Do you believe in a Creator?, If so why do you believe in a Creator?

I recently posed this question on a philosophy forum in the religious/metaphysical section. Since you of ATS have shown an intelligence worthy of serious consideration and since I suddenly and spontaniously found a staisfactory [to me] answer to my observatiion, I will post the original qustion and the answer I came up with days later - And ask what do you think?

Here is the original querry:

"Most who are on this forum probably do not believe in a creator. Personally I have become a hard core agnostic who sees 'Intelligent design' as the nature of the universe man finds himself in - Science proves that this universe is based upon an intelligence that science verifies. But why should we believe that this science that continues to understand this universe has any inherit meaning to it? Why should we believe that a universe that is apparently scientifically designed has a meaning, and an intent purpose? You who believe, tell us why we should believe in A Creator?"

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After the usually bickering, but intelligent debate I felt it was time for my AlienView. Here it is:

"Let me try to express what i see - Let me call it my 'AlienView'. I argue ID [intelligent design] as I interpret it to mean that the more we learn of the universe and existence the more it appears to possess an intelligent well ordered state - science continues to verify through biology, chemistry, physics on all levels, that this universe has logical, verifiable and observable order. Creationists would then construe it must have been so created - but there is no proof of this. The fact that the universe posses an inherently designed order, verifiable by intelligent observation does not prove that it was created by a separate and conscious intelligence. From my point of view the creator is an abstraction of the human mind trying to understand the intelligently designed universe that surrounds him and that he is part of. But this also does not deny the existence of a creator but from my AlienView we my have the order of creation reversed from its reality - for in reality it is man that creates the God he dreams about - not vice-averse. As we approach the promised 'Singularity' prophesied by some of our scientists and philosophers of the future where the technology of man rivals the wildest dreams of science fiction, Man, God and Immortality rather than becoming quaint abstracts of the past will now become the gateway to the New Dawn - Man will not have rejected his God Man will have become that God - And maybe, just maybe that is the intelligence of this ever evolving universe that also allows for our evolving and ever creating intelligence."

"THE FUTURE IS NOW"

What say you all? Ready for the future? Ready for the New Dawn?

Every creation has a creator

reply to post by LightningStrikesHere


A never ending argument

As nearly every child asks

If there is a creator then who is his/her mum and dad?

From the mouths of babes.

LightningStrikesHere
Every creation has a creator

Or, is it the nature of an intelligent and creative universe to create a creator? Could we have created intelligence out a chaotic void?
Or maybe there must always have been an intelligence that we continue to define and understand? We create and are thus created.

marvinhaartian
reply to post by LightningStrikesHere

 

A never ending argument

As nearly every child asks

If there is a creator then who is his/her mum and dad?

From the mouths of babes.

Well that's knowledge we have yet to Observe scientifically , unless you sum it up to something like an atom bouncing in and out of existence ,as their are atoms that do so....

Or from a religious point of view , "god" always was , the very beginning of creation , and endless energy of love .

But something had to have created us.
Rewind man and you will still come to the same Question/conclusion.. "Something had to have created us"

but for me.proof of a divine creator is in "its" creations . I see it in the trees ,the clouds , THE EARTH . Again simply put something had to have created all of this .

AlienView
Science proves that this universe is based upon an intelligence that science verifies.

Have you got anything to back this up? I'm yet to see any scientific proof to support that.

People's brains like to find patterns, causes and reasons in things. We ask the why question and the why question leads to a creator.

The problem is that asking why may be pointless. The reason for so many different answers to that one question may well be due to the fact that it is a stupid question.

The "why" question will never be answered. We can either accept that or not.
If we can't? find a religion that falsely answers it and feel all warm and fuzzy and go about your day.
If we can? Just go about your day.

Because without a creator, the universe shouldnt exist. It doesnt matter how many scientists you throw at it, the fact it all exploded into existence for no reason what so ever makes people feel tiny and alone.

