Woman on 'Biblical Fast' Sues St. Vincent's Charity Medical Center

Okay .. this one is fully loaded for ATS fun ...

A 56 year old woman who is a 'spiritual author' went on a 'biblical fast'. She was on day 15 of only drinking water and not eating food, when she passed out in a public place, a gas station. (I sure hope she didn't drive herself there - but it looks like she did!). Medical personnel were called and she was transported to St. Vincents Charity Medical Center. At the medical center she was given IVs and medical care. When she regained consciousness, she was praying and speaking bible scriptures. The medical center immediately figured she had a mental health condition and eventually diagnosed her as "bipolar disorder with psychotic features." They tried to get her on medication. She refused. They held her for five days in their psychiatric ward. She continued to refuse the medication. The hospital tried to have her involuntarily committed through court order. That failed. She was released. Now she's suing the medical center that saved her life.

Natural News - Article that slants toward the 'spiritual author's side

Courthouse News .. just the facts

A self-published spiritual author sued a doctor and hospital, claiming she was involuntarily admitted to a psychiatric ward after becoming "confused and disoriented" on the 15th day of a "biblical fast," and that hospital staff misinterpreted her prayers as psychotic tendencies.

Jane Doe sued St. Vincent Charity Medical Center and Dr. Saraj Brar, in Cuyahoga County Court of Common Pleas. Doe, 56, describes herself in the complaint as "a Pentecostal Christian and a self-published author of books about God and spirituality." The lawsuit continues: "As part of her religious devotion, she periodically observes a biblical fast during which she abstains from all foods and consumes only water.

My thoughts -

- If the average person fasts on just water for 15+ days (we don't know how much longer her fast was supposed to be), then that person is just asking for trouble and is absolutely 'over the top' with their religious devotions. A buddhist monk living a secluded life on a mountaintop might be used to it and able to do it, but not the average American. IMHO.

- The medical center was correct in it's actions .. the woman was a threat to herself (and others if she was out driving around). She was weak to the point of passing out and she was delirious.

- At the same time, I can understand her not accepting the psychiatric medicines. I've been prescribed a bunch of different things over the years and I won't touch most of them. There is a lot of medicine out there that does more harm than good.

- BUT .. at the same time, some people DO need the psychiatric meds. This person one may be one of them.

- If someone is in their right mind and wants to go on a mega bible fast (at least 15 days of it), that's their choice. I am wondering if she was going on that 40 day water fast that I've heard about. I don't think it's smart. But it's their choice.

- If someone is fasting like that, they shouldn't be out driving around and they need a babysitter. When their brains start malfunctioning because of their fast ... and they WILL ... then someone in their right mind needs to be standing by to keep them from doing stupid things that might hurt others.

- This hospital saved the womans life ... a life she put in danger by her own actions. Now she's suing. Shame on her. She's suing because of the psychiatric hold they put on her. She's not suing because they saved her life. (but they DID)

- If someone wants to commit suicide, that's their right. I have no issue with that. But this woman wasn't intending on suicide or death even though her mega 'biblical fast' could have easily caused it.


Anyways, I thought this might be an interesting topic to discuss in the social issues forum.
Who should win the lawsuit .. the hospital or the woman.


My free advice to the woman ... eat healthy food and say your prayers in thanksgiving that you have it.
If you want to fast, then do so in moderation and take care of the body you were given.
Stop abusing it.
Be healthy and use that good health to teach others to 'love God and neighbor'. It'll do more good.
Drop your lawsuit. They saved your life. Move on. Learn from this. Be more careful. THINK.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Is it any wonder us religious peeps are branded nuts!!! What a totally stupid thing to do. There's fasting, and fasting!

I hope she doesn't win to be honest. All those peoples time she has wasted, and medical resources. Someone else could have benefited from that.

Silly woman.

reply to post by FlyersFan


If they hadn't have given her emergency care, they would have been sued as well.

damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I guess in her case there is a fine line between faith and mental illness. If she had true faith she would be thanking god someone saved her life. Instead she chose to take a hospital to court. I guess it's mental illness for the win. Love to see the judge toss it out of court. Way too many ridiculous and frivolous lawsuits lately.

I used google to look around and see what people were saying about this. Seems she has the spin machine working for her side of the law suit. The words used are that the medical center 'imprisoned her'. Yes, she was held without her permission. But she kinda put herself in that position by not eating anything for 15 days and then driving to a gas station and passing out. She was slowly killing herself and she could have crashed into others while she was out driving. It was irresponsible on her part.

Religion, by its nature, attracts some of the most deranged, unstable people.
Or I guess one could say the most vulnerable, fragile people.

I have heard of people being convicted for driving while they were
tired, this is the same thing, doing something that could knowingly
endanger others is something that has been fought out in court
before.

Did she really not care that she could have passed out at the wheel
and driven through a cross walk full of kids... But yeah sure she
isn't a danger to anyone.... ugh. If these people want respect for
their beliefs then their beliefs need to be worthy of respect....

bloodreviara
Did she really not care that she could have passed out at the wheel
and driven through a cross walk full of kids...

