NASA Says we Don't Have Much Time Left (New Report)

itlnlovr5
see the only problem with articles like this is the fact that there is no sources, no link to the NASA study, nothing. so what are we to just take his word that this "study" is real? # that! do you own research and you find out there was no "study" (plus why would NASA of all places do a study like this?) don't blindly believe some random article on the internet as truth.

If you follow the trails, to comes down to this:

It was NOT a study done by NASA. It was a study FUNDED by NASA.

The original article appears here in a news media outlet called The Guardian. The article was written by Nafeez Ahmed.

He cites his sources from SESYNC.

At the very end of his article, Mr. Ahmed says:

Although the study is largely theoretical, a number of other more empirically-focused studies - by KPMG and the UK Government Office of Science for instance - have warned that the convergence of food, water and energy crises could create a 'perfect storm' within about fifteen years. But these 'business as usual' forecasts could be very conservative.

Here are the links to those two studies:

KPMG

And a paper by John Beddington CMG FRS
Chief Scientific Adviser to HM Government
From the United Kingdom.

reply to post by eriktheawful


Thank you, I was just about to do that

I'll have to admit then that my title is not exactly correct. I'd change it if I could.

What I can do is supply this article, which I just found:

NASA Clarifies Role in New Civilization-Collapse Study



NASA officials released this statement on the study today (March 20):

"A soon-to-be published research paper, 'Human and Nature Dynamics (HANDY): Modeling Inequality and Use of Resources in the Collapse or Sustainability of Societies' by University of Maryland researchers Safa Motesharrei and Eugenia Kalnay, and University of Minnesota's Jorge Rivas, was not solicited, directed or reviewed by NASA. It is an independent study by the university researchers utilizing research tools developed for a separate NASA activity. As is the case with all independent research, the views and conclusions in the paper are those of the authors alone. NASA does not endorse the paper or its conclusions."

the mathematicians and there models ,unless better then the climate models they used that have failed big time to have any predictability value

These are not highly abstract, unpredictable concepts. We know how many people there are, and how much of most resources there are and it's pretty obvious to see that we could easily have massive catastophies as the population grows. We have already had food riots in many countries from shortages and price increases and growing third world countries more will just increase it. Not to mention that much of the world including the US has serious water problems.

reply to post by Aqualung2012


But then I find this article: (which does in fact quote a NASA official)

“The entire ecosystem is crashing,” Dennis Bushnell, chief scientist of NASA’s Langley Research Center said Thursday. “Essentially, there’s too many of us. We’ve been far too successful as the human animal. People allege we’re short 40-50 percent of a planet now. As the Asians and their billions come up to our living systems, we’re going to need three more planets.”

reply to post by Aqualung2012



And here is another article that references the study, and expounds upon the idea that something similar to Communism is the only way to stop the collapse.

John Holdren, Science Czar to the White House:

“Indeed, it has been concluded that compulsory population-control laws, even including laws requiring compulsory abortion, could be sustained under the existing Constitution if the population crisis became sufficiently severe to endanger the society,” Holdren and Ehrlich wrote. “Few today consider the situation in the United States serious enough to justify compulsion, however.”

fuzzy0087
I've been working on starting my own nation. It's about all I can do to save the human race. The current governments that rule the world are too busy fighting over resources and space when there is literally an entire galaxy full of resources. I just need more people to make it happen. How is it a man running something like Jonestown can gather followers just to kill them all but when I attempt to get people who are willing to work to save an entire species people only say, "good luck with that." or some other ridiculous comment.

People are always saying how screwed we are but nobody wants to step up and help me fix it. For countless generations problems were passed off as something that future generations would have to fix or deal with. Well I'm trying to deal with it and stop that cycle of thinking.

Is there anyone on this website who is willing to join me in attempting to fix things?

You want to start a new nation in Canada where there will be a democratic monarchy where you will be the king? Your website is remarkable. Not necessarily in a good way.

My favorite part... "There will be a king but his decisions will be greatly influenced by the citizens. Kind of like how the jury influences a judges decisions."

You are aware that a court ruling is either a jury OR a judge, right?

AAC

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation


From fuzzy0087's website: (because it's on topic)

From the "goals" section:

Food: Research will be done to supply enough food throughout the year in any climate for an entire population, essentially solving world hunger is the ultimate goal.

That is exactly the research this thread is talking about, well... almost.

But I'm afraid the idea here is: It's just not looking like that gonna happen for us. Maybe this micro-nation could equally distribute its micro resources and sustain itself, but that falls quite short of solving the total problem. It hurts my mind to try to actually consider all the different aspects of the situation.

reply to post by Aqualung2012

The report, written by applied mathematician Safa Motesharrei of the National Socio-Environmental Synthesis Center along with a team of natural and social scientists, explains that modern civilization is doomed.

I've never heard of this guy.

Let's check him out.

Safa Motesharrei?
Who is Dr. Genia Brin?
Oh. Look. It's google boy Sergei Brin!


Courtesy thumb to large version

I believe this, and I've said it before:

The only thing that could possibly direct us off this path IS a massive disaster (cool band name btw, "Massive Disaster".)

But seriously, most people are way too set in their own ways for anything but a near-ELE to actually uproot deep the social, religious, political, and ideological disorders embedded in our societies... this is just my opinion of course.

But again, going back to the Mayan and Roman examples: those civilization's falls involved invasion, warfare, and disease... and that was a long, long time ago. Imagine the death rolls of today's greedy, digitally interconnected, nuclear energy wielding, sociopath driven world as compared to those of civilizations back then... there is just no comparison.

