What Should America Do?

smithjustinb:

This greatest country in the world, America...

Here we go again, more infantile American mental immaturity. Just exactly on what basis do you claim America to be the greatest country in the world? On what consensus of criteria can this claim be considered fact? Before you answer, ensure you understand the questions I pose to you.

If you want to believe, as an American I assume you to be, that America is the greatest country, I'll grant you your opinion, but will disavow the claim as fact, and nothing more than subjective wishful thinking. In historical terms, your way down the league in greatness. America isn't even five centuries old, European countries have thousands of years of historical legacy, and it is on their giant shoulders modern America stands, and equally, those European countries stand on the shoulders of even older cultures.

My point is the immaturity of the claim of greatness, and Americans are perceived as being immature and pretty naive. What should America do? It is simple, it should do nothing, as it has no right or claim of right to do anything. Yes, it can go to war, any country can do that, but what it cannot do is dictate terms to other countries. What America needs to understand the significance of the term 'global community' is to have war waged on it's mainland soil. To have its cities and towns razed to rubble, its citizens lying dead and dying and maimed in the street, to suffer the consequences it has visited on other countries through its own ideology, because only then, only out of that struggle, can greatness be measured after the war (in loss or win) to rise again and rebuild itself having learned the mistakes of its immaturity.

reply to post by sparklez

For being in favour of non-proliferation there is a lot of proliferation of facism spreading and with regard to credibility, there is none. All the facists want is to get into NATO and grab as many weapons as they can from NATO and fight Russia or have NATO fight their war for them (that was stated by a member of the facists in Ukraine). Let's not kid ourselves, they ARE facists and have bad intentions for Ukraine, I honestly don't care whether they want independent, in the Eu or in Russia, the fact is, I DON'T WANT THESE CRAZY PEOPLE IN POWER and access to ARMS.

There you go again, getting your terms all confused. Fascism is a system in which the central government exists to funnel wealth to the capitalists. It uses police to enforce its power. Fascism usually allies itself with the Church in order to give it a moral gloss, but in fact this alliance chiefly serves to infringe individual rights. It is outwardly very conservative, but inwardly corrupt. This sounds like a perfect description of Putin's Russia, does it not?

DJW001
reply to post by sparklez

 

For being in favour of non-proliferation there is a lot of proliferation of facism spreading and with regard to credibility, there is none. All the facists want is to get into NATO and grab as many weapons as they can from NATO and fight Russia or have NATO fight their war for them (that was stated by a member of the facists in Ukraine). Let's not kid ourselves, they ARE facists and have bad intentions for Ukraine, I honestly don't care whether they want independent, in the Eu or in Russia, the fact is, I DON'T WANT THESE CRAZY PEOPLE IN POWER and access to ARMS.

There you go again, getting your terms all confused. Fascism is a system in which the central government exists to funnel wealth to the capitalists. It uses police to enforce its power. Fascism usually allies itself with the Church in order to give it a moral gloss, but in fact this alliance chiefly serves to infringe individual rights. It is outwardly very conservative, but inwardly corrupt. This sounds like a perfect description of Putin's Russia, does it not?

I see plenty of armed people enforcing their power in Kiev, I also see Oligarchs being moved into powerful positions.
I see them infringe the rights of multi national passport holders, they infringed the rights of the Crimean Tartar language by banning it, they infringed the rights of Russian language by banning it, they infringed the rights of multi nationals by punishing severely dual citizenships as illegal. They seek to bring back the death penalty (which means they will NEVER get into the European Union on that fact alone).

The thugs in power are not helping the Crimean Tartars that we all heard about being threatened, Russia however, in Crimea, restored the Crimean Tartar lanugauge and rights along with Ukranian and Russian rights in the region.

The thugs in power want to get arms to start attacking non pure Ukranians, they stated this was their reason to join NATO, to get ARMs and them to fight.

reply to post by sparklez


And what has any of that got to do with the USA?

It hasn't anything to do with the USA, or Europe, or any nation allied with them. The only people who should be responding to this, are the United Nations as a whole collective, and the only military response to the situation, should be undertaken by troops under the UN flag, and not the flag of any individual nation or member state. For one thing, Russia would have to think twice about messing with that, and for another thing, it is about time the UN actually started doing its job, of keeping waring factions away from one another and FORCING some sense into these situations.

