If you don't believe all the bible, why believe any of it?

reply to post by ArtemisE

If you don't believe all the bible, why believe any of it?

You too are positively influenced and believe and are benefited by a lot of what is in the Bible and Christian influences and don't realize it.

Why believe any of it ?

Personally I think both atheists and theists put far too much emphasis in exactly what to " believe " or not to " believe ", ...do they feel that somehow believing in the exact right concept or denouncing certain concepts will make any difference whatsoever ?

It is my " belief " lol, that it is not in the " believing " where understanding comes in, but in the doing

To try to elaborate lets look at a commandment and compare " believing vs doing "

Thou Shalt Not Lie

1) believing : Now if I were to believe that God had commanded me not to lie, I would probably assume that if I lie I'm bad person, if I don't lie I'm a good person. I would come to fear judgement with no real understanding of why lying is bad. Often people who think like this continue to lie anyway, assuming to make up for it or ask for forgiveness later.Often never taking the concept further than face value.

2) Doing : Now what if one were to simply make an honest effort not to lie. They realize that lying is often easier. That when we lie, we often trap ourselves into having to tell more lies to ensure the old ones are not found out, meaning it is hard to be in the now and genuine in relationships with others. Often our minds can not be at ease because we are looking over our shoulders so to speak . After a while of attempting honesty they might notice how free and clear their mind is of mental gymnastics now that they no longer have the worries and machinations that lying creates

Kargun

Has there been a time where we had more insanely dysfunctional and violent practices then today?

You ask this question then follow with a list of atrocities taken mainly from the previous 50 years???

Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,00 people murdered
Jozef Stalin (USSR 1932-39 only) 15,000,000 people murdered
Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000 people murdered
Kim II Sung (North Korea 1948-94) 1.6 million people murdered
Tito (Yugoslavia 1945-1987) 570,000 people murdered
Suharto (Communists 1967-66) 500,000 people murdered
Ante Pavelic (Croatia 1941-45) 359,000 people murdered
Ho Chi Min (Vietnam 1953-56) 200,000 people murdered
Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20) 30,000 people murdered
Adolf Hitler (Germany 1939-1945) 12,000,000 people murdered

Any Christians up on that list?

Yurp.....

Back OT,

As crazy and delusional as creationists are, at least they're consistent. They take the bible as it comes talking snakes and all. I've seen 'christians' ridiculing other christian creationists because of their insane beliefs regarding noah's ark and how it's logically impossible, while at the same time accepting without question the claims of jesus walking on water.

And those christians are the ones that think they should be taken seriously.....lol

schuyler
The really strange thing is why the atheists want to believe the Bible MUST be taken as a whole and CANNOT be assessed by its parts. Who made up that rule, anyway?

It seems to me that this is a rule which some atheists have invented for debating purposes.
They want Christians to believe literally in all the "worst" things of the Bible, because that makes them easier targets.
They want to be able to attack Christians on points like "You are evil because you believe in stoning adulterers!", so if Christians point out that they don't really believe in stoning adulterers, the atheist gets aggrieved and starts complaining that the Christians ought to believe in stoning adulterers, and they are "cherry-picking" if they don't. (This is an actual argument taken from an ATS thread a couple of years back).
"You are cherry-picking!" can be translated as "I want to hit you, and you won't stand still".

Well if we're under the assumption that we believe in a God who is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent, I don't see why you would think that God would allow His Word to become muddled and inaccurate just because the writers weren't accurate.

When people back in the days of the Bible would copy it down, they would be extremely careful. If two of the letters accidentally touched, they would trash it. When they came to a part that said God's name, they would stop, wash their hands and pray before writing the rest.

-that's what I heard anyway.

reply to post by Prezbo369

Didn't they find Noah's Arc in Turkey? Or at least they found a large boat on top of a mountain there. It's all debatable when it comes to religion though..

If you don't believe all the bible, why believe any of it?

Sadly, Jesus may actually agree with you.

A woman who had a face to face encounter with Jesus heard Him say that 99% won't cut it, it's either 100% or nothing...

Nathan Leal interviews "CJ"

A Testimony of a Face to Face Encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ

This quote is the key point: "You don't believe my word the Bible."

"It's My responsibility as God to protect My word for you."

Most "Christians" reject Jesus' teachings all together.

The end result for those who reject the Word of God is that VERY few make it to Heaven:

On August 3, 1979, Howard Pittman, a Baptist minister for 35 years, died while on the operating table during surgery and had a near-death experience.

Instead of allowing me to enter, the angel stationed me before the Gates, slightly to one side. He instructed me to stay there and watch as the saints were permitted to enter into Heaven. This point was so important that the Holy Spirit told me Himself. I watched the fifty saints enter Heaven, but the point I missed was the time frame involved.

It was explained to me that at the same time those fifty saints died on Earth, 1,950 other humans also died; or only 50 out of 2000 made it into Heaven. That other 1,950 were not there. Where were they? That was only 2 ½ percent going to Heaven! Ninety seven point five percent did not make it! Is that representative of the entire world today? If so, 97 ½ percent of the population of this world today is not ready to meet God.