My life is largely meaningless and im okay with this, i started as dirt and i will end up as dirt. no biggy. Others have this misguided sense of meaning to their lives, they are too big headed to accept they are nothing more than complicated matter that cant and wont last forever. Heaven and Gods make this news less "horrible" to them. Leave them to it, just dont murder me before my time and its all good in my book.

reply to post by LightningStrikesHere


That is not proof

That is faith

Two very different things

But if it helps you get through the night

It's all right.

reply to post by AlienView


I believe that at some point in our past something or some group probably did indeed tamper with our genetic makeup and somehow imprint sentience. So my answer has to be yes i do believe in a creator or creators but not in the standard Judeo Christian sense or any other man made organised religion for that matter.

[ihemartian
reply to post by LightningStrikesHere

 

That is not proof

That is faith

Two very different things

But if it helps you get through the night

It's all right.

Who was asking for "proof"? Or "faith" ?

I was giving MY OPINION..

And Yes it does Work for me . I am happy and humble . Life is great with my current understanding

Do you believe in a Creator?, If so why do you believe in a Creator?

Personal experience with the metaphysical.
One personal experience with God the Father Himself.
Also One personal experience with the Holy Spirit.
(no personal experience with Jesus ... yet)
There is a God. He created us. He probably used evolution to do so. IMHO

reply to post by LightningStrikesHere


You brought up proof of a divine creator not me

And of course you are entitled to your opinion

I'm glad life for you is good

Mine is quite groovy too.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I think you have mistaken me for the op

I have not asked a question, i simply quoted a question more than one child has asked me
to point out that this is a question without an answer

And i am playing nice so stop shouting please.

reply to post by LightningStrikesHere


but is everything a creation ?

reply to post by ignorant_ape


Probably more of a simulation if one subscribes to the Holographic Universe theory that seems to be gaining more credence and even some form of mathematical proof by the day.

en.wikipedia.org...

LightningStrikesHere

marvinhaartian
reply to post by LightningStrikesHere

 

but for me.proof of a divine creator is in "its" creations . I see it in the trees ,the clouds , THE EARTH . Again simply put something had to have created all of this .

And the most logical explanation is a giant invisible man who has bad anger manegment?

I am an Agnostic, simply because our knowledge is so limited we can't prove nor disprove how the universe came to be.
I don't believe in a bearded man sitting on clouds, I do tend to believe more in science......but if the universe started with a big bang, what was there before? If matter originated with the big bang, what was there instead of matter? Nothing? I just can't comprehend the concept of an empty massive space of nothing........apparently matter can only be the results of pre-existing matter, but what was pre-existing matter?

I do like the evolution theory but there are some questions there that nobody can answer, not even the best scientists, for example: how did 4 chromosomes (in apes) fuse to become 2 (us)? ( leaving them with 48 chromosomes and us with 46).

I don't believe in the creationists theory because, just like somebody said above, who created the creator?
But what about the intervention theory? If an advanced civilization tampered with our DNA to make us who we are, who tampered with theirs?

Dbl post

LightningStrikesHere

Idiosonic

LightningStrikesHere

marvinhaartian
reply to post by LightningStrikesHere

 

but for me.proof of a divine creator is in "its" creations . I see it in the trees ,the clouds , THE EARTH . Again simply put something had to have created all of this .



And the most logical explanation is a giant invisible man who has bad anger manegment?

Where is your logic behind this reply?
if that is the existent of your ability to think in depth about the existence of a Creator ,then i might not be able to share knowledge you would comprehend .

Here's a thought

Think of all the events in life , since the beginning of human existence , all the events that had to have taken place for you to quote my post? Events such as life and death of many people before you to bring you here and now .....Is this bad anger management ? Or is it necessary for future life?

And the most logical explanation is a giant invisible man who has bad anger manegment?

Where is your logic behind this reply?
if that is the existent of your ability to think in depth about the existence of a Creator ,then i might not be able to share knowledge you would comprehend .

Here's a thought

Think of all the events in life , since the beginning of human existence , all the events that had to have taken place for you to quote my post? Events such as life and death of many people before you to bring you here and now .....Is this bad anger management ? Or is it necessary for future life?