How would you correct a 20 year old child for this?

reply to post by whyamIhere


Why am I here...it's the whole 'might makes right' thing, in domestic action.

The species has been inculcated, taught persistently and repeatedly, that 'might makes right'.

My house, my rules. Never mind wholesale spiritual plunder, and I speak from a knowing position.

JP...if this were a concentrated agents of euphoria situation, I would confront sternly, ending with, if needed, 'I don't know you'.

I would bash my head against powders to the point of performing magic.
Because powders take over the head, regardless of 'right' or 'wrong' being, of neural paths being grown in the head.

Sure, sure, lot's of professional persons use powders, and to near perfection. But these are pros, and though they will become sick with discontinuance of use, or even the thought of it, at least they are doing something to excellence, even if it may be 'evil' to the root of their vocation....so many of them pay for it twice. Money is never an object to this steamroller of a high, on tap. Some can afford it all day long for the remainder of their lives.

In a powder situation, with a kid, who is highly formative, and worth altering, I would take only a sample, for analysis.

Smack can kill, easily. Careful with contraband seizure, and subsequent withdrawls. They're just going to get some more.
Paradoxically, the better one becomes at sourcing, the more dangerous it can be. When you show them what's in it, it will strengthen your position. It is a hard road.

They will need a hand to stay balanced, focused. If you can demonstrate that a natural euphoria is better than one that is induced, then now is the time.

In the green situation, you sit down and have a smoke (tobacco is an excellent nootropic) and perhaps the most meaningful talk you've ever had. Or not. This is an embarrassing moment that shouldn't have happened. Since you are you, it will be awkward, sort of like that 'sex 'talk'.

# 212

reply to post by Grimpachi


I get it.

I would of sat down with him and had a discussion.

If I would of found something like Meth. I could see this reaction.

But for a little weed? This is a different era. It's nothing.

I am not saying there are no consequences for his action.

I am just saying I would not of handled it that way.

JohnPhoenix

benrl


Put in those terms, your already being way to lenient on him as is, give him a warning the loss of the drugs is getting off lite, next time its a report to his PO.

Gee. and here I thought I was heartless. No can do - that will land him back in jail which no one wants or needs.

*********

No, not Heartless, I just have a Back bone.

There are pre-established rules in the house.

One of which, is please don't violate the LAW. (a rather simple, and in every rental contract a reason to terminate the lease)

YOU as a home owner, or persone responsible for letting him stay, ARE NOW ASSUMING LEGAL culpability for his actions.

IE: Cops raid your house, they don't care whose drugs.
OR, He goes out, harms someone, you where aware of the risk, ETC.

There are legal ramifications beyond his own PO to his actions, all your are asking him is not even NOT do do something, SImply not to do it in your house.

FOR me, that above would be the line, HE DOES not respect you or your wife enough to honor that one request, and with how you responded to my suggestion I can clearly see why he may lack respect for you.

LOVE and Respect are two different things, and not mutually exclusive of each other, HE may love his mom, but he clearly doesn't respect you or your household.

AND hes a damn adult, start treating him like one, before he gets into worst trouble due to the lax nature you treat this.

reply to post by whyamIhere



I do think this was a wasted opportunity for a conversation but not every family can sit down and have a conversation like that especially if the person is 20 something and not willing. So it is the home owners discretion.

As far as the importance on what the drug is I believe that is also at the homeowners discretion. Illegal is illegal in the eyes of the law, and it can be the same for the persons whose roof your under as well. There should be no expectation of the person helping you to change their views to suit you.

The OP can still have that talk if he wishes, and he may if he wishes maybe he just wants some time to pass and possible tempers to settle. Not all homes or families are the same. Then again he may just want to not have to deal with it. His discretion.

You can ask 100 different people how they would handle it or how serious it should be considered, and you may get 100 different takes. The consensus may vary from state to state as well.

To me at least the fact he had $100 worth of something while increasing my bills at the same time would have burned me up. $100 isn't much, but it would have been $100 closer to living on his own.

whyamIhere
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

I get it.

I would of sat down with him and had a discussion.

If I would of found something like Meth. I could see this reaction.

But for a little weed? This is a different era. It's nothing.

I am not saying there are no consequences for his action.

I am just saying I would not of handled it that way.

I agree completely, EXCEPT FOR ONE THING.

He is already in trouble with the law, and as apart of his sentencing he must not do it.

IF he does, he can have the light sentencing he had revoked.

