Seoul examines 'North Korea drone'

reply to post by daaskapital


Actually, you're right the more I think about that. You have a really good point. I mean they are really making these if South Korea recovered them. So..why?

Those are cheap enough to make in quantity they could never use high tech ones.....and they're cheap enough to be fully expendable. South Korea could have cheap drones falling on them for awhile, really. The obvious advantage hadn't even occurred to me at first. Some of the same thinking Iran takes on it's systems. Simple, cheap and many of them.

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by daaskapital

 

Actually, you're right the more I think about that. You have a really good point. I mean they are really making these if South Korea recovered them. So..why?

Those are cheap enough to make in quantity they could never use high tech ones.....and they're cheap enough to be fully expendable. South Korea could have cheap drones falling on them for awhile, really. The obvious advantage hadn't even occurred to me at first. Some of the same thinking Iran takes on it's systems. Simple, cheap and many of them.

Thanks.

Yeah, i'm thinking that taking the cheaper option is probably more effective when dealing with a neighbour. Especially if one was in the same position as the DPRK.

I'm unsure as to whether or not the DPRK has high tech drones (they probably do have them, if their participation in illegal activity/international conventions are anything to go by), but these cost effective ones aren't a bad idea.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I'd say the numbers matter but only depending on the situation. See if we are the reactionary party with UN support we would have no issues mowing them down with artillery and air superiority, but if we tried to be preemptive we can unleash for fear of international backlash and no support at home. That's why I think the west sits tight on ol NK. I don't claim to be an expert just logical lol.

RickyD
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I'd say the numbers matter but only depending on the situation. See if we are the reactionary party with UN support we would have no issues mowing them down with artillery and air superiority, but if we tried to be preemptive we can unleash for fear of international backlash and no support at home. That's why I think the west sits tight on ol NK. I don't claim to be an expert just logical lol.

That's the same thinking we had when we entered Korea the first time, and Vietnam...it won't work, not with the way a lot of their forces are geared to fight. We can't make that mistake, especially with a state such as the DPRK. If we were to go to war with them again, it will have to be fought by committed parties with strong tactics, as there will be no doubt that the war would last for a very, very long time, and be fought irregularly.

reply to post by RickyD


What situation do they need them for? Evidence seems to say they need them for immediate and peace time overflights to photograph. They may have been doing this a while. The colors are right for making them near impossible to spot on a clear sky and how high would they need to be in vertical feet to lose those little engines for noise?

Not a bad idea, really. I guess I just don't see nations doing the obvious and simple very often, so it's almost unbelievable when one does.

You could hear the buzz of those lil motors on overflight your position im sure....the height they fly cant be over a thousand feet if that, and I bet the control range is not too far either....you could peep over the next hill and that's it I bet....some drones....they don't even look intelligent....

There is a reason why the USA does nothing about North Korea. They are a real threat. They have a very sophisticated ballistic missle system with their medium range missiles being one of the best in the world. They have a massive army with a very difficult terrain of which we know little about ie they are EXPERT tunnel and underground engineers and have been building not only tunnels but entire cities and factories underground. SINCE THE 1950s!!!!!!!! We have no idea how complex and vast these underground systems are. That's scary! Even nukes probably can't touch them. The North Koreans were experts at guerrilla warfare during the Korean War. Unlike the Iranians the Nks actually have the ability to refine weapons grade uranium. Lets not mention all the artillery they've have concealed and pointed at Seoul since the 50's as well.

NK is a nightmare based in reality. Afghanistan and Iraq would be a cakewalk compared to a war with NK. They may be a poor country but that doesn't matter when every dollar they have goes into their military.

We'd have to fly something like 4000 sorties a day to be effective from an air power perspective. We flew 850 a day in the opening days of Iraq 2.0. Some people that talk about NK are clueless really.

Paper mache, cobalt mixed in water for paint, chainsaw motor, fashion a wood prop. BOOM. NK kamikaze drone.

I think they are rather smart. Let's not forget the USA's multi million dollar drone that crashed in Iran last year. Then compare that to NK's 100 dollar drone that had the same outcome. Who got hurt more there?