Placebo by Howard Pittman

Christians in Hell

The two angels escorted me to Hell. I then saw many pastors, elders, and deacons in Hell. I asked the angel, “I know them. They had served God faithfully while on the Earth. They had died some time ago. We all had thought they were in Heaven with God. But now, I see them all in Hell and they are crying out that it is so hot! Why are they here?” There were so many pastors, elders, deacons and all other lay believers.

The angel answered, “Pastor Park Yong Gyu, a person can appear to be a true follower of Christ on the outside but God knows the heart.

There are multitudes of churches on the Earth and many of the churches are filled with many people. However, most of them are not true Christians. They are but church attendants. The true churches will firmly believe in Heaven and a Hell. The lives of many Christians are in chaos because they do not firmly believe in Heaven and Hell. When one soul enters Heaven, one thousand cursed souls enter Hell. The rate of Heaven and Hell is 1 to 1000.” (Matt 7:14)

Heaven & Hell 1000 to 1

Bishop Wilfred Lai is the founder and senior Pastor of Jesus Celebration Center in Mombasa, Kenya and it is a church of over 15,000 members. One day he asked the Lord how many of them were ready for heaven and the Lord told him only 200. Only 1% of that church is going to heaven! Dr. Lai said that some pastors have created large groups of sinners meeting in the name of God. “What you have are not churches, but large congregations of sinners.”

Message from Pastor Wilfred Lai

Jesus explained, “Sesame! In order for someone to be saved, they must believe and receive me sincerely deep into their hearts, but most importantly it is crucial to have a sincere heart and mind. Many who have received me end up in hell, because during the prayer of confession they simply recited the prayer without sincerity!”

Jesus also said, “Many profess they have accepted and proclaimed me into their hearts, and with their mouths believe that they are saved, since they’ve believed in me for a long time, but, it is not the length of time that determines your salvation. It is the process of bearing fruits in your character that leads you closer to attaining salvation.

Many believe blindly the incorrect teaching that simply reciting with their mouths will guarantee their salvation -- and are under an illusion that they will go to heaven. Salvation should be realized through fear and trembling and each individual must grow in sincere faith.” Jesus is heartbroken and frustrated that so many souls end up in hell because they believed erroneously.

Source

The way I see it is, the Bible was wrote in a time period that was relevant to them. It holds no relevance in today's society.

Oh wait, wasn't Sir Francis Bacon given the task to re-write the bible?

Yea, believe what you will. Just keep it to yourselves

Spiro

reply to post by DISRAELI


It really annoys me when they use that stoning thing.

First we get in trouble for not wanting to stone people because it means we're hypocrites. After all, the Bible says people should be stoned.

Then, when we point out something is sinful, we are told that we can't judge, and it's usually the story of Jesus stopping the woman from being stoned that is used as the example, so we're NOT supposed to stone people. Oh, well, we're not supposed to judge people who do sinful things, meaning that see, Jesus was cool with sin ... and we can't stone people.

But, they conveniently leave off the end of that episode where Jesus asks the woman after the crowd disperses if she had been condemned (stoned), and when she says "no," he sternly tells her to go and sin no more.

So, in other words, the real meaning of that story is not that we can't judge sinful actions, but that we are not condemn for them. Jesus still sees the sin and marks it accordingly. Because He shows mercy does not make the sin right in His eyes.

The other lesson is that the cherry-picking atheists want to accuse Christians of comes just as much from them and they'll do it to make sure that no matter what, we will never be in the right in any argument.

ArtemisE


This is for those Christians who don't believe in the literal truth of creation and the bible. But do believe and concierge them selves Christians.

How do you decide what to believe and what not to? To an atheist it looks like cherry picking what people wish were true. While ignoring the things you don't agree with. It seems to me that almost every Christian as a nearly completely different take on what all consider to absolute truth. Logically how can any truth be found when no one even agrees on the fundamentals?

Because people want to have their cake, and eat it too. They want the good without the bad, they want the cake, but not the cellulite on their asses as a result. There are even people in this thread guilty of such. I tend to think that there is some historical base for the stories contained within, and some are brilliant in their complexity, and layering, the dual-meanings and the symbolism. But, I cannot also say that it wasn't all invented by intelligent people with a design all their own. In the end, I don't 'believe' in the Bible, but I do believe in God. An oxymoron to some? Perhaps, but I don't care.

If you don't believe in some scientific theories, why believe in any of them?

reply to post by Spiro

It holds no relevance in today's society.

Again, it made western society, the sciences and the arts and laws.

Skyfloating
If you don't believe in some scientific theories, why believe in any of them?

It could be, possibly, that science is continually proved/disproved making the observer judge for themselves. The bible on the other hand has not and to this date can not be proved other than faith alone. Faith can not be proved so?

Not that I am debating against you friend, just thought perhaps I had a solution

Spiro

Skyfloating
If you don't believe in some scientific theories, why believe in any of them?

