Faith VS Science & Athiests

reply to post by FlyersFan


Yes this is true. Though while hardcore atheists do exist that vehemently disbelieve in god, I find that generally it's the religious that don't want to accept god and science. Take this guy 168617, his mind is already made up about evolution not being real, he is demanding proof so he can ridicule and misrepresent it then claim victory. It's not even worth engaging him properly because of this.

168617
I want observable proof which will convince me that Evolution is 100% fact..

Understandable. (Remember you said that in the discussion on the other thread)

It is very simple to prove that Adam and Eve didn't happen.
(and Noahs Ark didn't happen either) It's called DNA.

Science vs Faith

Unfortunately, the scientific evidence shows that Adam and Eve could not have existed, at least in the way they’re portrayed in the Bible. Genetic data show no evidence of any human bottleneck as small as two people: there are simply too many different kinds of genes around for that to be true. There may have been a couple of “bottlenecks” (reduced population sizes) in the history of our species, but the smallest one not involving recent colonization is a bottleneck of roughly 10,000-15,000 individuals that occurred between 50,000 and 100,000 years ago. That’s as small a population as our ancestors had, and—note—it’s not two individuals.

Humans and Apes Share 98.8 percent of same DNA
That's only a %1.2 difference between modern humans and apes. We had the same roots.
Natural selection took care of the changes through hundreds of thousands of years.
Natural selection is used by humans to create different dog breeds. Beagle. Shepherd. Poodle. Etc.
The same natural selection created different ape breeds. Humans are a naturally selected ape breed.

Adam and Eve are a METAPHOR.
But that in no way disproves God. God can use any means He wishes in order to create humans.

168617
Oh so you cannot give me observable evidence in the theory of evolution and your therefore telling me that I should put blind faith into the theory of something which cannot be observed right here and now? Is this your belief btw?

edit on 15-4-2014 by 168617 because: (no reason given)

I think that you have been given a somewhat exaggerated view of Evolution. Things don't evolve right in front of you. Well, not unless you have a lifespan that runs into the millions of years. Humans think that waiting until the end of the week is a long time. Geology tells us otherwise.

Instead you have to look at the fossil record. How did mankind get from Lucy and her brethren to us? Well, via many other forms and more than a few dead ends.

Krazysh0t
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Yes this is true. Though while hardcore atheists do exist that vehemently disbelieve in god, I find that generally it's the religious that don't want to accept god and science. Take this guy 168617, his mind is already made up about evolution not being real, he is demanding proof so he can ridicule and misrepresent it then claim victory. It's not even worth engaging him properly because of this.

edit on 15-4-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

No, there's no point engaging because you cannot produce the evidence which I'm asking for. You have put your faith into something which cannot be proven before your very own eyes and though I agree that it could be right to some degree, I cannot see any proof to suggest that evolution has happened in the past, continues to happen now and will in the future. Now again I ask before you run away, can you provide me observable proof that evolution is correct. A monkey changing into a cane toad, a horse mutating with an ant, even a Panda turning into a ebola cell or something... Anything. It shouldn't be that hard to do if the theory is 100% factual.

Krazysh0t
I find that generally it's the religious that don't want to accept god and science.

True. For some reason some folks think that if you accept the truth of science, it somehow means you can't accept God at the same time. God is the author of science, so that doesn't make sense to me.

BTW .. I just sent you a U2U ...

168617
You have put your faith into something which cannot be proven before your very own eyes ...

Dude .. you've done exactly what you are accusing him of doing. You have put your faith in an Islamic metaphor - Adam and Eve -and you think it's literally true even though the DNA evidence proves it's not. The DNA proves Noahs Ark is a fable as well. There is no arguing with the facts. But even though the facts show these stories are completely untrue, that in no way means that a person has to abandon belief in God.

Disproving Adam and Eve does not disprove God.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I wasn't asking for a fact sheet, I was asking for observable proof which you may of seen right before your eyes or something. Maybe there's a monkey mutating into a human right now somewhere around the world... I want to see it for myself.. Can you give me what I need to be convinced. What you are giving me I can do with the religious texts also. I can read it but do I believe it? I want proof that it's actually real.

168617
No, there's no point engaging because you cannot produce the evidence which I'm asking for. You have put your faith into something which cannot be proven before your very own eyes and though I agree that it could be right to some degree, I cannot see any proof to suggest that evolution has happened in the past, continues to happen now and will in the future. Now again I ask before you run away, can you provide me observable proof that evolution is correct. A monkey changing into a cane toad, a horse mutating with an ant, even a Panda turning into a ebola cell or something... Anything. It shouldn't be that hard to do if the theory is 100% factual.

