Fort Hood shooter was taking "prescription drugs for depression and anxiety". SSRIs?

reply to post by jacktorrance


Fair enough and well said. I guess I got the impression you were denouncing the theory that adverse reactions are to blame for these completely out-of-character and out-of-the-blue homicides. I think the entire mental health issue is extremely complex. Notice how the killers are usually male, suggesting that testosterone and heaping mounds of cortisol and adrenaline are likely involved. Women have been known to go on murderous rampages as well, but it is quite rare compared to men. I think you will find that the majority of the people on this post who have brought up having experienced really negative reactions are men.

There are many variables. Hormones, diet, personal issues, genetics etc. Also, it is important to note that one's mental illness does not magically reappear if you forget to take your medicine. In actuality you start to experience drug withdrawal. And yes, drug withdrawal has been proven to have played a role in several significant murder/suicides. And yes, that does mean that the person had taken the medicine long enough to accumulate in the brain and bloodstream and then stopped it cold turkey. Depending on the medication, that can be THE MOST DANGEROUS thing imaginable. One of the worst drugs for discontinuation syndrome (i.e. psychosis upon missing a dose or stopping the meds) is Paxil. In fact, there are several class action lawsuits against GlaxoSmithKline, the makers of Paxil, as a result of the serious side effects. I myself took Paxil for years, so I am very understanding of this situation. It is an absolute miracle that I am still alive! Hence my passion about this subject...

reply to post by corsair00


I completely agree that the entire mental health subject is complex.

While I do know that the statistics for violent crimes do lean more towards male vs female, I certainly haven't done the research to know whether males are more adversely affected by medication than women. It could seem that way from a very rudimentary observation, but that doesn't make it so.

I too, completely understand and am passionate about this topic. I have been diagnosed with PTSD, schizophrenia with paranoid delusions, depression and anxiety with panic attacks. While I do believe that stopping any medication cold turkey will lead to withdrawal symptoms, I can very concretely tell you that the symptoms that I was experiencing prior to taking my medication, do recur if I stop my medication for any significant length of time. Auditory and visual hallucinations return, my depression clings to me again and my panic attacks are very hard to control. This isn't withdrawal, this is the actual symptoms returning.

I have never taken Paxil, although I have heard both positive and negative things about it. I certainly don't believe that drugs should be the immediate response to someone in therapy, nor do I believe that they will work for everyone. Our body chemistry varies greatly between individuals and I think that it should take a dedicated therapist to work closely with someone to find a solution that will work for them.

But I cannot condone demonizing medications outright, or making blanket statements to villanize them when the situation requires much more insight.

paxnatus
reply to post by ~Lucidity

 

Has it ever occurred to you the reason people are taking these meds in the first place is because they are mentally unstable!!
Perhaps the mental illness made them go on a rampage and NOT the drug!!

Ummm. No. Never. Thank you ever so much for pointing this out.

Has it ever occurred to you that some docs dispense meds like candy or without psychiatric consults? Sad because your mother died? Here have an antidepressant.

reply to post by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Just saw this. Exactly. Some places are slightly better than others. In some states you have to see a psychiatrist to get these kinds of meds. In others, not. After that, it's pretty much a crap shoot.

reply to post by James1982

Why am I not surprised you have no idea what you are talking about? Pretty common with anti-gun nuts like yourself.

I know very well what i'm talking about, i take those drugs and have been a lab rat for the last 6 years, but i havn't turned psychotic and wont.

I am not anti gun and i am not nuts, so in this case it's you who don't know what you are talking about

Don't judge people for discussing topics on ATS, thats rule # 1.

If you cared about making a logical argument you would know that America consumes the VAST majority of these drugs. You are simply wrong in assuming the rest of the world consumes these drugs at a rate anywhere near approaching America, therefore your comparison makes absolutely no sense.

Cough BS cough....I am not assuming, it's a daily discussion in the media where i live.

Methinks logical thought is not your strong point, best to stick with emotional blathering.

You are wrong and make no sense.

The truth is these things are happening because our society is sick.

I agree, so why are you blaming the drugs and me for not blaming the drugs?

People are sick because society is sick, and everyone is too cowardly to admit it so they try to blame guns, drugs, lack of religion, democrats, republicans, men, woman, blacks, whites, mexicans or whatever else, and it's a thin, embarrassing cover that's quickly wearing out.

Exactly, so why on earth did you atack me?, cause that was my whole point, and again why are you blaming me for saying, it's not the drugs?