Wrabbit2000
They've been a corked bottle for over 50 years and those generations of North Koreans who know nothing but the State line of education. That includes Kim being a direct divine descendant from God. Old school. Very old school stuff...and they'd fight like it too. I don't think our military would really know what to do with human wave charges at 10 or 20 to 1 numbers, where they honestly do not care if they survive it or not, as long as those behind them get further before falling.

...how do you know all this? Just because the DPRK is an isolated country doesn't mean that they have reverted back to a 1000BC pharaoh-style dynasty where the people view their leaders as a God.

And you honestly believe that the DPRK would just waste their population by sending them in waves against killing machines? All North Koreans are conscripts. All have extensive military and survival training. You can sit there and believe that they are all stupid retards that will run into the line of fire of machineguns, but in reality, it means that it would be impossible to invade the DPRK because everybody in every building on every street is armed and has the discipline to kill you. Essentially, the DPRK has developed a national defence stratagem that few countries outside of the three superpowers can claim.

Personally, I hate it when people talk stupid things about the DPRK. People generally know little about it, so they try to rationalize that it must be run by some ultraviolent cult. Sure, there is a cult of personality, but the DPRK is far from what Cambodia was- and the difference is that the Cambodia suffered through a massive bombing campaign that led to the rise of a "death head" Orwellian dictatorship, while DPRK was surrounded and embargoed for half a century.

Cuba has been surrounded and embargoed for half a century. Do you think they are led by a religious cult, ready to blindly sacrifice themselves? No. In fact, Cuba has proven that isolation as a diplomatic / ideological policy is counter effective. Same thing in North Korea. Cubans and North Koreans know who to blame for their economic shortcomings and their people rally behind national culture, NOT for the foreign system of social control that has excluded them for so long. And with us being on the other side of the curtain, how the hell are we supposed to know what their society is really like?

WP4YT
. Who got hurt more there?

The US taxpayer

reply to post by Vovin


On many topics I share opinions on, my research is solid, but casual. Nothing too in depth, as depth is measured by hours of time invested. It's why you'll see me quite open to opposing viewpoints and actually change mine completely. It's rare, but it happens. We can all be mistaken.

However, on North Korea, I invested those hours. I put in that time. I do know what I'm talking about, at least as much as the next guy with access to unclassified sources and data. I wrote a 3 part series for the ATS forums on this very subject and it contained the depth I refer to above. You may find them interesting. (I have a similar series written on Iran, BTW)

Korea : Status of United States Forces and Early Signs of Changes

Korea : The Geography of Conflict in 2013

Korea : Military Concerns and Summaries

There are a baker's dozen I've authored for threads on the DPRK and the leader they have running the place. Those three represent the best for the bunch. I hope that helps explain where my opinions came from on this.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


That's nice and all but there's a big difference between writing things on a message board and publishing peer-reviewed journals / books that are bound by law and academic reputation to be based on facts.

In the occidental vs oriental perspective ("us and them"). It's an old way of thinking, used in making colonization a justifiable cause by believing the positivist narrative that your culture is superior and these outliers are backward savages.

The DPRK are perceived as evil, backwards, terrorized, ghetto-like, cult, etc. This is merely a presumption, mostly based on the fact that the most the average westerner will ever know about the DPRK would be the occasional news report, the quality of which is akin to a grocery store tabloid magazine featuring celebrity weight problems.

reply to post by Vovin


Well, those threads have every fact, every number and every piece of data sourced back and linked back to original or government sources. All of it. 100%.

I stand behind all 3 and everything in them as entirely accurate to what was available for material roughly 1 year ago (almost to the day, oddly enough).

Credibility is never in what any one of us says, unless we are true professional experts in a field. I know of a few here who are with relation to topics. A very few. The rest of us, pretty much stand on the quality and accuracy of sources to support pure personal opinions and interpretations. Again, everything in all 3 of those is sourced to the last detail. I was very careful in that, and the sources were as unbiased and authoritative as was available to use. As I recall, it took a few days leading into the posting, for assembling it all. A few solid days.