This is where I'll toss in some theology ... I spent ~ 20 years in Catholic Third Orders. First with the Franciscans and then with the Carmelites. One of the big things they teach is that you have to watch out for disordered spiritual pride. When people start reading their bibles and saying their prayers and preaching and doing extreme fasts/penance .. they have a very real danger of entering into spiritual pride when those things are done in excess. They think they are doing wonderful things and yet they are just damaging their own souls and bodies, and they turn others off to Christianity. In this case, with the extreme fasting, she put others in physical danger by driving around like that. (assuming she was driving. she called her mother for 'help' from a gas station).

BOTTOM LINE - she didn't think of others when she did this.
She was a danger to others and needed to be off the streets.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I can relate! I spent my 'formative years' in Catholic school. It was entertainment on a grand scale. My teachers, mostly nuns, ran the spectrum from wonderful, saintly people to total lunatics. There was an elderly nun who insisted that when the children entered the church building, they went straight to the holy water recepticle, dip their fingers in the water and then make the sign of the cross. She claimed the ritual 'chased the devil away'. She actually said she could see the devil approaching, then she saw him run away when she blessed herself with the holy water. I wonder what effect that story had on some of those 8 year-old minds!

reply to post by FlyersFan


For those that continue to think religion doesn't control people, this is a perfect example. Mind control in religion has caused people to kill, physically abuse their children, judge and condemn, carry out physically harmful rituals, refuse medical treatment for themselves and their children, justify wars and torture and condemns the use of birth control.

reply to post by FlyersFan


i guess you missed this.

On the last day of her fast, parked at a Cleveland, OH, BP gas station, the woman grew faint and called her mother for assistance.

so it was the last day of the fast. and she called for help herself. doesn't sound like she was a whack job to me.

that aside, once the hospital stabilized her and found out what she was doing and she called for help herself. they should have let her go making sure she was not driving. just because a doctor thinks your a nut for praying doesn't give him the right to involuntarily hospitalize you and interfere with your religious practice.

bet he wouldn't have done that to a muslim praying out loud to allah.

bi polar disorder is mostly related to severe manic depression i don't see how praying can be seen as being depressed. unless she was sitting there saying Lord just let me die or why did you save me. how can he say just after a few minutes or maybe hours she was bipolar. besides if he is a medical doctor that doesn't have the training that a psychiatrist has to make a diagnosis of this he should called one.

here are just a few steps for diagnosing pi polar disorder.

To diagnose bipolar disorder, the health care provider may do some or all of the following:
Ask whether other family members have bipolar disorder.
Ask about your recent mood swings and for how long you have had them.
Perform a thorough exam and order lab tests to look for other illnesses that may be causing the symptoms that resemble bipolar disorder.
Talk to family members about your symptoms and overall health.
Ask about any health problems you have and any medications you take.
Watch your behavior and mood.
Manic depression; Bipolar affective disorder

all we have from the story is she was praying and he based on that and she was fasting, and fainted, said she was bi polar.

there are some things that may have fit in the symptoms list, but if applied as a whole there's no way he should have come up with that.

hounddoghowlie
i guess you missed this.

I saw that. It says it was the last day of her fast, but it doesn't say it was the last day she intended to fast. So I'm not sure. She may have intended to go longer ... or not. But it was the last day she was able to fast because of the intervention.

she called for help herself. doesn't sound like she was a whack job to me.

Most 'Whack-jobs' are capable of picking up a phone and making a phone call.

I am of the opinion that she's, at the very least, irresponsible and over-zealous. She has a right to be over-zealous and destroy her own health, but she hasn't got the right to drive around town and take out other people in her quest for self starvation. As for her being mentally ill ... I couldn't say.

just because a doctor thinks your a nut for praying doesn't give him the right to involuntarily hospitalize you and interfere with your religious practice.

There was more behavior than 'just praying' going on ... you know that. Starving yourself for two + weeks .. to the point that you are out driving in town and pass out ... that's not a healthy behavior. It's not healthy for the person doing it. It's not healthy for the others in town who she could have run over with her car. So it's not just 'praying' that got her in the mental ward.

here are just a few steps for diagnosing pi polar disorder.

I have a degree in psychology so I understand bi polar disorder. We weren't there and so we don't know what kind of behaviors they did, or did not, observe.

reply to post by FlyersFan

I am wondering if she was going on that 40 day water fast that I've heard about.

This is what I first thought of when reading the OP. If she was in fact trying to do as Jesus did, she would have done well to understand that;

1. He was 30 and that she was 56.

2. He was a carpenter is excellent physical condition and that she's an author of books, not exactly physically demanding work.

3. He was used to doing fasts under Jewish tradition which may have been stricter than hers.

4. At the end of Jesus 40 day fast, he was ministered to by angels which says even he was in need of some powerful aid.

Looks like she missed the part in scripture that says "all things in moderation". Suing the hospital clearly shows that her heart is not in the right place as they saw a problem and took action. Right or wrong, they were at least trying to help a person that they felt was not mentally stable.

