The Daily Beast: Russian Commandos Invade Ukraine

I am not liking how this is looking.
The rattle of sabers is getting too loud.

n 1979 the Soviet Union was able to take over Afghanistan with less than 700 Spetsnaz units. These same operatives are now spreading out over Ukraine, according to U.S. officials who spoke to The Daily Beast on condition of anonymity. One of these officials stressed that while U.S. intelligence assesses there are more Spetsnaz forces surging into Ukraine, there is no reliable number on how many are inside the country and ultimately whether their presence is a prelude to a more formal invasion.

Meanwhile, reports continue of "unknown armed men" kidnapping Ukrainian civil society activists, and even anti-Russian activities are suspected as “false flag” operations by Putin’s operatives. Saturday afternoon, an Orthodox priest, Nikolai Kvich, was reportedly kidnapped as he conducted a service in his church in Sevastopol church. At about 8 p.m. dozens of masked men stormed the Moskva Hotel in the Crimean capital of Symferopol. The hotel's visitors were told to stay in their rooms while the men armed with machine guns raided the hotel.

@The Daily Beast

reply to post by HarbingerOfShadows


Must have found a hole in the red line. I see china making its move in the south china sea within 2 weeks after witnessing the ease at which Putin took Ukraine. Not sure what thee solution should be, but the outcomes leave me fearing the worse especially for my family there in the Philippines.



Our sword is broken, america has no moral, no patriotism, and no leader.

reply to post by Shaiker


We haven't had a "leader" in years.
Just political parties, self serving, and thus divided loyalties.

But this whole thing....

*sighs*..........

"Weep the future Na'Toth. Weep for us all." -G'Kar Babylon 5

This song keeps springing to my mind.

I need some more proof. DB has one photo of some guys in ski masks in an unknown stairwell. And they're in front of a bunch of news cameras, which doesn't exactly look like a secret operation.

Guys, do you really believe this article?

reply to post by HarbingerOfShadows


I remember that song it seems so long ago from a different world and time, but your right it makes the skin crawl up my back.

Snsoc
I need some more proof. DB has one photo of some guys in ski masks in an unknown stairwell. And they're in front of a bunch of news cameras, which doesn't exactly look like a secret operation.

I am afraid it doesn't matter if its real or not its on the majority of news providers now if they report on it then the masses believe its true whether it be or not. Why make the masses believe it unless your shoring up support for an action. Either way real or not these reports add tension to the twine that unravels.

reply to post by Etherguide


I consider everything.
I don't necessarily believe anything.

I also acknowledge the strong likelyhood that there is a propaganda war raging.
On both sides part.

Ah, anonymous sources again, they always have plenty to say but we are not allowed to know who they are!

To be honest, despite all the shouting from Obama, Kerry, Cameron and other idiots - including the new Ukrainian "government" - as far as invasions go, this really is a bit of a damp squib! Where are the tank battalions motoring across the plains crushing all before them? Where are targeted strikes taking out any defences? Where are thousands of troops swarming across the country?

See, just because they tell us it is so, doesn't mean it is correct, something I thought people would have figured out long before now, given all the previous lies to justify wars and death to those unwilling to bow to the almighty Dollar and a privately run central bank.

reply to post by Britguy


Maybe because doing it that way would obligate a strong possibly military response?
Also known as World War 3.

reply to post by HarbingerOfShadows

reports continue of "unknown armed men" kidnapping Ukrainian civil society activists

First it's the Daily Beast, second if it is happening I guess this is the kind of thing to expect if you let a bunch of NeoNazi Ukrainians backed by western NeoCon NGO's take over your country by coup.

At this point the propaganda and disinformation is flying in every direction.

Bassago
reply to post by HarbingerOfShadows

 

reports continue of "unknown armed men" kidnapping Ukrainian civil society activists

First it's the Daily Beast, second if it is happening I guess this is the kind of thing to expect if you let a bunch of NeoNazi Ukrainians backed by western NeoCon NGO's take over your country by coup.

At this point the propaganda and disinformation is flying in every direction.

First, I don't dismiss information out of hand, regardless of source.
Even the most unreliable of sources get things right every once and a while.
In part or in whole.

