Scientists Say Shroud of Turin Shows Jesus Was Crucified in 'Very Painful' Position

reply to post by tinner07


Exactly. Depictions of Jesus defying gravity in a T-shape were probably more a gesture of kindness toward his memory, rather than depicting him realistically slumped over, dangling from nails.

reply to post by Aleister

3 So Peter went out with the other disciple, and they were going toward the tomb. 4 Both of them were running together, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. 5 And stooping to look in, he saw the linen cloths lying there, but he did not go in. 6 Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb. He saw the linen cloths lying there, 7 and the face cloth, which had been on Jesus' head, not lying with the linen cloths but folded up in a place by itself. 8 Then the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went in, and he saw and believed;

What? No "And Peter beheld the image of the face of Jesus was still on the face cloth!"

According to the Bible, Jesus was buried with a face cloth, which was supposedly seen in a separate place than the other burial cloths (plural).

The shroud of Turin just doesn't fit with the narrative.

reply to post by DeadSeraph

The authenticity of the shroud of Turin has no bearing on my faith whatsoever.

And yet, the title of your thread: Scientists Say Shroud of Turin Shows Jesus Was Crucified in 'Very Painful' Position

So what's that all about, if not to emphasize the brutality of Roman crucifixion and to fixate on the barbaric method of the torture and the muse about the pain that Jesus felt while dying?

windword
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

The authenticity of the shroud of Turin has no bearing on my faith whatsoever.

And yet, the title of your thread: Scientists Say Shroud of Turin Shows Jesus Was Crucified in 'Very Painful' Position

So what's that all about, if not to emphasize the brutality of Roman crucifixion and to fixate on the barbaric method of the torture and the muse about the pain that Jesus felt while dying?

It's the title of the article...

reply to post by DeadSeraph


This thread is in Conspiracies in Religion, not Breaking News, where you must use the breaking news article title in the title of your thread. The emphasis in this thread is about Christians focusing on the method of torture and the amount of pain that we can imagine that Jesus felt while dying. Not on whether the Shroud is real.

This isn't new news, it's old news revitalized for the Easter Season when Christians love to fantasize about the pain and barbaric methods by which Jesus could possibly have been tortured and killed by the Romans, and finding proof for their fascination. That's what you're capitalizing on in this thread and its title.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


The earliest use of the cross to represent christianity came centurys after christ's crucifixion as it had been seen as an insult by christians prior to this and they used the fish as the symbol for christ.
It was the X rather then the T used by emperor constantine which brought the cruciform into use as a symbol of christianity and of note is the X would indicate a splayed crucifixion but it was used centurys later.
This is quite possible as also is the economical use of the iron nails, two rather then three or four would seem logical to people whom were crucifying on a regular basis and had to forge each nail individually.

Anyway for me the shroud is real but good thread.
S+F

I don't think any of the reenactors scourge their skin until it's falling off

reply to post by Aleister


You would be completely and totally wrong about that....follow the links if you have a strong stomach.


20 Good Friday Devotees Crucified In Philippines During Bloody Re-Enactment: ‘I Do This For My God’

HERE

Catholic Church should stop crucifixion, self-flagellation

HERE

Crucifixion and self-flagellation acts on Good Friday in Philippines

HERE

I'll leave it at that as I trust these disgusting pictures of people flaying their own skin off their backs and subjecting themselves to be nailed to a cross should make my point.

Never underestimate the madness in religious faith.

So let me get this straight...does this mean I have to wear a pole around my neck?
Would this pole medallion still protect me from vampires? Or should I keep a few garlic cloves in my satchel?

reply to post by windword

This thread is in Conspiracies in Religion, not Breaking News, where you must use the breaking news article title in the title of your thread.

I don't really care. I copied and pasted the title of the article for the title of the thread. Big deal.

The emphasis in this thread is about Christians focusing on the method of torture and the amount of pain that we can imagine that Jesus felt while dying. Not on whether the Shroud is real.

No, it's not. You're the only one going there. The emphasis in the OP is on an article which reports on a study that focused on the blood marks around the arms shown in the shroud, and how that study determined the person depicted on the shroud would have been crucified with their arms/body in a Y shape instead of a T.

This isn't new news, it's old news revitalized for the Easter Season when Christians love to fantasize about the pain and barbaric methods by which Jesus could possibly have been tortured and killed by the Romans, and finding proof for their fascination.

Yes it is new news, since the study was done recently and the findings were announced in february at the 66th Annual Meeting of the www.aafs.org.... Your attempts to paint this thread as something it's not are not welcome. We get it, you don't like Christians. The thread stands on it's own merit as an interesting piece of information related to the shroud, whether you think it's fake or not. Even if it is fake, it would be a remarkable piece of work and this latest study sheds some interesting light on the subject either way.

Are you done now?

reply to post by DeadSeraph


Easter time religious hype!

My reply to you, and my observation of how Christians love to talk about the ways and means of the barbaric torture and the horror of the supposed crucifixion of Jesus, at Easter time like clockwork every year, was promted by your post, here: www.abovetopsecret.com..., in which you detail the scourging and methods of the crucifixion, in the Easter time predictability of these kinds of threads.

Christianity has a strange fascination with torture and death, I don't get the appeal, and frankly find it disturbing.



These same treatments have been inflicted on all walks of people for centuries, even worse, and still are in some places. So I'm not sure why this particular crucifixion should be examined so meticulously every year, or why "GOD" should be immune of that thing he/it/she created and is responsible for in the first place. And this Shroud hoax is just a timely excuse to relish in his death, this time of year, again.

