President Obama: No US "military excursion" in Ukraine

reply to post by ProfessorT


Of which none of those security assurances are military intervention. The Budapest Memo is a memo--not a treaty and definitely not a military alliance type of treaty either.

bubab
reply to post by WhiteAlice

 

Hasn't the CFR got Hillary under their wing and she was publically recorded saying "They're working on it". ie.,, trying to get bombing Iran.

Please do not encourage the CFR.

The Council of Foreign Relations was merely the host for the original document of the Budapest Memorandum in its original wording. Not many sites out there that have it. In fact, it was the only one I found with it.

WhiteAlice
reply to post by ProfessorT

 

Of which none of those security assurances are military intervention. The Budapest Memo is a memo--not a treaty and definitely not a military alliance type of treaty either.

bubab
reply to post by WhiteAlice

 

Hasn't the CFR got Hillary under their wing and she was publically recorded saying "They're working on it". ie.,, trying to get bombing Iran.

Please do not encourage the CFR.

The Council of Foreign Relations was merely the host for the original document of the Budapest Memorandum in its original wording. Not many sites out there that have it. In fact, it was the only one I found with it.

edit on 20/3/14 by WhiteAlice because: (no reason given)

They are security assurances. Assurances that were made to Ukraine so they would get rid of their nuclear stockpile. You can't sign agreements like this and 20 years later disregard them. Ukraine's allies have a duty to protect them, especially those within this agreement under the United Nations Charter. Unfortunately it just so happens President Obama's testes are playing hide and seek.

reply to post by ProfessorT


Quite, forget the Budapest Memorandum, Russia's actions are in direct contradiction to the UN Charter and if it had been any other nation not on the UNSC as a permanent, veto wielding member, we would be seeing a UN force being readied as we saw in the 1st Gulf War to evict them from the land they have "annexed".

stumason
reply to post by ProfessorT

 

Quite, forget the Budapest Memorandum, Russia's actions are in direct contradiction to the UN Charter and if it had been any other nation not on the UNSC as a permanent, veto wielding member, we would be seeing a UN force being readied as we saw in the 1st Gulf War to evict them from the land they have "annexed".

Just FYI, russia was not the invading force in kuwait, just so you know. And, if it really was a violation to the UN chrter, we would be seeing some more action right? Or are they all too afraid of big bad russia?

Yusomad

stumason
reply to post by ProfessorT

 

Quite, forget the Budapest Memorandum, Russia's actions are in direct contradiction to the UN Charter and if it had been any other nation not on the UNSC as a permanent, veto wielding member, we would be seeing a UN force being readied as we saw in the 1st Gulf War to evict them from the land they have "annexed".

Just FYI, russia was not the invading force in kuwait, just so you know. And, if it really was a violation to the UN chrter, we would be seeing some more action right? Or are they all too afraid of big bad russia?

And where did I say Russia was the "invading force in Kuwait"? I know full well who did what back in 1990, I was around then.

As to "if it really was a violation to the UN chrter, we would be seeing some more action right", that was my point!

But the UN cannot act without a UNSC resolution, which cannot happen as Russia is a permanent, veto wielding member and can block it. And yes, the West wants to avoid conflict with Russia because they have a sizeable nuclear arsenal and these things can escalate beyond control, quickly.

I think you have totally misunderstood/misread what I have written.

"Excursion"? Wouldn't it be an "incursion"?

Excursion:
1. a short trip or outing to some place, usually for a special purpose and with the intention of a prompt return: a pleasure excursion; a scientific excursion.
2. a trip on a train, ship, etc., at a reduced rate: weekend excursions to mountain resorts.
3. the group of persons making such a journey: an excursion of tourists.
4. a deviation or digression: excursions into futile philosophizing.
5. Physics. the displacement of a body or a point from a mean position or neutral value, as in an oscillation.

Incursion:
1. a hostile entrance into or invasion of a place or territory, especially a sudden one; raid: The bandits made brief incursions on the village.
2. a harmful inroad.
3. a running in: the incursion of sea water.

Okay, well, maybe given #4 for 'excursion', which describes nearly everything Obama has done in office, 'excursion' is appropriate.

reply to post by abecedarian


It would depend on your point of view..

For the US, sending troops from the US into the Crimea could be called an "excursion". For the Crimean's, the US military would be making an "incursion".

It also depends on which dictionary you use as to whether they have a complete list of examples/definitions.

excursion (ɪkˈskɜːʃən; -ʒən)
n
1. a short outward and return journey, esp for relaxation, sightseeing, etc; outing
2. a group of people going on such a journey
3. (Railways) (modifier) of or relating to special reduced rates offered on certain journeys by rail: an excursion ticket.
4. a digression or deviation; diversion: an excursion into politics.
5. (Military) (formerly) a raid or attack
6. (General Physics) physics
a. a movement from an equilibrium position, as in an oscillation
b. the magnitude of this displacement
7. (Physiology) the normal movement of a movable bodily organ or part from its resting position, such as the lateral movement of the lower jaw
8. (Mechanical Engineering) machinery the locus of a point on a moving part, esp the deflection of a whirling shaft
[C16: from Latin excursiō an attack, from excurrere to run out, from currere to run]

Another Dictionary

stumason
reply to post by abecedarian

 

It would depend on your point of view..

For the US, sending troops from the US into the Crimea could be called an "excursion". For the Crimean's, the US military would be making an "incursion".

I might disagree as the US could make an "incursion" into a country, using the definitions I listed, as that would be a 3rd person point of view, which could include anyone not part of the US military's view.

It also depends on which dictionary you use as to whether they have a complete list of examples/definitions.

Quite true, I suppose.

But I can't remember hearing of a military operation referred to as an "excursion".

abecedarian
I might disagree as the US could make an "incursion" into a country, using the definitions I listed, as that would be a 3rd person point of view, which could include anyone not part of the US military's view.

On the contrary, it seems we agree entirely. Depending on who is describing it, it could be an incursion or an excursion.

abecedarian
Quite true, I suppose.

But I can't remember hearing of a military operation referred to as an "excursion".

Indeed, I don't believe it is a commonly used term. Searching the interwebs for "military excursion", most of the first two pages deal specifically with Obama's statement. Further down the search results, you can find historical references to "excursions" when described from the point of view of the nation undertaking the action, but it is not common parlance.