Why wouldn't you accept a scientific theory? scientific theories are well-substantiated explanations of some aspects of the natural world that are acquired through the scientific method, and repeatedly confirmed through observation and experimentation.

Whereas a 2000 yr old sheppard's guide to the galaxy....

Skyfloating
If you don't believe in some scientific theories, why believe in any of them?

Because they aren't all reunited in the same book?

Because science isn't only justified by faith?

reply to post by Skyfloating


It depends on which theories you are talking about. Remember, it's still the theory of gravity because when it comes to how gravity behaves in terms of deep space and as one of the four forces, there is still a lot about gravity that isn't fully understood. However, everyone knows and can test over and over how gravity behaves on earth. In those terms, gravity is imminently predictable and closer to fact than theory.

reply to post by ketsuko


Ever consider maybe it's the scripture who contradicts.

Your not supposed to judge people but it also has many judgmental tenants

Stormdancer777
reply to post by Spiro

 

It holds no relevance in today's society.

Again, it made western society, the sciences and the arts and laws.

Well this would explain why our society is fncked up. Believing and worshiping in something that hols no merit or truth in our day and age.

Spiro

There are countless encounters where Jesus says things such as:

"Didn’t you read my book?"

"You don't believe my word the Bible..."

"an audible voice telling him to read a Bible..."

God takes His word VERY seriously.

So MANY are deceived concerning the importance of taking God at His word.

You can ignore it but it WILL cost you.

Without the truth, you WILL be deceived...

“Every word of God proves true” ~ Proverbs 30:5

IF the Bible were not the "Word of God", WHY does He so often tell people to read it?

Dr. Richard Eby was a professor and obstetrician who fell off a second story balcony in Chicago and hit his head and died instantly and found himself in Paradise. When he came back to a bloodless corpse in the hospital morgue, the athiest Doctor refused to believe he was alive and told him to 'shut up and don't give me any of that #' because he knew that Eby had been taken into the hospital as a totally bloodless dead body.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Jesus, where am I？I gasped！ Suddenly in a new body in a new place with new life, I was ecstatically joyful: no pain, no tears, no sorrow, no memory.

　　Instantly, before I could complete my query, that same Voice in a tone of gentle thunder echoed within my head:　"Didn’t you read my book？"

　　He was speaking to me (in fact, in me) with a speed greater than lightning, and in a language of sweet purity unlike anything that an earthly tongue could utter. I gasped again. I had HIS MIND, impossible as it seemed！ Every word clearly meant exactly what was being said. We seemed to have a joint mind: I would ask, and He would answer. (The speed of this communication in such a MIND is hard to describe in human terms. Perchance I can now liken it to a printed page on which the questions being typed have the answers typed upon them, line upon line, at the same time, instantly.)

　　Yeshua began His answer: "If you had read My Book you would have known all the answers.

"In fact, everything that My children need to know about how God thinks and works and judges and rewards, either before or after the Cross, is already in My Book. That is why I commanded mankind to ‘engrave My Words upon their hearts,’ and to pass them along from generation to generation. I wanted everyone to hear and know just Who I AM, the Messiah, their one hope of Salvation, their Most High God."

Dr. Richard Eby dies, visits heaven, and returns with a startling message

reply to post by ketsuko

To point something out, stoning was the way of punishment back in the days of David. So when David wrote "they have pierced my hands and my feet," crucifixion wasn't a known form of punishment then. It was made by --someone-- and the Roman's took it and perfected it to cause even more suffering.

Unrelated to the topic other than stoning though, but I wanted to throw it out there.

reply to post by theabsolutetruth


Wow - I was feebly trying to formulate a somewhat intelligent response regarding how I feel on this matter (as someone who considers himself somewhat of a "Christian"), but upon reading what you wrote - I couldn't add much more with the possible exception being that I believe that perhaps the Old Testament should also be looked at as somewhat of a history book for the ancient Jews. A culture that, back then, believed everything was God's doing. If you successfully invaded another country, God was with you and His will was for you to take this land. If an enemy were to conquer you, God was angry at your sin and unbelief. They believed everything was God's doing, so that's what they included in their "history" book (the Pentateuch, Torah, part of the Old Testament).

And the New Testament, to me, is somewhat what it claims to be - the "eyewitness" accounting of Jesus' (Who's name is probably more accurately translated as Joshua...but that's a different thread) and the further adventures of the apostles after the death of Jesus. However, I firmly believe that these books were heavily edited and corrupted, beginning with the First Council of Nicaea (where the Divinity of Jesus was debated among other things). So there are clearly things added and left out in order to consolidate power.

But for me, I feel that the basic message of Jesus was to unconditionally love everyone including those who hate or persecute you. And I can't see any better message in any belief system.

So the short answer to your question (after my babbling above ) is that I believe what I think is "right" in my heart. There's no room for "hell" and "judgement" in my faith. I do not believe an all loving God would punish people for unbelief or being in love with a same sex partner or sex before marriage, etc. I believe that God (whether an all powerful Being, or maybe we're all little bits of God experiencing a brief mortal experience or...?) is simply pure love - and that is what we all should try to become.