BTW, Pagan scholars and skeptics, including myself, have been telling you guys that Jesus most probably was NOT crucified on a cross, that the cross is a sacred pagan symbol that was used in most recent ancient times for Julius Caesar, and most probably copied by Christians later to usurp the pop culture of the time, and to counter the Cult of Caesar, his supposed deification at the advent of the appearance of his comet, on the anniversary of birth. (Star of Bethlehem anyone?). The Roman's would NOT have used the cross imagery to crucify their criminals.


Wax Effigy of Julius Caesar after his assassination (Martyrdon)


Woodblock image of the Effigy of Julius Caesar


Coin Honoring the death and funeral of Julius Caesar. The coin says "Clemency", as Caesar was "prayed" to for forgiveness, after his deification.


This evidence makes believing the mythology of the crucifixion that much harder to believe. let alone that this piece of cloth represents any kind of proof of the resurrection of Jesus.

My reply to you, and my observation of how Christians love to talk about the ways and means of the barbaric torture and the horror of the supposed crucifixion of Jesus, at Easter time like clockwork every year blah blah blah etc etc etc ...

Sounds like you should have started a separate thread instead of derailing this one with your spastic hatred of Christianity.

reply to post by DeadSeraph

As Borrini told the New Scientist, this new crucifixion position would have been much more painful than the "T" shaped crucifixion, as being hung with one's arms above their head makes it very difficult to breathe. The scientists further suggested that one hung in a "Y" shape would likely die from asphyxiation

I think I've read something about the time frame for the crucifixion of Jesus being shorter than might be expected, could this be an explanation for that?

The authenticity of the shroud of Turin has no bearing on my faith whatsoever. Scientists could announce tomorrow that the whole thing is a fake and it wouldn't impact me one iota. I find it to be an interesting curiosity, but it has little to do with what I base my faith on.

Ditto. It's is an interesting artifact either way.

reply to post by windword


I made a remark that I found it interesting that there were marks on the back of the figure depicted on the shroud that resembled what one would expect to see from the victim of a scourging (as the gospel reports that Jesus was scourged prior to his crucifixion). I had never noticed that before. That in no way is some sort of sick fascination with torture, or me finding pleasure in the suffering of Christ.

I won't even bother dignifying the rest of your post with a rebuttal since you wouldn't bother reading anything I linked or said anyways.

Isn't the y significant when compared to the peace sign. I'm just saying, i think it isnt coincidence. Either way it dont matter

reply to post by windword


Im not understanding you, but christ was a historical figure, not a made up man. Him being a God is the only thing debatable. I myself believe, because there is much less hope on earth than in death

Jordan River
Isn't the y significant when compared to the peace sign. I'm just saying, i think it isnt coincidence. Either way it dont matter

Well, I have seen depictions of the crucifixion where Christ is shown on a typical cross, but his arms are raised up and his body position is lower on the cross and combined with the arms forms a Y, with the head hanging down.

So according to the study, the image on the shroud would indicate the figure was more like this:



as opposed to this:

DeadSeraph

Danbones
me, I'm not so sure about this whole cross deal as you might notice if you go to my siggy thread

i think the cross as it is expressed in christianity and all the other religions where saviors were hung on crosses
kind of throws a wrench into the whole shroud of turin being Jesus idea

16 saviors hung on crosses
infidels.org...

I don't really want to get into a debate on the historicity of Jesus since I've done that a million times here. I'm sure this sort of comment will pop up a lot in this thread, and that's to be expected given the subject. But I do have a couple questions for you:

-Where are all the other crucified saviors from other religions? Can you provide a reliable source? I've looked into this accusation and it appears to be a completely bogus claim. Your source above is not at all neutral, or even remotely scholarly.

-Are you aware that crucifixion actually happened and the romans were famous for it? Are you also aware they crucified Christians by their own admission? One final thing to consider: Crucifixion didn't become a method of execution until around 600BC. How can there be all these ancient religions with crucified saviors when the practice didn't even exist until 600BC?

edit on 8-4-2014 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)

ok we will skip the fact that you don't have any actual proof that that shroud is the actual image of Jesus
here is the wiki on "16 saviors"
en.wikipedia.org...'s_Sixteen_Crucified_Saviors

i don't need 16 to make a point...one will do just fine
here: a pic is worth a thousand words

that is mithra with a version of the cross as in

www.viewzone.com...
that is no sword its square...and graduated, the same measuring device as was spotted when the robot went into the sealed shaft in the great pyramid at giza
the root words for miter and mithra are the same...as in the popes fish hat miter
this cross was used by "our lord Amen"...one of the many linguistic variations of Menes the first pharoah of the united egypts
upper and lower..."as above so below"
menes was an admiral: we say TO CROSS AN OCEAN because the cross is actually a measuring and navigational instrument
if, after contemplating the working cross in my AV, you really want to know something interesting
the whole scoop is easily found on my siggy thread

now i hope this relevant to the op because if jesus is supposed to have been hung on a cross and there is actually a real cross and a connection to all these different dye-ities, then it throws serious doubts onto this shroud being a holy relic belonging to christianity for real

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the shroud is actually a negative. It isn't just a blood stained image of a man but a stained negative.

Simply placing a sheet over one's bloody face will not produce this effect . Crash tests dummies do not produce this effect either when their painted faces slam into an airbag.

But the shroud is a negative. This can only happen when exposed to intense light. This would also refute any possible hoax seeing no one in that time would be privy to what the hell a negative is anyway.

This is what makes the shroud so mysterious. It's a photograph.

Why is there any thought/credence that this is jesus' blanket?