Russia trying to 'dismember' Ukraine through protests, Kiev says

reply to post by Xcathdra

Prior to the annexation, a foreign military group took control inside Crimea. So yes, it was an invasion, regardless of how you try to deny it / shift focus.

Is this thread about Ukraine? "Nice shift".
I don't care how you paint whats going on in the Ukraine, the US, EU, NATO and the stinking IMF have no business meddling in their internal affairs
.

reply to post by intrptr


It sure is, and what we see occurring in eastern portions of Ukraine is the exact same thing we saw in Crimea, before Russia invaded and seized that territory from Ukraine.

I am sorry if the truth being introduced into these threads pisses you off, but im not going anywhere. I will continue to engage and refute so long as Russia continues down this path.

I would welcome all countries getting out of Ukraine's affairs but it is evident by the number of Russian nationals that have been arrested trying to get into Ukraine with weapons that Russia refuses to do so.

I personally don't see why Ukraine does not just pull a Stalin and force Russian nationals to leave Ukraine.

reply to post by Xcathdra


This mind set comes from years of experience of seeing through people ..
If you believe what you read about how the shield is situated or placed .. you've been watching too much tv ..
Thats all political hog wash .. the realty is what it is .. how would you like one of those in your back yard, which ever way they say it's place ..?

junglimogli
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

This mind set comes from years of experience of seeing through people ..
If you believe what you read about how the shield is situated or placed .. you've been watching too much tv ..
Thats all political hog wash .. the realty is what it is .. how would you like one of those in your back yard, which ever way they say it's place ..?

I find it amusing that people demand the west stay out of Ukraine's affairs yet have no problem putting their noses into the US / Poland / Romania's affairs when it comes to defensive armaments.

Or are you suggesting Russia has a right to interfere where they don't belong?

As for your comment about having that in my back yard... My city is a first strike city by the Russians and most likely the Chinese as well. So yes, I have no issues with a ABM system in my back yard.

reply to post by Xcathdra


"Russia supported it... "

Yeah well if that's so true then you would have to convince me not only why but also explain why Russia keeps complaining about it.

Russia did ask why these missile in Poland were in the wrong place to protect against missiles from Iran and they said they would join the program to develop a missile system deployed in there back garden but for some reason or another they never got took up on that offer.

All that Poland has achieved by agreeing to host american missiles is to draw a big red flag on it's own back and may I remind Americans that think they can stir the flames in Europe is Russia is more than capable of hitting Americans at home because they lead the world in missile technology and if you want to argue then argue with NASA because Russia provides NASA with a vehicle to launch all the big satellites into space.

Secret weapons, yeah we all have them so let not speculate on who is ahead of who

VirusGuard
"Russia supported it... "
Yeah well if that's so true then you would have to convince me not only why but also explain why Russia keeps complaining about it.

the only people I see complaining are Russian supporters, not Russia herself. Feel free to link me to the media sources that show it.

VirusGuard
Russia did ask why these missile in Poland were in the wrong place to protect against missiles from Iran and they said they would join the program to develop a missile system deployed in there back garden but for some reason or another they never got took up on that offer.

And Obama yanked the deployment of those missiles from Poland in favor of the ship bases system. With a resurgent Russia threatening Europe, Poland and Romania have a right to conduct their internal affairs as they see fit, including hosting radars for an ABM system.

VirusGuard
All that Poland has achieved by agreeing to host american missiles is to draw a big red flag on it's own back and may I remind Americans that think they can stir the flames in Europe is Russia is more than capable of hitting Americans at home because they lead the world in missile technology and if you want to argue then argue with NASA because Russia provides NASA with a vehicle to launch all the big satellites into space.

Poland is a sovereign nation and can decide on their own what they will and will not host. Same with Ukraine. As for Russia and space matters the US still has launch facilities in addition to several US companies that are providing cargo flights to the ISS. Its not difficult to adapt one for human transport.

Secondly, the bulk of the ISS systems are NASA based. If Russia wants to cut the US out the US can shut down the ISS. Shutting it down or blocking access to it by Russia with regards to US space flight serves no purpose, on either side.