Secondly, your position that I highlighted depends on accepting one side's information as fact.
Which in a way, fits into the first part of this response.

reply to post by HarbingerOfShadows

First, I don't dismiss information out of hand, regardless of source. Even the most unreliable of sources get things right every once and a while. In part or in whole.

Secondly, your position that I highlighted depends on accepting one side's information as fact. Which in a way, fits into the first part of this response.

To the first point I simply prefer verified information. Not stories of unknowns that can be manipulated by the western MSM or local politicians.

On the second, the Ukrainians "new" government does contain NeoNazis. It was a coup backed by NeoCons (like Victoria Nuland) and western NGO's backed by folks like George Soros. Those are facts you can easily look up yourself. I've already stated them in other threads on this subject.

reply to post by Bassago


Then by all means, present that information.

reply to post by HarbingerOfShadows


The Russian and KGB normally keep tabs on everyone that can be a pest. In one day they can sweep all the dissidents and execute them. This is what they help the VC do in Vietnam.

HarbingerOfShadows
I am not liking how this is looking.
The rattle of sabers is getting too loud.

n 1979 the Soviet Union was able to take over Afghanistan with less than 700 Spetsnaz units. These same operatives are now spreading out over Ukraine, according to U.S. officials who spoke to The Daily Beast on condition of anonymity. One of these officials stressed that while U.S. intelligence assesses there are more Spetsnaz forces surging into Ukraine, there is no reliable number on how many are inside the country and ultimately whether their presence is a prelude to a more formal invasion.

Meanwhile, reports continue of "unknown armed men" kidnapping Ukrainian civil society activists, and even anti-Russian activities are suspected as “false flag” operations by Putin’s operatives. Saturday afternoon, an Orthodox priest, Nikolai Kvich, was reportedly kidnapped as he conducted a service in his church in Sevastopol church. At about 8 p.m. dozens of masked men stormed the Moskva Hotel in the Crimean capital of Symferopol. The hotel's visitors were told to stay in their rooms while the men armed with machine guns raided the hotel.

@The Daily Beast

edit on 15-3-2014 by HarbingerOfShadows because: Proofreading fail! Yay me! *groan*

Are you kidding me?
I call B.S. The Soviet Union got their ass handed to them in Afghanistan, and eventually pulled out and went home. Same reason we're pulling out of Afghanistan. Too many mountains and caves. Maybe I'm wrong but my memory tells me this.

" The Soviet public used to know very little about their country's special forces until many state secrets were disclosed under the glasnost ("openness") policy of Mikhail Gorbachev during the late 1980s. Since then, stories about spetsnaz and their supposedly incredible prowess, from the serious to the highly questionable, have captivated the imagination of patriotic Russians, particularly in the background of the decay in military and security forces during perestroika and the post-Soviet era."en.wikipedia.org...

"The initial Soviet deployment of the 40th Army in Afghanistan began on December 24, 1979, under Soviet leader Leonid Brezhnev.[27] The final troop withdrawal started on May 15, 1988, and ended on February 15, 1989, under the last Soviet leader, Mikhail Gorbachev. Due to the interminable nature of the war, the conflict in Afghanistan has sometimes been referred to as the "Soviet Union's Vietnam War" or the "Bear Trap".[28][29][30]"
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by AreUKiddingMe


Uhm......
From your own source sir.

On December 27, 1979, 700 Soviet troops dressed in Afghan uniforms, including KGB and GRU special forces officers from the Alpha Group and Zenith Group, occupied major governmental, military and media buildings in Kabul, including their primary target – the Tajbeg Presidential Palace.

That operation began at 19:00 hr., when the KGB-led Soviet Zenith Group destroyed Kabul's communications hub, paralyzing Afghan military command. At 19:15, the assault on Tajbeg Palace began; as planned, president Hafizullah Amin was killed. Simultaneously, other objectives were occupied (e.g., the Ministry of Interior at 19:15). The operation was fully complete by the morning of December 28, 1979.

