing you or I or any legislator can do will make it so.

How do we get rid of Obamacare? We don't. It's already law and much like any such legislation, it will transition over time and become a fundamental facet of society.

We continue to progress, albeit slowly, and reach consensus that injustice should be eliminated. The very legislation which aims to provide everyone with something as abominable as healthcare will soon be viewed, like other social programs with the objective of providing social support and minimizing unfairness, as a critical right that no politician will dare to try to eliminate. Similar to racial discrimination, age discrimination, gay rights, child welfare programs, workers' compensation, etc., people will grow to recognize this program is also entirely necessary and opposition will disintegrate over time.

The rough roll-out, partisan in-the-sand-line-drawing and fears of the brown man certainly are/were obstacles, but twenty years from now, it will all be forgotten as the program will have been fine-tuned and integrated into society. Plus, the opposition will have moved on to whatever other bogeyman has been established as a target for disproportionate fear mongering and apocalyptic hand-wringing.

reply to post by Hadrian


Many points to consider for sure.

But left out is the massive debt complex this creates and amplifies.

Similar to the massive debt debacles like student loans and mortgages.

Now we will have even more people going into bankruptcy territory because they actually have insurance now.

The deductibles will kill millions.

Especially ones who before could go to a hospital and eventually sidestep the bills.

Now those who have insurance and can't cough up the initial deductible amounts yearly will amass debt beyond belief, all due & collectible now.

very dangerous agenda indeed.

Hadrian
How do we get rid of Obamacare? We don't. It's already law and much like any such legislation, it will transition over time and become a fundamental facet of society.

We continue to progress, albeit slowly, and reach consensus that injustice should be eliminated. The very legislation which aims to provide everyone with something as abominable as healthcare will soon be viewed, like other social programs with the objective of providing social support and minimizing unfairness,

Can I ask you...what exactly is being provided here?

I am paying, through my employer, almost 3 times more than I was 5 years ago for less coverage value. Is that what is being provided? Increases that make a rational 3% per annum increase pale by factors of hundreds?

Let me ask you one more question. Why did you choose to use the word "unfairness"? I work up to 80 hours a week to build a future for my family. I miss out on time with them due to work. Is it unfair? How unfair is it if i am asked to pay more for the same thing, when I am being asked to may more only because I may make a little more? Is it fair to my son, who may miss time with me, that I yield less fruit from my labors because of someone else's perception of "fair"?

You move!

You suck it up butter cup!

You make a petition!

You create a legal entity which is opposing that way of doing things!

You might want to have a lot of money!

You find doctors that are willing to support your network of what that legal entity represents!

What do you want instead of Obamacare?

reply to post by bitsforbytes

What do you want instead of Obamacare?

I want....

NObama.Care

I agree, there are some relative conversations on this topic if you search for a thread called " No, Mr. President The debate is not over"
I summed it up for you over there though, and have outlined the hazards ahead for anyone or candidate that thinks he will reverse it, the damage has already been done and it is law, when you go fishing once the hook is set properly it is almost impossible for the fish to escape, I think the hook was set rather nicely, only way for it to get free is to rip its lips off or tear the gills out, not a good ending, no matter how much that fish wants to fight now it's going to get fried and served up.

reply to post by xuenchen


Go back to the years of Abe? Or more during the Jefferson era? I live in Canada and here we pay for a big chunk of what makes you unhealthy. Some procedures don't make the cut, those you pay for.

I pay for people to smoke, drink, substance abuse, driving under the influence, f^uck their life away, and they still get help. Those people keep this system in need of money all the time. Yet it makes people work; nurses, doctors, paramedic, surgeons. We call this socialism.

On the flip side, we can still gain capital by scraping along in a 1 1/2 and save to make it a bit further.Capitalism is part of the private sector which can interact with the public. However the interaction is done through tenders.

So much done and so much to come.

reply to post by bitsforbytes


obozocare was put in place to fail....

The destruction of the USA for the new world order - yes, many people will die until the americans wake up and trash these treasonous idiots from our world.

Meanwhile, there will arise a black market for healthcare -

reply to post by bitsforbytes


Apparently you are inside some kind of pipe dream.

NObama.Care has nothing in common with the Canadian systems.

Nor has it anything in common with Lincoln or Jefferson.