VirusGuard
Secret weapons, yeah we all have them so let not speculate on who is ahead of who

Oh come on.. I enjoy it when the overly zealous start discussing Russian "cosmic weapons" and how they only hurt the country being attacked and no one else.

Being Russia could not support its own military over the last 20 years, I feel confident that Russia is behind... by a long ways.

Russia needs to take back Ukraine .. that's the only way they can stay head to head with the West trying to put up a missiles defense shield and such in Poland, etc .. once they have Ukraine, they can use that is a buffer zone to beef up their own defenses ..

Ever chased a woman...........it becomes twice as easy if she finds even half as much attraction towards you. Nearly same here, although one half of Uks wants to go west and other half towards east. Bottomline is money talks and if Russia offers better economic hopes then Uks would want to run to them. Mere bribes and coercion makes things little bit with friction.

There will probably be a new Cuban missile crisis ..since the US has again, had a direct destabilizing role in Cuba ..

Me no missile technology expert but I think both US and Russia have missiles in places where they want. That means, Russia has missiles in Cuba already and they are nuke armed and US has missiles in Poland, Baltics or where ever nearby they have chosen. These days cruise missiles are merely 20 ft long and six of them can be easily packed in a single car garage. Nothing doing with high vertical launchers and big structures to support the firing systems.

Soon hypersonic missiles will further negate the distance factors or pretty much leave it redundant. IMHO.

Xcathdra

junglimogli
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

This mind set comes from years of experience of seeing through people ..
If you believe what you read about how the shield is situated or placed .. you've been watching too much tv ..
Thats all political hog wash .. the realty is what it is .. how would you like one of those in your back yard, which ever way they say it's place ..?

I find it amusing that people demand the west stay out of Ukraine's affairs yet have no problem putting their noses into the US / Poland / Romania's affairs when it comes to defensive armaments.

Or are you suggesting Russia has a right to interfere where they don't belong?

As for your comment about having that in my back yard... My city is a first strike city by the Russians and most likely the Chinese as well. So yes, I have no issues with a ABM system in my back yard.

edit on 7-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

Good... so when missiles are placed right in your back yard .. I'm sure there will be no complaints from you ..
People don't seem to understand that nobody should be placing missiles so close to anyone ...its not about how or why ..
The US has 100% no business being there ... they're so shameless, that even after being busted red handed with a failed coup THEY instigated in Ukraine, they are still quaking around there like they did something good ..that's the height of arrogance ..

reply to post by Xcathdra


A quick search on Russia Today's site should convince you that Russia is far from Happy about these missiles, it's common knowledge so I will have to assume that RT is banned where you live.

Poland is a sovereign nation and can decide on their own what they will and will not host

That's a cop out and you know it and you would need to explain why the same rules cannot be applied to the Ukraine or why Russia got sanctioned because they allowed a vote in the Crimea.

No they don't want a vote in the Ukraine because they know they won't be getting the results the USA wants and that is why they tried to stop the vote in the Crimea.

Things will get a lot more real if/when the gas pipes are blown and I bet CNN has already recorded it propaganda ready to play.

reply to post by junglimogli


What you might not know is that the people on the streets of Europe are getting a little bit tired of the USA and NATO puppets.

All they ever show on TV is EU members from Brussels with big smiles on their faces when they talk about "American Partners" but the mood on the street is nothing like that at all and the only way you would find someone like that in a bar is if they were very drunk indeed and didn't raise there voice too loud else they would soon be shut up by other drinkers in the bar.

I've seen Russian troops up close first hand and they were very respectful but you wouldn't find me messing with them I can tell you.

reply to post by Xcathdra

…what we see occurring in eastern portions of Ukraine is the exact same thing we saw in Crimea, before Russia invaded and seized that territory from Ukraine.

Ummm, the referendum in Crimea happened as a result of what happened in Kiev. It was a counter move on Russia's part.