It really is that simple, its not about the act itself, its about the consequences to THIS PERSON for this act in his situation.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


So your wife chose to lie and you chose the passive-aggressive say nothing approach? No wonder you have a 20 year old child on your hands...

I dont get why you both didnt say anything about it??? Makes no sense at all... Why deny knowing about it and destroying it? Makes you look more guilty than him. I would think you took it for yourselves.

I would just have a heart to heart with him and say, look son, I know your all fluoridated and whacked out from the TV and not thinking straight, but wait to smoke until after your actually off probation! Stay away from those thugs in blue, and drink some non-fluoridated water and go read a book or go outside and enjoy the wilderness!

I dont know if that was the "drugs" you were refering too but I could only imagine so.

my .26 cents


EDIT: Sorry I didnt read through the thread,and just replied after reading the OP...but have read through it now.

Seriously, I think like Why am I here is saying... give the kid some guidance, not a trash bin... get him some hobbies or something, take him fishin or whatever... I realize hes not "your" kid, but why neglect him? and especially since he isnt your kid, you can try to approach it more as a friend and look out for him in the long run to stay out of jail... my stepdad did that kind of thing for me and worked well...

Unity_99
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

There is no age I would ever do that to my child. Love is what is lacking here...

You do not ever do tough love or adopt the world's values. you don't follow but show the way. And due to this, we have all sorts of problems this world gives to people in our family, but love people, have not this level of problems, communicate fully, don't have the same house rules, even have someone who was homeless living with us. Take crapola at times, err on the side of love, never ever the other way.

Would never live with any man who was on a different page than that. Because saving the kids is NUMBER ONE RESPONSIBILITY.

I have seen the results of what you are talking about, and not giving tough love when needed is not love at all. I saw my grandmother "love" my uncle to destruction. Lack of discipline and rules is not love at all. Sometimes you have to make hard choices because you love the child, because you know that letting them experience the consequences of their actions is what is best for them. You can't save someone who doesn't think they need saving.

whyamIhere
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

Did it belong to you?

Don't get upset...you ask, I just gave my opinion.

You can tell yourself any justification for taking his property.

Sounds like you don't want the kid around...It really does.

Yes, it belonged to Me. He agreed with me months ago that if he brought drugs into my house and I found them, they would become my property, that I had the right to confiscate them. It was part of the conditions of him staying here. Now, will you shut up about it already?

If I didn't want the kid around I'd have kicked him out the moment he got out of jail. Remember, he came to my state from another after being separated from his mom for half his life - he was running from trouble then.. he got caught shoplifting in a Georgia wal-mart. He wasn't here with us in Louisiana two months before he gets busted and goes to jail. Believe me, If i didnt want the kid around, i'l had plenty of chances to kick him out. I'm thinking of whats best for him and his moms relationship - Jail is not an option, nor is me kicking him out.

SilverStarGazer
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

So your wife chose to lie and you chose the passive-aggressive say nothing approach? No wonder you have a 20 year old child on your hands...

Like I said before.. I was never asked about it by him. He has no idea I know anything. He's not my kid and I'm not the disciplinarian, the wife is - she makes all decisions on his punishments normally unless he breaks a house rules and then we normally discuss how to approach the kid about the issues. I certainly was not going to volunteer any information to him unless the wife and I were in agreement. I had no idea she was going to lie about it. But you see, since she did, I'm in a hard place.

Everyone seems to forget that her son that was taken from her as a child (kidnapped) and she just now is getting him back. They do not know each other at all yet. I have to do what i think is right and yet do no harm to that fragile relationship. I dont want to see my wife cry herself to sleep every night for another 10 years because her son is gone again.

I didn't choose a passive-aggressive approach - I haven't decided what i'm going to do yet - Hence this thread for opinions.

JohnPhoenix

whyamIhere
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

Did it belong to you?

Don't get upset...you ask, I just gave my opinion.

You can tell yourself any justification for taking his property.

Sounds like you don't want the kid around...It really does.

Yes, it belonged to Me. He agreed with me months ago that if he brought drugs into my house and I found them, they would become my property, that I had the right to confiscate them. It was part of the conditions of him staying here. Now, will you shut up about it already?

Never mind...

Why didn't you just say you wanted only replies that agree with you?

Yes, it belonged to Me. He agreed with me months ago that if he brought drugs into my house and I found them, they would become my property, that I had the right to confiscate them

Why didn't you just say that in the OP?....because you just made it up?

Now you get mad and tell me to shut up? Well I was holding back. So, if you want to be a Richard.

Why don't we just tell the truth...