They have been decidedly lax in this regard over the last decade or so, and such laziness on their part must end.

the new war's are currency and few country's can afford to print their way out of trouble and how many can point to IRAQ/ AFGANISTAN/ UKRAINE on the map ride this one out and leave it to the deputies for a change .

b] get a Potus with something in the trouser dept

The US Government should shut the hell up and ease off on the sulking like spoilt children because their transparent and illegal plans for Ukraine and the smear campaign against Russia, haven't been as successful as they'd have liked.

It's always a different story when the US Government decides to invade countries to install more US or EU friendly Governments or in others when to instigate, sponsor and facilitate coups all over the place for the same reasons isn't it - basically they should shut the hell up and realise they do not, and have never remotely occupied the moral high ground over this issue...not even close to a toe on the slope towards the high ground in fact.

The US and my Government, were very big on 'the people have a right to democratic self-determination' which of course, i'm sure most of would wholeheartedly agree with as a natural state of affairs...except that the democratic process was usurped, abandoned and condoned when the elected Ukrainian Government, corrupt or not, was violently ousted by a violent coup by fascists and then not condemned, not criticised, not sanctioned against by the West...but was and is being actually supported politically, financially and morally by the West.

Similarly, the sanctimonious speeches from our leaders over the 'right to self-determination' in the case of Crimea at least, also has curiously gone the way of the dodo and been dropped like a hot potato from the daily MSM propaganda and politicians' rhetoric since Crimea had one of the largest and most democratically impressive voter turnouts in history (a voter turnout that is only dreamt of in our countries).

Crimea voted in what was not only a landslide, but pretty much 'off the Richter scale' in terms of the democratic majority vote of pretty much everybody living in Crimea (NOT just the 60% ethnic Russians living there, but almost everyone living there) for independence from the Fascists holding on to the power they have seized by violence in Kiev, and to recognise a closer integration with the Russian Federation instead of a corrupt and violent regime in Kiev...but because that particular bit of 'right to self-determination' hasn't gone the way the US and EU would have liked it to go, despite the mind-blowing turnout and overwhelming vote in favour of self-determination by ALL Crimea, despite the teams of international observers monitoring the Crimean voting confirming it was above board and legitimately conducted, it's not recognised. What a surprise.

The support to the illegitimate Fascists in Kiev from the US Government is illegal and against US law.

To support and offer aid to a government that takes control of political power by ousting a sitting and democratically elected Government, which the previous Ukrainian Government was, using force and violence in a coup is against American law, and one that forbids the US Government to politically support or financially aid that illegitimate government, both of which they are doing of course.

But hey, since when did the US Government actually care about international or domestic law, except to use as a propaganda stick to use against others and to drum up support for yet more wars or regime changes?

Then again, the increasingly common 'do as i say and not as i do' brand of hypocritical politicians just can't seem to stop themselves i suppose.

I'm sure the US or any of the EU Governments wouldn't hold the same opinions, and be directing the same propaganda on the MSM, if being the legitimate and democratically elected Governments that they are, were themselves the ones that were ousted from power and hunted down in a violent coup in Washington DC or the streets of London or in continental Europe...in that case the language and rhetoric would be VERY different and most certainly would include words and phrases like dangerous, anti-democracy, anarchist terrorists and Fascists, illegally and violently revolted and so on...instead of what we hear from them over Ukraine which amounts to more or less 'protestors wishing to exercise their right to self-determination'.

They certainly wouldn't be throwing positive propaganda, money and political support towards the 'protestors' that would be kicking them out of elected office either...tanks, gunships and armed troops yes, seemingly blind fanatical support..no.

If all of Crimea and other significant sections of Ukraine virtually beg the Russian Federation for help with policing and protecting the more pro-Russian areas against violent and anti-democratic thugs that have illegally forced their way into political power, together with protecting significant Russian military assets in Ukraine, it's perfectly reasonable for Russia to offer that help and support its previously agreed upon military presence there IMO.

The US has done much more with much less legitimacy, as too arguably has my country the UK, over political hot potatoes like the Falkland Islands, off the Eastern tip of Argentina..which involved an actual British invasion force, to counter illegal and illegitimate political moves by the Argentine Government and the threat of violence directed towards the ethnic Britons living there. (who've only just voted to remain British ironically, depending on your POV).