The Soviet military command at Termez, Uzbek SSR, announced on Radio Kabul that Afghanistan had been liberated from Amin's rule. According to the Soviet Politburo they were complying with the 1978 Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation and Good Neighborliness and Amin had been "executed by a tribunal for his crimes" by the Afghan Revolutionary Central Committee. That committee then elected as head of government former Deputy Prime Minister Babrak Karmal, who had been demoted to the relatively insignificant post of ambassador to Czechoslovakia following the Khalq takeover, and that it had requested Soviet military assistance.[67]

Soviet ground forces, under the command of Marshal Sergei Sokolov, entered Afghanistan from the north on December 27. In the morning, the 103rd Guards 'Vitebsk' Airborne Division landed at the airport at Bagram and the deployment of Soviet troops in Afghanistan was underway. The force that entered Afghanistan, in addition to the 103rd Guards Airborne Division, was under command of the 40th Army and consisted of the 108th and 5th Guards Motor Rifle Divisions, the 860th Separate Motor Rifle Regiment, the 56th Separate Airborne Assault Brigade, the 36th Mixed Air Corps. Later on the 201st and 58th Motor Rifle Divisions also entered the country, along with other smaller units.[68] In all, the initial Soviet force was around 1,800 tanks, 80,000 soldiers and 2,000 AFVs. In the second week alone, Soviet aircraft had made a total of 4,000 flights into Kabul.[69] With the arrival of the two later divisions, the total Soviet force rose to over 100,000 personnel.

And.

December 1979 – February 1980: Occupation

The first phase began with the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan and their first battles with various opposition groups.[70] Soviet troops entered Afghanistan along two ground routes and one air corridor, quickly taking control of the major urban centers, military bases and strategic installations. However, the presence of Soviet troops did not have the desired effect of pacifying the country. On the contrary, it exacerbated a nationalistic feeling, causing the rebellion to spread further.[72] Babrak Karmal, Afghanistan's new president, charged the Soviets with causing an increase in the unrest, and demanded that the 40th Army step in and quell the rebellion, as his own army had proved untrustworthy.[73] Thus, Soviet troops found themselves drawn into fighting against urban uprisings, tribal armies (called lashkar), and sometimes against mutinying Afghan Army units. These forces mostly fought in the open, and Soviet airpower and artillery made short work of them.[74]

March 1980 – April 1985: Soviet offensives

A mujahideen fighter in Kunar uses a communications receiver.
The war now developed into a new pattern: the Soviets occupied the cities and main axis of communication, while the mujahideen, (which the Soviet Army soldiers called 'Dushman,' meaning 'enemy')[75] divided into small groups, waged a guerrilla war. Almost 80 percent of the country escaped government control.[76] Soviet troops were deployed in strategic areas in the northeast, especially along the road from Termez to Kabul. In the west, a strong Soviet presence was maintained to counter Iranian influence. Incidentally, special Soviet units would have[clarification needed] also performed secret attacks on Iranian territory to destroy suspected mujahideen bases, and their helicopters then got engaged in shootings with Iranian jets.[77] Conversely, some regions such as Nuristan, in the northeast, and Hazarajat, in the central mountains of Afghanistan, were virtually untouched by the fighting, and lived in almost complete independence.





Mujahideen with two captured artillery field guns in Jaji, 1984.
Periodically the Soviet Army undertook multi-divisional offensives into mujahideen-controlled areas. Between 1980 and 1985, nine offensives were launched into the strategically important Panjshir Valley, but government control of the area did not improve.[78] Heavy fighting also occurred in the provinces neighbouring Pakistan, where cities and government outposts were constantly under siege by the mujahideen. Massive Soviet operations would regularly break these sieges, but the mujahideen would return as soon as the Soviets left.[28] In the west and south, fighting was more sporadic, except in the cities of Herat and Kandahar, that were always partly controlled by the resistance.[79]