You don't want the kid there. He is not your's and you are looking for a reason to get him off your couch.

He reminds you of your Ex's past. You can't deal with it. You are looking for any reason.

You don't care about this kid or you would try to help him.

So you are just looking for a reason. Any reason

So the kid slips up and brings a little weed in your house. How dare him. My house, My rules.

Who do you think you are fooling. The kid needs to get out of there.

Because having to rely on somebody that hates him. Is no way to live.

Get over yourself. You are wrong to steal his property. That's what you did

All the excuse making in the world doesn't change the fact.

You just don't want him there....He knows it.

Sounds like he needs something productive, what about insisting he take some classes at the local community college or do some volunteer work until he can find a job?
I understand your reasoning for not wanting to kick him out. Just be careful. There needs to be some sort of consequences.

reply to post by whyamIhere

Gee, your funny. I'll just ignore you from now on cus you haven't got a clue.. everyone else knows it too.

reply to post by calstorm


He does have a job. He works 6 days a week from 8 to 5 pm. He hasn't screwed that up yet.. he can't really because he uses that money to pay his monthly fines to the police. He's had it for over a year now and has never been in trouble at work.

JohnPhoenix
reply to post by whyamIhere

 

Gee, your funny. I'll just ignore you from now on cus you haven't got a clue.. everyone else knows it too.

Yes,

I'm the one without a clue.

The kid works 8 to 5 six days a week. Sounds like a great kid to me. Better go mark your territory.

Unfounaty his mind is set until he runs up against a brick wall of realization. I am 37 now, but I was once in a similar pair of shoes. The only difference was that I had both of my parents. This set of behaviors is how he thinks he can earn respect, love, and self worth. You and your wife are a challenge, and a safety net (free lunch).
Take him on a long road trip, and don't say a word the whole time unless nessecary, treat him to lunch, Play it by ear and see if anything positive comes out of it. And if not, drop his butt off far away.

You should have confronted him, given him his drugs, told him he made his choice, and told him to get the # out. Good luck. See you around town, but you are not allowed here anymore.

reply to post by rival


Absolute best advice in the thread.

nightstalker78
reply to post by rival

 

Absolute best advice in the thread.

Agreed.

I have come to believe that every substance-abuser is like water; he has to find is own lowest point. You cannot take a short-cut and get him there faster, to save him the pain. He must hit bottom before he can find his healing (assuming he survives). But it's a lesson he must learn for himself.

Like his PO saying you can just phone it in for a couple of months. ANY sober person can see that for the setup it surely is. Only a guy who hasn't hit bottom yet is fooled by that line.

I guy like that CAN'T tell the truth to you. He just isn't able. It is a waste of time to ask him if he is still using. He lacks the ability to form an answer that is realistic.

I noticed that some folks here were "horrified" at the idea of "kicking out" a 20 year old to live on their own. Frankly, he probably won't become self-sufficient until that happens, one way or another. Personally, I'd give him 30 days, and then change the locks while he's at work. I'd tell him what was going to happen, then I'd follow through.

I lived with some relatives when I was finally "manning up." They laid down the law for me, and, once I couldn't afford any more screw ups, I started growing up in 30 days. In fact, I was out on my own in less than the given time.

It's like the Shawshank Redemption: "Either get busy livin', or get busy dyin'."

Until the choice is put to him, he'll never choose either one.

rival
This one's easy.

Be honest. Don't flush the drugs and hide it.

Present the drugs the moment he arrives home. Tell he can have
them and move out, or flush them and stay.

Explain to him that life is his own and if wants to continue do use
drugs it is up to him, but he will have to do it without your support,
and without bringing any illegal substance into YOUR home and
thereby implicating you in a crime.

I wasn't home when he came home, that's why my wife talked to him first. She lied, unbeknownst to me until much later.

The talk you suggest did already happen when he got out of jail. almost word for word.

There is No Way me or his mom, once having the drugs in our possession are going to offer those drugs back to him - to get busted with on the street, so that option is out.

He can get randomly drug tested at any moment because they haven't done that yet. If it shows up in his system, he's going back to jail anyway. If i tell him we found the drugs, this will make his mom look bad for lying to him and may do lots of harm to their already fragile relationship.

You have to understand.. My responsibility to Her it to make sure he stays close to her and safe as they are just now building a relationship for the first time due to him being kidnapped years ago. I think lots of you folks are not taking this into account. You cannot treat this situation the same as you would for a kid who's been living at home his whole life.

As it stands your solution to flush them and stay is going to happen by default.