So the US Government, having no moral highground and no legitimate interests in Ukraine should mind its own business and look towards sorting out its own democratic process and freedoms and its own people's 'right to self-determination' before sticking it's sticky beak yet again in the affairs of others that don't concern it.

Once upon a time, America minded its' own business only to see Europe, Asia, and Russia constantly create bloody wars.

If it wasn't for America, Nazis would be running most of the World right now.

The United States has learned that the majority of people, and Nations, on Earth can not take care of themselves.

What are we to sit back an believe that Europe, Russia, and Asia can take care of themselves as technology and the potency of weaponry advances? I don't think so.

The Americans played that game only to see the rest of the World drag us into their battles to save them.

A new game is being played. It's not a pretty, nor a fun game, but it must be played. Since WWII, the United States is doing its' due diligence to strengthen its' presence throughout the world.

And America has every country on Earth beat when it comes to Culture. American movies and songs are played all over the world, not vice versa.

Not to mention, American technology is 10-20+ years more advanced than any other nation on Earth.

The United States will continue to do what its' been called to do since the early 1900's. It will continue to do what the rest of the world has needed it to do. Europe and Asia has force America's hand. Now the United States will continue to ensure its' way of life is never threatened again.

If that means, proxy wars and toppling foreign governments then so be it. It's not goin to change. Even Putin said in his speech today that the West and American influences toppled the former Ukrainian government.

It is what it is and it is not changing anytime soon. The good ole USA will continue on its' path. Sure, a decision will backfire 20 years later every now and then but the immediate benefits can not be denied.

LooseLipsSinkShips
Once upon a time, America minded its' own business only to see Europe, Asia, and Russia constantly create bloody wars.

If it wasn't for America, Nazis would be running most of the World right now.

The United States has learned that the majority of people, and Nations, on Earth can not take care of themselves.

What are we to sit back an believe that Europe, Russia, and Asia can take care of themselves as technology and the potency of weaponry advances? I don't think so.

The Americans played that game only to see the rest of the World drag us into their battles to save them.

A new game is being played. It's not a pretty, nor a fun game, but it must be played. Since WWII, the United States is doing its' due diligence to strengthen its' presence throughout the world.

And America has every country on Earth beat when it comes to Culture. American movies and songs are played all over the world, not vice versa.

Not to mention, American technology is 10-20+ years more advanced than any other nation on Earth.

The United States will continue to do what its' been called to do since the early 1900's. It will continue to do what the rest of the world has needed it to do. Europe and Asia has force America's hand. Now the United States will continue to ensure its' way of life is never threatened again.

If that means, proxy wars and toppling foreign governments then so be it. It's not goin to change. Even Putin said in his speech today that the West and American influences toppled the former Ukrainian government.

It is what it is and it is not changing anytime soon. The good ole USA will continue on its' path. Sure, a decision will backfire 20 years later every now and then but the immediate benefits can not be denied.

I guess you missed Merkel's speech in Westminster in German then.

reply to post by LooseLipsSinkShips


I might not agree with much or nearly all what you wrote, but i will give you top marks for brutal honesty of opinion.

THAT i can and do respect - it's rare these days to hang your laundry out there for everyone to look at the encrusted stains..fair play to you for that at least.

LooseLipsSinkShips


If it wasn't for America, Nazis would be running most of the World right now.

Which fantasy world are you actually living in?

The same goes for the rest of your post also.

reply to post by LooseLipsSinkShips

It is what it is and it is not changing anytime soon. The good ole USA will continue on its' path. Sure, a decision will backfire 20 years later every now and then but the immediate benefits can not be denied.

Sorry, but what benefit's would those be? Who exactly has benefited from the last 10 or so years of war?

This is a no brainer; George Washington on his last address told the American people to stay out of foreign wars, now look at us, making the bankers all wealthy on account of performing democracy all over the world. Funny thing is most American's have Russian- Prussia heritage, a heritage, that former President Lincoln asked for assistance in his time. What needs to happen, is America for once needs to take care of its own unemployed, and outsourced country before we look closer to Brazil and not a super power.