To sum up, your post is confussing in the sense you are changing stance from the top to bottom.

Anyway, have a good one

I was put on Amitriptyline and Prozac for Fibromyalgia pain and found them really bad medications.

I stopped both cold turkey and never had any withdraw symptoms.

Prozac was the worst and i felt unsafe to drive along with having severe BPH from the medication. Plus they did nothing for the fibro pain.

I will never take antidepressants again ever.

i am now on gabapentin for the fibro pain and it works great without side effects.

Everyone at the base is waiting for the Bureau profilers to issue their report. Late today is expected. Speculation is senseless.

Did the drugs cause the violence or did the mental illness?
Most likely it was a combination.
The drugs work for many people. For some, it makes things worse.
The human brain and human chemistry ... it's all still a mystery.

Self edited. TOO MUCH INFO.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Pretty much all prescription drugs have one very "special" side effect even headeach(spell) pills and is written in the little folder or can be searched on the net, even your doctor can tell you this.

That is SUDDEN DEATH, yes, sudden death is written on allmost all drugs as a side effect but it's so far out and so rare that it's kind of stupid, but because it happend to a person no matter his age or state, it has to be written as a side effect.

Does that mean that you will get that side effect and suddenly die, no, not at all.

Side effects in most cases are non existing for a "normal" working person and should not be followed as a should avoid this drug or is it safe to take.

I have tried almost all of those drugs talked about in this thread and the worst side effect i got was dry mouth.

Zolpidem (we use generics in the UK) is one of a class of benzo-like drugs called Z drugs. Zolpidem has a rapid action onset 10-15 minutes with a half-life of approximately 2 hours. It induces sleep but has no anxiolytic properties. All the Z drugs are carcinogenic in humans, Zolpidem particularly. Zopiclone, another Z drug used for insomnia is now a controlled substance in many European cities due to its use by drugs addicts who like the calm controlled 'comedown' it gives. Zopiclone is not available in America but its pre-cursor eszopiclone is marketed as Lunesta.

I read an article that claimed that Zolpidem was given to travelling troops in the gulf war to facilitate a good 2 hour sleep prior to missions. I will try and find the link.

Self edited. TOO MUCH INFO.

reply to post by paxnatus


Thanks Pax!

Fortunately, it was my wife who saved me by recommending I try a hypnotherapist. I'd never been hypnotized, and I'm still not sure it really happened, but the short of it is that I'm a much different person than I was. I still suffer from rage, nightmares and generally odd feelings every once in awhile, but I am at least sustainable. Is there a chance I could go off the deep end? Sure, but I believe that could happen to anybody who's spent nearly 15 years in the Middle East, N. Africa and other "developing" nations since childhood.

The one takeaway I want to impart to everyone (including the vets) is that PTSD is different for each person and the medical treatment may be available, but the military will NOT be the one to promote a "full" recovery. I can prove this through the mission of the USAF mental health services. Their primary goal is the "rehabilitation" of service members. The fact that you will suffer lifelong issues is NOT their problem. In terms of business, they are only there to protect their investment and ensure personnel can continue to perform their duties. Of course they fail to recognize PTSD is a LIFELONG issue. I still recall my therapist whispering that PTSD was a "sensitive issue" when I asked to be tested for it. (That son of a *****!)

I also believe the VA, while good intentioned, is ENTIRELY too big a bureaucracy to care for service members.

At the end of the day, most military PTSD sufferers are left to their own devices to navigate through life. There are many end results - going postal is one (been there and done that!).

Thank you for suggesting EMDR! This is valuable information that needs to be shared in the PTSD community. I only hope that, one day, our government will abide by their promises to the service members. It won't happen in my generation, so I can only wish for the US citizens and the PTSD community share resources and help each other out.

Thanks again!

reply to post by ANNED


gabapentin is a drug that affects the nerves. the other two, elavil and prozac, are antidepressants.

Sounds like your doctors wanted to treat you from the perspective of "its all in her head". once that failed, they treated you from a physical point of view, and went after the nerves causing the pain.

Interesting.

paxnatus
reply to post by ~Lucidity

 

Has it ever occurred to you the reason people are taking these meds in the first place is because they are mentally unstable!!
Perhaps the mental illness made them go on a rampage and NOT the drug!!

I am going to give you an individual story that I could repeat for a couple dozen folks.

I worked in a mental hospital for 5 years, acute care/admissions. We had a regular come in one night on a transfer from the VA hospital. They had him on prozac. He tried to kill an orderly.