So maybe it wouldn't be the worst thing if an asteroid just popped us a good one... Honestly though I feel like that's really what it would take, something that powerful: either or a mega-disaster or an incredible miracle... and I don't know anyone who doesn't believe in disasters.

SayonaraJupiter
reply to post by Aqualung2012

 

The report, written by applied mathematician Safa Motesharrei of the National Socio-Environmental Synthesis Center along with a team of natural and social scientists, explains that modern civilization is doomed.

I've never heard of this guy.

Let's check him out.

Safa Motesharrei?
Who is Dr. Genia Brin?
Oh. Look. It's google boy Sergei Brin!

Courtesy thumb to large version

I appreciate the connection, definitely.

It seems to imply that this report was paid for by Google as well as NASA, because Sergey Brin's Mom awarded one of the authors of the report the first "Lev Gandin Fellowship?"

Care to expand on that?

In essence the article concludes that wealth redistribution is the solution...so socialism again. Because that's worked so well in the Soviet Union, large parts of Africa, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela...

Check this out David Brin, novelist, NASA consultant.

Good. Let's get the ball rolling. Maybe the civlization/society that comes after us won't be war-mongering, earth-raping, wealth-worshipping dill-holes. Maybe some kind of sane society will arise that will reach for the stars instead of having their heads up their own backsides.

Skyfloating
In essence the article concludes that wealth redistribution is the solution...so socialism again. Because that's worked so well in the Soviet Union, large parts of Africa, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela...

edit on 2014 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)

Maybe not in those places but it works great in Sweden, Finland, Norway, the Netherlands, Denmark, and Canada.

Malynn
Good. Let's get the ball rolling. Maybe the civlization/society that comes after us won't be war-mongering, earth-raping, wealth-worshipping dill-holes. Maybe some kind of sane society will arise that will reach for the stars instead of having their heads up their own backsides.

Only if we re-established truth in history. Only if there is a small enough remaining population, with a cataclysm so powerful as to be witnessed by each survivor, which would be so violent it destroys every faculty: every structure, every government, bank, market, etc... and only if we don't all go completely insane from the turmoil. What would "sane" be if every paradigm was suddenly blasted to bits?

I don't think we can do anything to get that ball rolling ourselves (nor would I really want to) ...but I also can't think of any other force besides utter devastation which can break down boundaries so well established, and in such a short time. Wish I could.

But on the plus side: we would basically be kicked back to the days of early Natives, but already possessing the knowledge of physics, medicine, electronics, flight, etc etc... and at the same time be freed of the burden of all the splintered populations, the blood-drunk elite, the starving, the widespread disease.... all the conditions we have set up for ourselves. Finally free. We would rebound in no time, but instead of our lives being consequences of the distant past, the first generation would be the writers of the new history, the founders of the new humanity. That's a pretty big idea.

Imagine if we knew everything we know now... back in Egyptian times.

reply to post by Aqualung2012

I appreciate the connection, definitely.

It seems to imply that this report was paid for by Google as well as NASA... so why?

To be exact, it's not NASA or Google doing this, it's elements within NASA and Google. Safa is not alone, he had a team working with him.

And to be more accurate it's not NASA that funded the study it was sponsored by Goddard, according the Guardian.

A new study sponsored by Nasa's Goddard Space Flight Center has highlighted the prospect that global industrial civilisation could collapse in coming decades due to unsustainable resource exploitation and increasingly unequal wealth distribution. source www.theguardian.com...

This story has legs, as they say. There is a strong idealistic social and scientific movement which is obsessed with the collapse of civilization. It seems these people are part of that movement. The studies they publish are propaganda for that movement.

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


So... no "Rogue NASA blowing the doors off the thing?" I really want to see some rogue NASA action though.



*In a world... where government funding just isn't enough... and the People deserve the truth!... there is NASA!*

...And this time... it's personal.


I can see what you mean though. There is money to be made in the shadow of an "approaching apocalypse", especially if you convince people there is something to be done, and/or it's partially their fault. I have noticed that GoogleNews has a LOT of links to articles that push the climate-doom agenda. A whole lot.

But no... I'm just not sure I believe this is a "brush-it-off" thing... Propaganda or not, they do have a very important point.

This is quite funny because

I watched a film last night called after the dark , which is a film based on a philosophical thought experiment where
the philosophy students are tasked to choose 10 people to save the planet after the apocalypse

Now the most interesting thing about it was not the film itself
but the meaning of the word apocalypse

Apocalypse

from greek Apocalypsis meaning an Un-covering as in to reveal what was not visible before , a disclosure

now this is certainly interesting if NASA funded this study or at least were connected with it

Malynn


Maybe not in those places but it works great in Sweden, Finland, Norway, the Netherlands, Denmark, and Canada.

Its about the thousandth time that I've heard this response, its about time I make a thread about it.

Those are capitalist countries with a few social welfare programs. Countries like Norway, with its Billions of Oil Dollars for a few Million inhabitants cannot be considered a model for other countries anyway.

reply to post by Skyfloating


What's that quote? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity? Or something like that? Capitalism is failing miserably. An entire economic system set-up so that a small minority can become ridiculously wealthy off the backs of others isn't a sane or effective system. A mixture of capitalism and socialism works just fine for many countries. Being rigid and stuck in any ideology only makes one a zealot. It is those willing to try new ideas and abandon outdated ones who could change the world. Unfortunately the capitalist nobility has programmed the serfs to defend their fortunes...In the US anyway.