Owe and anyone with a bit of education understands "MAD" right?


Mutually assured Destruction, again: a NO BRAINER:

alldaylong

LooseLipsSinkShips


If it wasn't for America, Nazis would be running most of the World right now.

Which fantasy world are you actually living in?

The same goes for the rest of your post also.

Are you denying that America's involvement led to the Nazis downfall?

kingsquirel
This is a no brainer; George Washington on his last address told the American people to stay out of foreign wars, now look at us, making the bankers all wealthy on account of performing democracy all over the world. Funny thing is most American's have Russian- Prussia heritage, a heritage, that former President Lincoln asked for assistance in his time. What needs to happen, is America for once needs to take care of its own unemployed, and outsourced country before we look closer to Brazil and not a super power.

Owe and anyone with a bit of education understands "MAD" right?


Mutually assured Destruction, again: a NO BRAINER:

Why would they do that? America wants the illegal immigration. Those illegal immigrants have some of the highest birth rates in the world. It increases America's tax base and lowers its' military age. Most European countries, and Japan, have low birth rates. The forces that exist in American government want poverty and they want unemployment. They want to ensure that its' people are dependent on them for their way of life. What better way to control them?

reply to post by LooseLipsSinkShips


Are you denying that you, like every other jingoistic, flag waving nationalist I have come across who has the same homeland, are incapable of preventing yourself from OVER stating the importance of the involvement of the US? Are you ignorant of the fact that your lot turned up late, and only after their own precious arses had been put on the line?

Do not try to make out that the USA had any motive beyond the covering of its own rear, in coming to war, late, to back up the already fearsome forces that had been aligned against the Nazis.

TiedDestructor
Honestly? Nothing...

Sorry, I meant to reply to the O.

LooseLipsSinkShips

alldaylong

LooseLipsSinkShips


If it wasn't for America, Nazis would be running most of the World right now.

Which fantasy world are you actually living in?

The same goes for the rest of your post also.

Are you denying that America's involvement led to the Nazis downfall?

Involvement. Yes

Only reason. No

smithjustinb
Hello everyone. I would like to take this opportunity to ask what you think America should do in response to the recent actions of Russia in the Ukraine.

This greatest country in the world, America seems to be losing its strength and fading out. Personally, I think we still can come back. What I think we need right now is patriotism and balls. The idea of going to war with Russia is a scary one. But I would rather fight a losing battle than to slowly fade away without doing anything. And I dont think war with Russia would necessarily be a losing battle.

Sanctions aren't enough. Russia has their own sanctions too. They are unaffected by our retaliation. I think we need to send them a stronger message. I think we need to do what they are doing. I think we need to occupy a Russian allied country, take all their oil, and transform their government into one led by the people of that area. I dont know exactly which country would fit this description, but I think thats what we need to do to get back on top where we belong as the greatest nation on earth.

How would Russia respond? They wont use nukes. That would be stupid. They might use other military options, though. But, if we do nothing, then we will be weak, and they will take over. As far as Im concerned, Russia has already made their first move. To me, it looks like a deliberate act of war. And so we need to nip this in the bud. I believe America is the greatest country in the world, and its time we started acting like it. With patriotism. If we do nothing, then we already lost. America is the world's last hope for a free world. Thats why it is important that we come out on top.

1. tell the Europeans that hit teams will go in and destroy the gas lines and keep destroying them if they don't commit to a unified front with military aid and support to Ukraine.

2. Tell the Russians that hit teams will go in and destroy the gas lines and keep destroying them if they don't pull out of the Crimea.

3. While this is being done, sanction all of Russia's commerce and banking to the west and collapse the Russian Ruble.

4. Allow the Ukraine admittance into NATO.

That would be a start.

I agree with Skinny Pete on his points...

EA006
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

Why does it all lead to "War" ?.
War, War, War.

You'd think we'd learn.......

I wish it didnt. But when you have people trying to take what doesnt belong to them, like your individual, basic human rights for starters, then are you just going to sit back and let them take away your spirit?

We have war because there are people that would go to great lengths to cause great harm for selfish reasons. War happens over conflicting ideals. Ideals are so deeply rooted in our collective mind, that wed rather die than to not achieve them. Thats my opinion.