The Soviets did not, at first, foresee taking on such an active role in fighting the rebels and attempted to play down their role there as giving light assistance to the Afghan army. However, the arrival of the Soviets had the opposite effect as it incensed instead of pacified the people, causing the mujahideen to gain in strength and numbers.[80] Originally the Soviets thought that their forces would strengthen the backbone of the Afghan army and provide assistance by securing major cities, lines of communication and transportation.[81] The Afghan army forces had a high desertion rate and were loath to fight, especially since the Soviet forces pushed them into infantry roles while they manned the armored vehicles and artillery. The main reason though that the Afghan soldiers were so ineffective was their lack of morale as many of them were not truly loyal to the communist government but simply collecting a paycheck. Once it became apparent that the Soviets would have to get their hands dirty, they followed three main strategies aimed at quelling the uprising.[82] Intimidation was the first strategy, in which the Soviets would use airborne attacks as well as armored ground attacks to destroy villages, livestock and crops in trouble areas. The Soviets would bomb villages that were near sites of guerilla attacks on Soviet convoys or known to support resistance groups. Local peoples were forced to either flee their homes or die as daily Soviet attacks made it impossible to live in these areas. By forcing the people of Afghanistan to flee their homes, the Soviets hoped to deprive the guerillas of resources and safe havens. The second strategy consisted of subversion which entailed sending spies to join resistance groups and report information as well as bribing local tribes or guerilla leaders into ceasing operations. Finally, the Soviets used military forays into contested territories in an effort to root out the guerillas and limit their options. Classic search and destroy operations were implemented using Mil Mi-24 helicopter gunships that would provide cover for ground forces in armored vehicles.





The Afghan village left in ruins after being destroyed by Soviet forces.
To complement their brute force approach to weeding out the insurgency, the Soviets used KHAD (Afghan secret police) to gather intelligence, infiltrate the mujahideen, spread false information, bribe tribal militias into fighting and organize a government militia. While it is impossible to know exactly how successful the KHAD was in infiltrating mujahideen groups, it is thought that they succeeded in penetrating a good many resistance groups based in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran.[83] KHAD is thought to have had particular success in igniting internal rivalries and political divisions amongst the resistance groups, rendering some of them completely useless because of infighting.[84] The KHAD had some success in securing tribal loyalties but many of these relationships were fickle and temporary. Often KHAD secured neutrality agreements rather than committed political alignment.[85] The Sarandoy, a KHAD controlled government militia, had mixed success in the war. Large salaries and proper weapons attracted a good number of recruits to the cause, even if they were not necessarily "pro-communist". The problem was that many of the recruits they attracted were in fact mujahideen who would join up to procure arms, ammunition and money while also gathering information about forthcoming military operations.[84]

In 1985, the size of the LCOSF (Limited Contingent of Soviet Forces) was increased to 108,800 and fighting increased throughout the country, making 1985 the bloodiest year of the war. However, despite suffering heavily, the mujahideen were able to remain in the field, mostly because they received thousands of new volunteers daily, and continue resisting the Soviets.

Source@Wikipedia

reply to post by HarbingerOfShadows


Without reading the whole bit, I did scan over it and taking some buildings in Kabul is quite a stretch from taking over the whole country of Afghanistan. Quite a stretch indeed. The Soviet Union was bogged down for years in Afghanistan and never achieved their objective.

I could throw a suckerpunch at someone and have them gasping for air, but when they catch their breath it is on. It wouldn't be fair for me to say I kicked their ass because I threw a suckerpunch.

reply to post by AreUKiddingMe


It says CLEARLY in your source.
The intial use of Spetsnaz WAS successful and they did take over the country at first.
Doesn't mean Russia ultimately won.
The article does not claim they ultimately won.....

Not sure where you're getting the idea that the article says that.

he Soviet Union was able to take over Afghanistan with less than 700 Spetsnaz units.

And they did, as your source shows.
But they didn't keep it and were pushed out.

Here, if you want to dig for discrepency, they said less than 700.
Your source says 700.

reply to post by HarbingerOfShadows


I think we're straying too far off-topic and so I'm not going to say anything further. Read the article. If you need to have the last word it's yours. You're not being accurate in what you're saying about my source, however. I could point it out to you but it's not worth the time. So let's try to guide this thread back to the subject at hand, which is Ukraine.

reply to post by AreUKiddingMe


How am I not being accurate exactly?
If you're going to make a claim do at least make an attempt to back it up.
Otherwise. Don't make it.

And it is quite germaine as you are questioning the validity of the article.
And have thus far failed to substantiate, well, anything.
This thread is about Spetsnatz being in play in the Crimea in the Ukraine, not just about Ukraine it's self.