Would you have sourcing for what you say runs counter to what I presented? I'd be interested in seeing it to add it to my ongoing data on the DPRK. It would also add to the thread and the information presented here for what the DPRK is now, a year after I posted my series.

One of the biggest mistakes any contry can make is to underestimate another contrys army. It may make you feel safe and better, but look what happened in Vietnam.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I am formally trained to understand how geopolitical entities develop in terms of economics, technology, international relations, etc etc. My sources would be the culmination of many books, articles, projects, lectures, professionals, diplomats that I've had to deal with during the course of several years of theoretical research.

Am I an expert on North Korea? No. But I know well enough that North Korea is not composed of a bunch of menacing aliens and are, in fact, just as human as the rest of us.

reply to post by Vovin


so wait....lemme see if i've got this right...

you've not researched north korea....wrabbit has...extensively.....and you presume to tell him he's wrong?

sounds a bit arrogant...also sounds like someone forgot to take ther "ignorance denial supplement" with breakfast.



if you'd done even the slightest bit of research, you'd know that from childhood, their taught that the kim family are devine descendants.....literally living gods.. if you're not big into reading, there are a number of documentaries on north korea, that you could watch, where they actually go to north korea, and show what it's like there...hell, VICE did a tour of north korea....not saying that the citizens are all evil people, but the ones in charge sure as hell are, and the citizens have been lied to since they were old enough to understand language. the citizens are gorssly misinformed, not evil.

Kim Jong UN discusses the downed drone with one of his advisors and came to a startling conclusion -

reply to post by Daedalus


Excuse me? I said I was no expert on North Korea. I did not state that I never researched it.

I said that I am trained to understand socioeconomic development theory that underlies everything that makes up geopolitics.

Frankly I find your racist and xenophobic analysis of North Korea to be very offensive. Are you really going to defend such views on some country and it's people that you know nothing about, aside from what your society thinks of it? Personally I find that as a very aggressive way to view other people, to view them as evil savages that need you to "liberate" them.

And thanks for your tips on how I apparently don't read, so I need to watch documentaries. I guess all those years in university, hanging out with experts and diplomats, earning multiple degrees means jack on a website where "sources" are anything with a URL attached to them.

Vovin
reply to post by Daedalus

 

Excuse me? I said I was no expert on North Korea. I did not state that I never researched it.

I said that I am trained to understand socioeconomic development theory that underlies everything that makes up geopolitics.

Frankly I find your racist and xenophobic analysis of North Korea to be very offensive. Are you really going to defend such views on some country and it's people that you know nothing about, aside from what your society thinks of it? Personally I find that as a very aggressive way to view other people, to view them as evil savages that need you to "liberate" them.

And thanks for your tips on how I apparently don't read, so I need to watch documentaries. I guess all those years in university, hanging out with experts and diplomats, earning multiple degrees means jack on a website where "sources" are anything with a URL attached to them.

edit on 2-4-2014 by Vovin because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-4-2014 by Vovin because: (no reason given)

lol, you're funny....if you weren't so offensive, and full of crap, i'd like you.....

you're trained in theory....trends, charts, statistics, probabilities, and theoretical models in books..

i don't particularly care what degrees you have, or what school you went to..."education" does not equal "smart"

first of all, "racism" doesn't exist....the term implies that people of other ethnic descent are somehow another race...another species.....unless the aliens have landed, and i'm not getting all my memos, the last time i looked, we're all humans here...

the word you should have used was "bigotry", or some derivative thereof. xenophobic is another good one....too bad neither of them apply to anything i said.

i also never said they were evil savages that need to be liberated...way to put words in my mouth, and commit libel in public....good job, slick..

in fact, i went out of my way to say that the citizens are NOT evil..

again, you're talking to people who have researched the subject...but we're wrong, because we didn't waste our time in a university, learning theoreticals.....how elitest of you.... how about all those people who escaped north korea, and told their stories? are they lying too? are they racist xenophobes?

you should quit while you're ahead...