The Trouble With Large Threads. - Not Trouser Related :)

unb3k44n7
So? I don't see how the fact that 'you' personally have 'not' observed any instance of said occurrence(s) relevant. I'm saying it has.
I can provide linked sources for the public if we'd care to take it that far. I have no problem with my account being banned by providing them if it has to come to that.

GUILTY AS CHARGED

I've been insulting, sometimes intensely so, toward members who spread lies, false assumptions, and other stupidity toward myself, my partners, our wonderful staff, and generally excellent members.

The instances are blatantly wrong and uncalled for.

No, untrue. My heart and soul have been devoted to this passion of mine. I will not stop insulting, or otherwise responding in-kind. those who attack ATS.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Except that I happen to like you and It's not you.

reply to post by unb3k44n7


If you were insulted, then choose to take your business elsewhere. If there is an 'elsewhere' that is.

Monopolies give quite a bit of leverage, don't they?

If it makes you feel better....they have insulted lots of people. Most often, to a deserving member. A few times, I have winced and seen it be a rather undeserving member. But such is life, especially when dealing with something near and dear to your heart (like a website/business that they have grown to be the top in its category).

ETA: looks like i was scooped by SO while typing the above post.

reply to post by unb3k44n7



It's not worth getting banned over, whatever the insult was.

Mods are not always impartial or moderate on ATS and as SO has said, they defend ATS from criticism and attacks when they feel the need to.
But....this is THEIR site, when it boils down to it, members are replaceable and as members we have no recourse and no "laws" or rights on ATS to protect us.

This is a private site and they can run it however they like...literally any way they choose.
It's not worth getting wound up or arguing against it, it's just not.
Just enjoy the parts of the site you enjoy, spend your time and energy on things you enjoy.

ATS is not a government or a dictator... members cannot overthrow or beat them or change policies, ATS does not work that way, voicing your concerns is fine and generally in life things are worth fighting for and you can enact change and make a difference, but not on ATS, it's not real... it's entertainment and you need to treat it as such and just have fun.
Fiercely debate other members sure, be funny, sarcastic have fun, get emotional... whatever, that's fine.... but there is no point in trying to tell ATS owners or staff that they're wrong or that they're in the wrong.

It is an exercise in futility

reply to post by blupblup


I am not trying to attack insult or overthrow the website AT ALL. There are things about the site I don't care for, there are more things that i DO care for, but mostly minor compared to what this is about.
All I wanted after all this time was for said person to at least acknowledge somehow that they blatantly insulted a somewhat large portion of members for unjust reasons.

It's conflicting to me for "human" reasons, not political or devious ones. I feel conflicted to be a part of a site where the owner feels it was ok and just in this specific case and continues to passively belittle members in a blanket-like fashion. And since I feel conflicted I'm putting what I like forth. I'd rather not have had this discussion take place in an open thread. But it has, due to the fact that I have tried to discuss and bring to light this issue privately several different ways, both civil, upfront, and passively in casual conversation - all without any acknowledgement. And YES I am well aware I am not entitled to Need Any Acknowledgement at all.

But again, this comes down being conflicted for human reasons.
IT would be the human thing to do to acknowledge something such as this. Despite any and all other factors.

I've gone through this thread, and I confess to not having a full understanding of a salient issue to address. So let me touch on generalities, and in a way that will likely come across as a bit of a bastard tool.


I know better than most, if not all of you.
(same goes for our long-term staffers and my partners)

Along with another partner, long ago, I expanded and managed the Computer Arts forums on CompuServe from 1992-1995. It had everything from natural media artists discussing techniques and sharing their work, to ground-breaking work in open source crowd-sourced 3D rendering software… and lots in-between, including experiments in streaming media for online graphic novels. Some years later, as the web replaced CompuServe, the Computer Arts forums have been often used as the "gold standard" for how online communities should be managed. That was me.

For the next ten years, I was on the bleeding edge of technologies, techniques, user experience, and design as the Web/Internet grew from 640x480 screens and 256 color limitations as the standard, to what it is now. I directed crazy amounts of advertisers' money in developing online campaigns, websites, and new Internet-specific technologies. Still have a strong passion for user-generated content, a lot of that work involved creating online communities and integrating user materials (video, photos, comments).

Back in 2004, I saw the spark of genius in what Simon Gray had started here with ATS, and jumped in to help save the site from shut-down. At the time, the traffic was growing beyond 25,000 monthly users and becoming too expensive to support. With my successful experience in online advertising/marketing, combined with what I knew about successful community development, I saw ATS as a very compelling challenge -- could my experience help the highly controversial and provocative content of ATS grow to be a significant force?

The answer was and is, yes.


So in short, the TLDR version: If some members don't like how ATS is run, I generally don't care. Because it is runs well, and we know it.