Again, you're exaggerating what happens with Evolution. Perhaps you need more information on it? A horse can't mutate into an ant. It can evolve into a different form of horse and then into a different form of mammal. Pandas cannot evolve into viruses. That's ridiculous. That's like asking an anteater to evolve into the cold virus. Change is far, far more incremental than that. Something that started off as similar to an amoeba evolved over many millions and then billions of years into us, but that involved innumerable species in between. Time is the key factor here. We are talking about millions and millions of years.

168617

Krazysh0t
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Yes this is true. Though while hardcore atheists do exist that vehemently disbelieve in god, I find that generally it's the religious that don't want to accept god and science. Take this guy 168617, his mind is already made up about evolution not being real, he is demanding proof so he can ridicule and misrepresent it then claim victory. It's not even worth engaging him properly because of this.

edit on 15-4-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

No, there's no point engaging because you cannot produce the evidence which I'm asking for. You have put your faith into something which cannot be proven before your very own eyes and though I agree that it could be right to some degree, I cannot see any proof to suggest that evolution has happened in the past, continues to happen now and will in the future. Now again I ask before you run away, can you provide me observable proof that evolution is correct. A monkey changing into a cane toad, a horse mutating with an ant, even a Panda turning into a ebola cell or something... Anything. It shouldn't be that hard to do if the theory is 100% factual.

The evidence that you require is non-existent because evolution doesn't work that way. Evolution DOES happen all the time, but like I said it's not worth it to explain it because you've already made up your mind on this with your misconceptions on how evolution works.

Now again I ask before you run away, can you provide me observable proof that evolution is correct. A monkey changing into a cane toad, a horse mutating with an ant, even a Panda turning into a ebola cell or something... Anything. It shouldn't be that hard to do if the theory is 100% factual.

This group of sentences prove that you do not understand evolution and do not wish to understand it. You are trying to straw man attack evolution by demanding things that evolution cannot produce because it doesn't work that way. If you really cared about this, you'd educate yourself, but instead you are going to continue to spew wrong things then laugh derisively when we fail to give you this non-existent super-proof. I mean a horse mutating into an ant? REALLY? That crap is magic and something that god would do. Why don't you go educate yourself on this subject and then come back and try this debate again, you are about to be schooled.

FlyersFan

168617
You have put your faith into something which cannot be proven before your very own eyes ...

Dude .. you've done exactly what you are accusing him of doing. You have put your faith in an Islamic metaphor - Adam and Eve -and you think it's literally true even though the DNA evidence proves it's not. The DNA proves Noahs Ark is a fable as well. There is no arguing with the facts. But even though the facts show these stories are completely untrue, that in no way means that a person has to abandon belief in God.

Disproving Adam and Eve does not disprove God.

I wasn't speaking about religion, I was speaking about evolution.

168617
I wasn't asking for a fact sheet, I was asking for observable proof which you may of seen right before your eyes or something.

Scientific observation IS 'observable proof'. They did all the leg and brain work. Now, if you want to go get a doctorates degree in biology, then you will be educated enough to understand and can observe right along with them in the microscopes.

Can you give me what I need to be convinced.

Considering what you said HERE ... I highly doubt that anyone in this thread will be able to say anything that will even remotely sink in.

168617
I wasn't speaking about religion, I was speaking about evolution.

The title of this thread is Faith Vs Science ... and it's focused on evolution.

You asked about proof that evolution happens.
I gave DNA proof that the faith story of Adam and Eve, and the Noahs Ark, didn't happen.
I gave proof that natural selection does happen.

Therefore, the information I posted is in line with the title of the thread - Faith vs Science.

Krazysh0t

The evidence that you require is non-existent because evolution doesn't work that way. Evolution DOES happen all the time, but like I said it's not worth it to explain it because you've already made up your mind on this with your misconceptions on how evolution works.

No, evolution is micro bacteria forming into humans and animals on this planet and if this is the case then it should be a continual process which can be observed at any given time. Right now, you and no-one else can provide me with observable evidence to suggest that this theory is indeed correct. I'm only asking for one thing and that one thing is the essence of evolution. Or let's put it this way, one kind of animal changing into another.

This group of sentences prove that you do not understand evolution and do not wish to understand it. You are trying to straw man attack evolution by demanding things that evolution cannot produce because it doesn't work that way. If you really cared about this, you'd educate yourself, but instead you are going to continue to spew wrong things then laugh derisively when we fail to give you this non-existent super-proof. I mean a horse mutating into an ant? REALLY? That crap is magic and something that god would do. Why don't you go educate yourself on this subject and then come back and try this debate again, you are about to be schooled.

No, I thought I already would of been schooled but guess what, I'm not asking for a lesson on evolution, I'm asking for observable proof that evolution exists. So until you can find that evidence, everything else is moot.

168617
I'm asking for observable proof that evolution exists. So until you can find that evidence, everything else is moot.

Already given.

Go get your doctorates in biology and you can sit with the biologists and their microscopes and watch along with them as they show time after time that natural selection has happened all through the hundreds of thousands of years of human history. DNA doesn't lie.