Only really necessary to remind the world whom is in charge of that "region". Russians have been there in Sevastopol for hundreds of years. See Russia's Black Sea fleet.

The sanctions (blockade) tactics currently employed by the US towards Russia should make people aware of just how meddlesome the US is in this regard.

We want to repress Russia. its been NATO's mission since it was formed after WWII . If we see it in that light it becomes obvious the US is playing deep in Russia's "interests", not the other way around.

reply to post by Xcathdra

the only people I see complaining are Russian supporters, not Russia herself. Feel free to link me to the media sources that show it.

How about all the response to you here? People are supporting the right to international sovereignty, not "supporting Russia". They aren't buying the western propaganda about who the bad guys are anymore.

Xcathdra
reply to post by intrptr

 

It sure is, and what we see occurring in eastern portions of Ukraine is the exact same thing we saw in Crimea, before Russia invaded and seized that territory from Ukraine.

I am sorry if the truth being introduced into these threads pisses you off, but im not going anywhere. I will continue to engage and refute so long as Russia continues down this path.

I would welcome all countries getting out of Ukraine's affairs but it is evident by the number of Russian nationals that have been arrested trying to get into Ukraine with weapons that Russia refuses to do so.

I personally don't see why Ukraine does not just pull a Stalin and force Russian nationals to leave Ukraine.

edit on 7-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

I applaud you Xcathdra it gets tiring trying to swim against the current. I myself get tired of trying to talk sense into flaky individuals who only see I hate the West rather than looking at something objectively. The ramifications of Russia's actions will resonate for the future. Who is ever going to trust any nuclear deal? Ukraine did and lost Crimea and looks to be losing some more in the future. That Budapest Memorandum seems to mean nothing. So tell North Korea to fire up its plants, Iran as well, aw hell lets have a new nuclear arms race.

Don't want coups? Don't try to install puppet governments. I hate it when the US tries it. I hate it when Russia tries it. Don't be hypocrites. This should be a Ukraine matter and a Ukraine matter only. Russia didn't mind Syria or Lybia during their civil wars yet all the sudden they feel the need to stop one in Crimea. And have been "asked" to send a peace keeping contingent once more lmao. I'm surprised any of you can swallow this and defend it with a straight face.

All for the sake of what? Balance? Once you cross the line and decide you take that stance you render all your previous arguments against the West invalid. Then it seems more like a case of jealousy and sour grapes. Stand up on your morals. Or don't stand up at all. If you were against US involvement in Iraq, Afghanistan, or any other puppet government installation. Then you should be steaming that Russia's puppet government failed in Ukraine. They then invaded, took land, and plan to take more. But I don't see that. I see a populace too quick to swallow anything Russia says because its not the West.

intrptr
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

the only people I see complaining are Russian supporters, not Russia herself. Feel free to link me to the media sources that show it.

How about all the response to you here? People are supporting the right to international sovereignty, not "supporting Russia". They aren't buying the western propaganda about who the bad guys are anymore.

How can you speak of international sovereignty, yet its cool for Russia to stomp on its neighbor because NATO is encroaching. Its irrelevant where NATO is. Did NATO invade Ukraine? Did they mass any troops on the border? NATO simply offered a better deal. Irrelevant if CIA or whatever boogie man you hold responsible for a coup in Kiev. Coups just don't happen, nor can they be manufactured so easily. There must be unrest beforehand, there must be poor conditions before hand. Its an internal matter, part of Ukraine's growing pains let them sort it out. Not Russia. Not the West.

For too long and too many wars those nations like Poland, Ukraine, Hungary, have been invaded or occupied. Let them breathe that goes for the East and the West. If bigger nations feel free to continue stomping on and taking from the little guy conditions will never improve and history will continue to rinse and repeat.

reply to post by victor7


"These days cruise missiles are merely 20 ft long and six of them can be easily packed in a single car garage"

I worked on bases in Europe that hosted such bad boys about 20 years ago, needless to say they were american base.