At worst the lady is not fully stable and at best misguided if not both.

FlyersFan

hounddoghowlie
i guess you missed this.

I saw that. It says it was the last day of her fast, but it doesn't say it was the last day she intended to fast. So I'm not sure. She may have intended to go longer ... or not. But it was the last day she was able to fast because of the intervention.

she called for help herself. doesn't sound like she was a whack job to me.

Most 'Whack-jobs' are capable of picking up a phone and making a phone call.

I am of the opinion that she's, at the very least, irresponsible and over-zealous. She has a right to be over-zealous and destroy her own health, but she hasn't got the right to drive around town and take out other people in her quest for self starvation. As for her being mentally ill ... I couldn't say.

just because a doctor thinks your a nut for praying doesn't give him the right to involuntarily hospitalize you and interfere with your religious practice.

There was more behavior than 'just praying' going on ... you know that. Starving yourself for two + weeks .. to the point that you are out driving in town and pass out ... that's not a healthy behavior. It's not healthy for the person doing it. It's not healthy for the others in town who she could have run over with her car. So it's not just 'praying' that got her in the mental ward.

here are just a few steps for diagnosing pi polar disorder.

I have a degree in psychology so I understand bi polar disorder. We weren't there and so we don't know what kind of behaviors they did, or did not, observe.

i'll give you the first two. expect that a whack job if they are trying to hurt themselves or others are not calling for help

but on the last two, contrary to what some people believe , ignorance or religious belief is not a mental disorder. she may not have known what was going to happen, she may have done it before with no problems. most people that fast don't just go at it nilly willy, they find out what the best practices are and follow them.

there are plenty of examples of people fasting longer than 15 days and not having any ill effects from doing it.
and then there's this.
Is Fasting Healthy? Fasting has been practiced for centuries. But can it really help you lose weight and get healthier?

now read the whole thing, there is debate. the above article doesn't talk about the benefits until the second page. and it also mentions spiritual and religious fasting.

So it's not just 'praying' that got her in the mental ward.

We weren't there and so we don't know what kind of behaviors they did, or did not, observe.

well apparently after the court court got the hospital records. they found no reason to hold her and ordered her release, and agreed with her.
that is the more telling part to me.

her claims.

Doe claims that while she was at the hospital, "Dr. Brar and other St. Vincent's staff characterized Doe's religious devotion as evidence of mental instability, making repeated references to her 'religious preoccupation' and noting Doe's Bible reading and audible praying as evidence [of] mental illness."

if the doctor didn't base his diagnoses on that, why hold the record until the day before the hearing.

hounddoghowlie
ignorance or religious belief is not a mental disorder. she may not have known what was going to happen,

Sure.

there are plenty of examples of people fasting longer than 15 days and not having any ill effects from doing it.

Maybe. But obviously with her it's not the case.

Like I said in the opening ... I understand why they thought she had problems. But I also understand why she'd not accept the mental health drugs. She did something that wasn't too bright and that put others at risk, therefore others got involved. I'm sure if she had stayed off the roads and had a babysitter for her extreme fast, none of this would have happened.

She, and the medical facility, should learn from this and move on - IMHO

reply to post by FlyersFan

She did something that wasn't too bright and that put others at risk, therefore others got involved.

yes she did, but it was a call from her that started the involvement of of the others. ie she knew something was wrong.
if that's not taking responsibility for safety of others and herself or her actions i don't know what is.

and i'm sure her mother, came down, wouldn't you move heaven and earth if your daughter called saying she felt she needed medical help. even if she couldn't be at the scene, i bet she was in the er waiting room. ready to take her home. besides her car was at the BP.
she couldn't have driven off on her on. ( i base that on the the fact that they say she was escorted to the er)

nope the doctor was showing his prejudiced, and going to make a example of someone just because he could, or thought he could.imnsho

She, and the medical facility, should learn from this and move on - IMHO

well i think ol doc is gonna learn a expensive one, her too, say away from hospitals if at all possible.imnsho

If done properly with plenty of preparing your body for fast, there shouldn't be side effects other than hunger. It's well within a persons rights to go on a fast for whatever reason. The hospital was correct for admitting her to a psych ward to evaluate her because she probably was delirious and obviously had nothing about fasting written into her medical chart. She should understand the risks involved in fasting and take precautions to not be a harm to others during fasts, it should be in her medical history as well.

Doctors are legally mandated to treat a person unless a person's religious beliefs are documented regarding medical care. She didn't take care to ensure that her medical wishes were known so no, the lawsuit will be thrown out. The hospital did what it is legally required to do.

reply to post by Kali74

A good common sense approach.
Both parties should learn from this and move on.
The lawsuit is a bit much. IMHO

Clowns**t crazy woman... what an ingrate. I almost wish she wasn't discovered. I can guarantee you that 'sky daddy' would not have intervened and saved her. Medical personnel did, however. This is where science trumps religion.

It's also funny how she's suing them. Her type will preach forgiveness every day and night, until an irresistible opportunity presents itself.