It's not an overnight process. If you think it is, then you don't understand biology.

FlyersFan

168617
I'm asking for observable proof that evolution exists. So until you can find that evidence, everything else is moot.

Already given.

Go get your doctorates in biology and you can sit with the biologists and their microscopes and watch along with them as they show time after time that natural selection has happened all through the hundreds of thousands of years of human history. DNA doesn't lie.

It's not an overnight process. If you think it is, then you don't understand biology.

What did the cells change into? I think they would of still been cells, don't you? Or did they grow and become T-Rex's or something?

168617

Krazysh0t

The evidence that you require is non-existent because evolution doesn't work that way. Evolution DOES happen all the time, but like I said it's not worth it to explain it because you've already made up your mind on this with your misconceptions on how evolution works.

No, evolution is micro bacteria forming into humans and animals on this planet and if this is the case then it should be a continual process which can be observed at any given time. Right now, you and no-one else can provide me with observable evidence to suggest that this theory is indeed correct. I'm only asking for one thing and that one thing is the essence of evolution. Or let's put it this way, one kind of animal changing into another.

This group of sentences prove that you do not understand evolution and do not wish to understand it. You are trying to straw man attack evolution by demanding things that evolution cannot produce because it doesn't work that way. If you really cared about this, you'd educate yourself, but instead you are going to continue to spew wrong things then laugh derisively when we fail to give you this non-existent super-proof. I mean a horse mutating into an ant? REALLY? That crap is magic and something that god would do. Why don't you go educate yourself on this subject and then come back and try this debate again, you are about to be schooled.

No, I thought I already would of been schooled but guess what, I'm not asking for a lesson on evolution, I'm asking for observable proof that evolution exists. So until you can find that evidence, everything else is moot.

edit on 15-4-2014 by 168617 because: (no reason given)

No, again, you're not comprehending the sheer amount of time involved and the existence of intermediate species. Bacteria do not instantly evolve into human beings. The process took rather more time than the human brain can comprehend.

168617
What did the cells change into?

Here ... see this? Natural selection at work.


Humans engineered different dog breeds by selecting traits and breeding them either in or out.
Breeding is like natural selection at work .. quickly.

In nature, natural selection takes mutations and passes them along.
And like I showed .. 98.8 % of human DNA and ape DNA is the same.
Some mutations happened in the apes. Some did not.
The apes with mutations changed humans over hundreds of thousands of years.
Each generation slightly changing from the one before.
The better mutations stayed and were passed along. The bad ones died off.

It doesn't happen immediately under a microscope.

Like I said ... go to college ... take a biology course. Get a biology degree.
Then you'll have it all first hand in front of you.
Otherwise ... read what the experts have said ... the ones who know the field.
The doctorates in biology. They've mapped out the fact sheets.

/I'm done / OUT

AngryCymraeg
No, again, you're not comprehending the sheer amount of time involved and the existence of intermediate species. Bacteria do not instantly evolve into human beings. The process took rather more time than the human brain can comprehend.

Bacteria never evolved into human beings otherwise we would be able to observe bacteria at different stages of the evolutionary process doing this and therefore we should also be able to observe this natural wonder before our very eyes. Or did the process all happen at once never to happen again? Concerning bacteria/animals and humans of course? This idea is ridiculously stupid.

reply to post by 168617


This is the only kind of observable evidence for evolution which you've already said isn't good enough (because again, what you are demanding doesn't happen).

Viral evolution

Influenza, an ever-evolving target for vaccine development

Swine Flu Is Evolution in Action

Anyone who thinks evolution is for the birds should not be afraid of swine flu. Because if there's no such thing as evolution, then there's no such thing as a new strain of swine flu infecting people.

For the rest of the population, concern is justified.

The rapid evolution of the influenza virus is an example of Nature at her most opportunistic. Viruses evolve by the same means as humans, plus they use tricks such as stealing genetic code from other viruses.

Like I said, schooled.

FlyersFan

168617
What did the cells change into?

Here ... see this? Natural selection at work.

Humans engineered different dog breeds by selecting traits and breeding them either in or out.
Breeding is like natural selection at work .. quickly.

In nature, natural selection takes mutations and passes them along.
And like I showed .. 98.8 % of human DNA and ape DNA is the same.
Some mutations happened in the apes. Some did not.
The apes with mutations changed humans over hundreds of thousands of years.
Each generation slightly changing from the one before.
The better mutations stayed and were passed along. The bad ones died off.

It doesn't happen immediately under a microscope.

Like I said ... go to college ... take a biology course. Get a biology degree.
Then you'll have it all first hand in front of you.
Otherwise ... read what the experts have said ... the ones who know the field.
The doctorates in biology. They've mapped out the fact sheets.

/I'm done / OUT

They are still all dogs, what's your point? I'm looking for different kinds of animals evolving between each other and that is something that apparently cannot be proven.