What I can tell you is that each missile had it's own compound and these building had a "Head Room" where each of the seven heads were removed from the missile and were then placed in separate bomb proof rooms much like a cars garage that had wooden doors that would be blown away if the conversational explosives went off by accident in any of the heads.

Each head had it's own life support system to keep these garages just at the right temperature and everything.

These american bases are hidden away all over the countryside, I've been to dozens any yet so few people are aware we have any let alone how many are here.

Russia is playing a damn fine game of acquiring territory through alternative means.

reply to post by daaskapital


Gee.. kind of like how the CIA have been hijacking protests since Egypt and propping up puppet regimes? Then parading John Mccain in front of the protesters like he's some kind of democratic savior?
How quickly we forget how the American embassy and the CIA and the state department all conspired to overthrow the democratically elected government of Ukraine through backed and funded protests. The proof is via the Victoria Nuland tape.
How about the George Soros financed protests. Look deeper into the rabbit hole and eventually the truth will hit you in the face. They specifically named who would be the next president and now we see the globalists central banker in charge of Ukraine.

But hang on a second...Russia trying to protect it's military and economic interests from American imperialism and a globalist takeover is bad?

I'm missing something here.....oh yeah ...it's American arrogance and hypocrisy again....whoop's I forgot!
This thread is pure agent propaganda...and an insult to the collective intelligence of many people on this site.

intrptr
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Prior to the annexation, a foreign military group took control inside Crimea. So yes, it was an invasion, regardless of how you try to deny it / shift focus.

Is this thread about Ukraine? "Nice shift".
I don't care how you paint whats going on in the Ukraine, the US, EU, NATO and the stinking IMF have no business meddling in their internal affairs
.

Don't worry about it, that dude is getting payed by the word count, resident ATS propagandist. Give it up to Brother Nathaniel, he's the man when it comes to fingering sell out degenerate jews that keep repeating the same old lies for a few shekels.

MrStyx

I applaud you Xcathdra it gets tiring trying to swim against the current. I myself get tired of trying to talk sense into flaky individuals who only see I hate the West rather than looking at something objectively.

Aaaaaahahahahaha! Same old lameass "East against the West" motif.

Are you kidding? Why don't you fellas bring out all the old cliches. Get them cowboy boots and white cowboy hats verses black "shapka ushanka" and vodka.

Laaaame! At least try and create something imaginative, because all that stereotypical nonsense is so last century it stinks like rotten fish.

You are the lame ass guys that are actually making Russia look cool to current generation.

junglimogli
Good... so when missiles are placed right in your back yard .. I'm sure there will be no complaints from you ..

Why would there be? They are defensive in nature and are only used when someone else attacks.

junglimogli
People don't seem to understand that nobody should be placing missiles so close to anyone ...its not about how or why ..

Normally I would agree but when you are a nation that is threatened by a neighbor who just invaded another country while making comments about Ethnic Russians in other sovereign nations, I would want assurances. Since Russia refuses to give those, a nation has a right to determine their level of defense.

junglimogli
The US has 100% no business being there ...

How do you not see the hypocrisy in your statement?

Are you suggesting Poland and Romania cannot make military decisions inside their own borders when it comes to defense? How is the NMB system any of Russia's business since it has nothing to do with them?

junglimogli
they're so shameless, that even after being busted red handed with a failed coup THEY instigated in Ukraine, they are still quaking around there like they did something good ..that's the height of arrogance ..

It does not matter how many time you use the word coup, it does not make it valid or factual.

What part of Former President Yanukovych signing the agreement that reinstated the 2004 Constitution immediately do you just not understand?

reply to post by mark1167


Cry Russia a river. Don't try to act like Russia is meek. They are just as meddlesome as the U.S and the West or did you forget their stint in Afghanistan or all the other back door projects, nations they supplied militarily and financially, or the BRICS nations whose economy will surpass the Wests quite soon.

If Russia didn't run out of money at the time they would still be all over the place like they used to be. They are trying to get back to that. This is the start. If you follow the comments and the stars they are mostly pro russian so tell me what huge agent presence are you seeing , unless you mean Russian propaganda agents.