I knew him from prior admissions. He was also from the local community. He was a vet that had some substance abuse issues and depression. Never violence, and no real criminal history. When I asked him why he did it, he told me "It was the prozac. it changed the way i thought, made me angry and agitated for no reasosn. I asked the doctors to change it last week"

This was back in the early days of prozac, when they first acknowledged the homocidal thoughts as a side effect.

No one can be certain why this guy shot people. We CAN, however, be certain that SSRI's, particularly prozac and chantix/wellbutrin, increase the risk for such behavior.

reply to post by corsair00


I know very much the effects of rapid cycle manic bi-polar disease. Having suffered the highs and lows and self medicating with alcohol and downers I can tell you that going natural is not an option. Lithium (natural salt) and similar meds are excellent treatments for this disease. No amount of suffering the natural course of the illness is not an option. The end result could be slicing my ear off like another affected party - Van Gough, or chewing constantly on cigars - Churchill. I can go on but know this, manic depression, during the high periods can result in great accomplishments, but in the lows that follow there is nothing but blackness and despair which affects not only the sufferer, but everyone around them. My illness has been successfully treated and I remain free from episodes thanks to lithium. So are millions more. Meds work, talk therapy alone is completely useless and to insinuate that it is the only answer is insulting.

reply to post by KingIcarus


I think the only way to know for sure would be to do large studies of people who are taking these medications both for the indicated reason and for other reasons - off label indications.

I know from experience that you can have strong and negative reactions to medications without actually having originally having had any history of mental instability.

I suffer from migraine, and there are quite a few anti-depressants and anti-convulsants that can also be used in lower doses for migraine preventatives.

There needs to be a large study of people like us ran side-by-side with people who are prescribed these medications for mental issues with an evaluation of any addition mental side effects.

reply to post by Cynic


Thanks for sharing. I definitely can relate to your suffering. My mom and I have had similar issues for decades. Like I mentioned, her bipolar came on as a result of post partum. Her stress levels got so high she got ulcers and then the doctors accidentally overdosed her on Prednisone and she lost 100 pounds and almost died. Ever since then she has been mentally unstable. Of course, in hindsight it was probably the hormonal imbalance from the birth, the stress and the fact her body was completely toxified from medical malpractice that brought on the mood issues. But since believing in mental illness has the quality of being like a religion and completely over-the-top politically correct, she has embraced that like there is no tomorrow and believes wholeheartedly that medication is the only answer to any problem. Years later she got ulceritive colitis once more, and this time the lithium she had been taking for decades started to over-accumulate in her body and she was out of her mind in the hospital for months. Not in the psych ward either, but critical care.

So yeah, lithium seems helpful to people and is one of the safer drugs out there. But why are we confusing lithium and antidepressants? These are COMPLETELY different drugs. It is never a good thing to lump everything together. Like I said, that's called a thinking error. What people appear to be doing is projecting their own experiences onto those of others and expecting there to be a match. That is NOT how reality works, my friends, there is a wide variety of different situations, drugs etc and so on. So it's not possible to compare in that way, but I can understand why we are compelled to do so. Emotion and passion and personal experience! As I stated in the beginning, this is what drives and motivates humans, including their illnesses...

reply to post by corsair00


Well reasoned and thoughtful response. We may agree to disagree on certain points but I gave you a star none the less. Bi-polar is a horrible thing to live with and to try and explain it to a non-sufferer is like trying to describe color to someone that is blind from birth.

reply to post by Cynic


Yeah, I REALLY miss the manic days! I was so inspired and got so much done. Something went wrong with my serotonin and the Paxil and it has been roughly 5 years of that darkness you mentioned above. I am trying to figure out a way to deal with that. I am sort of stuck between the regular medication route and people recommending Abilify or going all the way natural and trying to detox. Because if there is something specifically wrong with my brain, like some sort of chemical damage, then it needs to be repaired before any additional medicating. I guess that's the thing that sometimes gets missed. When something goes horribly wrong, there can often be misdiagnosis. So one needs to be very careful and see the best specialists they can when it becomes that serious. And to stay away from guns! That's ultimately the take away lesson from this thread.

GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by gladtobehere

 

Ill bet a c note he was taking an SSRI.

I got into an argument a few weeks back with an extremely left leaning girl who was opposed to guns but inexplicably very supportive of medicating for mental health. I believe that ssri's are more to blame for mass shootings than any other single cause.

Actually, if anything, they'll blame the shootings on these people not taking their meds and use it as an excuse to monitor anyone who's taking them 24/7.