PS: That being said, I think we've also proven we listen to member feedback and refine the community policies/technology/design when appropriate. And for those not logged-in all the time who complain about the pop-ups, we're currently about to experiment with something much less intrusive that could replace the revenue.

reply to post by unb3k44n7



I'm not attacking you at all, nor was I saying you were trying to overthrow ATS.
Having been on a here for a few years, I've seen all manner of groups & individuals go against ATS for all manner of reasons, and by ATS I mean owners, policies, mods or whatever, and time after time, in every single instance ATS is still ATS.
It doesn't bend or break or change.

So even if the owner explicitly came out and mocked someone's dead cat... there is literally nothing that can be done about it.

I'm not speaking up for ATS, not being pro their decisions, I'm merely telling you from experience and having seen many, many threads and issues that people have had with ATS (for whatever reason) that ATS will do and act how ATS wants to.

Whether you or every members of the site was insulted or not, it makes no difference, there is nothing that can be done.

reply to post by unb3k44n7


If it wasn't SkepticOverlord it must have been me.

Like SkpeticOverlord I too will get "less than polite" when someone insults or attacks the site, my partners, our fabulous volunteer staff, any of our invited guests, and most definitely, any of our members.

That said, there have been times when we've been wrong (yep, we're humans, believe it or not), we've apologized for every one of those that I'm aware of.

What specifically are you upset about?

Post a link, let's get it ironed out. There's nothing that intelligent, civil, humans can't work out.

You'll have to be patient if you expect a response from me though, I'm dealing with a family issue and will be offline for the next couple hours but I will be check this thread when I get back to my office.

Springer...

Springer
Post a link, let's get it ironed out. There's nothing that intelligent, civil, humans can't work out.

Other members can say what they want about my statement here....i don't care. I have nothing to gain by telling you how much I respect you, Mark. Seriously. What you say above, it should be the motto of the internet.

reply to post by SLAYER69


That would be amazing. I remember we had asked for bookmarking feature once before. Maybe in the next release of ATS, which I think they may be gathering requirements for now?

ETA: You are all so...intimidating looking!

reply to post by ~Lucidity




1 2 3 4 5.. Mouse hovers over colored or bold numeral with a brief description bubble? < insert correct programming term ?

edit on 14-3-2014 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

reply to post by Springer


This reply alone, given It's nature, is enough for me to have changed my mind to feel the need not to take it any further.
Consider the issue(s) "ironed-out."

SLAYER69
reply to post by ~Lucidity

 

1 2 3 4 5.. Mouse hovers over colored or bold numeral with a brief description bubble? < insert correct programming term ?

edit on 14-3-2014 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

Yes, please. This can probably be automated, at least to a degree, or if not, maybe open up a field like the field for edit reason and we can type in keywords?

This forum seems to have some nifty thread search/indexing/bookmarking features: forum.xda-developers.com...

And they use something called "sticky threads" to link to other threads too. Sounds interesting.

I wonder if Korg Trinity was expecting the turn this thread took ... and there's already been one positive outcome!!
reply to post by OpinionatedB

Yes, some people did not read all the posts in the thread before posting, and at one point you just ignore them to a degree and continue on with the discussion that is taking place... the new poster will catch up at some point and jump in on target, or they quit posting one of the two.

OB: Great point above. Sometimes I drop a thread that gets derailed. I Know I'm not the only one.

It really sucks when that happens and my heart goes out to the OP for their effort. This can be Really disenchanting for a new participant. You've got a great idea for a thread ... and you know people aren't making it past page one before they move on to something less 'combative.' I think the vaccination threads stand as the most stark evidence of what I'm making a point of, but even those 'get legs' occasionally.

SkepticOverlord
I've gone through this thread, and I confess to not having a full understanding of a salient issue to address. So let me touch on generalities, and in a way that will likely come across as a bit of a bastard tool.


I know better than most, if not all of you.
(same goes for our long-term staffers and my partners)

Along with another partner, long ago....

In a Galaxy Far Far Far away????

Seriously, should ATS be worried?? That did read a little like you were brushing up your CV

joking aside...

To address the point of the thread....

How is it currently??

let's say there is a current event or an idea that has captured the imagination of our membership... so much so that the post count grows in the way we have all seen it... supper fast.

Then take note that there are people that want to discuss other aspects of the same subject... they set up a separate thread... the discussions don't really seem to have any direct relation... two entirely different threads... Then a third thread appears....

All the various discussions on multiple pages on the main thread repeat, due to people that haven't read all the pages... Then some discussion point that could have resolved an argument on the main thread is discussed on an entirely different thread.

The result.... A complete unconnected mess of information...

The information is not logically ordered and thus we are not able to maximize our discussions to reach any end.

My Idea

When a thread reaches a point where the staff feel it is becoming disordered, there should be an index page just for that one subject....

I'm not talking about it's own forum such as 911... I'm talking about a kind of index page for the various aspects of the discussion. So that it is easy to find all the posts about a certain aspect of the subject or that some aspect has been resolved.

An example of how this could work... in the recent threads about the missing plane I raised a question about the phones still ringing after 3 days.... this was well received.... when in actual fact this had to my mind at least been somewhat resolved when someone mentioned in another thread that it could be the carrier actually creating the ringing and not the phone... Yet there was a vast number of discussions on this very point.

If however there had been a kind of missing plane starter page where the posts regarding the phone ringing could have all been listed or connected regardless of if they were on the main thread or other thread, the information could easily have been seen, and countless man hours no doubt saved.

Surely a more efficient way of ordering the discussions would cut down on server load too? And that should free up some budget for further development?

Just my thoughts...

Anyway..

I realize I am probably asking a lot...I have some understanding of what it takes to develop a website, So please don't take my comments as having a go at the site [I'm not really asking for ATS data Warehousing... honest lol ]... I have nothing but the total respect of how you are able to keep the site live with such obvious sustained load and no subscription fee. Clearly the site is balanced over several servers to obtain such stability.

I'm not sure I have been able to communicate my idea clearly enough... I often wonder at how ones mind can visualize so easily yet it's so difficult to convey directly in words.

Peace,

Korg.

Ooh yes when threads get really big... well it would be nice to see something built that would make it easier to get through the posts quicker if we are "behind" and need to catch up. I would not want to miss what any one poster has contributed though.

I know there can be a lot of repetition but everyone wants to contribute and rightly so. I don't mind if someone has already posted an idea and then another member comes along and says the same thing. Its only logical that a lot of folks will come up with similar ideas/conclusions...so on so forth. Everyone wants to have their say and that is part of what ATS is all about.

I don't do this all the time...but on some threads when I read the original post I immediately reply without reading anybody else's contributions. Then I go back and read the rest of the reply's after my post has been made.

You may ask why I do that. Well... a number of reasons. 1) I am excited and my interest has been peaked and I feel I want to reply right away -AND/OR- 2) It's kind of an internal game my mind plays. I reply right away with what I am thinking and then I like to go back and read what every one else said and see if anyone said anything remotely similar to me. This is a fun game I play with my own mind within myself. Most of the time...there are plenty of posters who said exactly what I did.

Other times I read through the whole thread before I reply... and if I decide to reply... I do.

Ok back to the suggestion. What can be done ? What if each reply is categorized by similarities.

Ex.
First post is the Original Post and remains as is for the entirety of the thread
The second post becomes Category "a"
any poster who then makes a post with similar content as the "a" post/category gets put in the "a" bucket
The third post if it did not fall into "a", becomes Category "b"
any poster who then makes a post with similar content as the "b" post/category gets put in the "b" bucket

so on and so forth
Walla...a Catalog system is built

I don't know If I have explained this in a fashion that makes sense.

How complex and difficult programming such as this can be is a whole other issue. Probly too complex.


leolady

3 pages... I guess this is a successful thread.

I personally, (and as always I realize my opinion means jack) rather prefer long threads instead of 15 threads that are based on the same topic but report some new minor twist or theory. Just my opinion.

That being said, I would like to see an interior thread filter. Now I am not an html programmer/web designer so I am not sure if this would work or is even doable, but maybe within a thread there is a way to weed out the stuff you may not want to read. Something that works like a reversed hashtag system. That way the public still has access to every post, but the individual member can choose to remove the posts that they know they will just skim over in that thread. Thus cutting down the number of post and/or pages within a thread specifically tailored for that member, and essentially making the getting caught-up part a little easier.

For example... Let's say there's this huge thread distinctively about lemons that I just got into, however there are a large amount of post pertaining to limes. After reading a few I find that I just don't jive with the lime theories/ideas. So instead of skimming past lime posts to find the next lemon post; I simply go to the interior thread filter, enter the word lime and basically hide all the posts with the word lime in them.

Again I don't know if that is possible, just an idea had while I was reading this thread.

OK I'm gonna wade in here

We have a choice, Log in ....................Log out

If we choose the former then we agree to the T's & C's and we have to abide by them, we made a contract when we first signed up and that needs to be adhered to.

If we choose the latter, problem solved.

I'm in some threads over 100 pages long, it's hard to keep up sometimes, but friendships form, and this should be encouraged IMHO.

Just my 2 cents

Cody

reply to post by Korg Trinity


Good points, imho.

Applause is good . . . even as rare as it is.

HOWEVER, for behavior modification to be effective, the feedback loop and context needs to be maximized toward that.

WHEN the points are unseen and the applause is unseen by other posters . . . the behavior modification effect is minimal.

It seems to me that minimizing the trollishness and maximizing the better posting behaviors is worth maximizing the reinforcing mechanisms by insuring that such things are obvious, seen by the poster and other observers.