I'm trying to believe in God, Part 2

I have to admit that my belief in God has been wavering in recent years. So maybe you can help me.

God has always existed by definition. So if you tried to express the time before God created the physical universe and the non-physical universes, no number no matter how many zeroes are at the end of the number would be sufficient.

So what did God do for the billion times a billion times a billion times a billion infinities before he created something other than himself? Just exist in perfection?

Questions like this make me feel like the idea of God is somewhat ludicrous. But I am still not totally sure God doesn't exist.

God was probably busy creating other universes for eternity. Our big bang wasn't the first and won't be the last in my opinion. God creates and recreates itself over and over for eternity.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


OK, let's assume God was busy creating other universes before he created this universe. But what was the first universe he created? And then the question remains what was he doing in the inexpressible time before this?

Whether or not this omnipresent being exists always has and will be up for interpretation. If you look at past civilisation's, there was in mqny cultures different gods to represent different aspects of nature. The god of the sun, the moon, thunder, harvest, etc. I feel that the thing that humans have lost is the affiliation with nature and how we can live harmoniously in synchronicity with our environment. I dont think it is whether or not you should believe in a god that is the problem, I feel that the problem is the doctines that have been placed on our perception of god and how we are expected to live our life according to god. Humans have placed to many rules and laws as a representation as god.

reply to post by fabricofsociety2014

The doctrines are designed to control us. But my question is whether the idea of god is absurd.

This isn't even a question that is possible to answer. Measuring anything back to just our own Big Bang can only be done in theory past a certain point. Once you get really close to the actual bang everything breaks down, even time itself. As for what, if anything was or could happen before it is not possible to understand at least for now. You're more that welcome to speculate all you want though.

I'm wondering if you're title here is correct though because it says you're trying to believe in God, yet you seem to include God in your theories automatically anyway. What makes you sure there was a God who set off the Bang to begin with let alone what that God may have been doing before that??

reply to post by mOjOm

I'm far from sure God was present at the Big Bang.

reply to post by droid56


I am trying to understand how god could play the decisive role in the creation of the universe. The plot is weak, but the truth is a mystery.

reply to post by droid56


That was my point, there wasn't a first universe, there has always been a universe in the same way that there has always been God. They're one in the same thing.

reply to post by droid56


Well here is a thread I wrote some time back about the cycle of black hole to white hole universe creation. It was just a theory that once I started actually seemed quite plausible. Nothing about God in it though, but here it is if you'd like to check it out.

Black Holes to White Holes

There has always been a universe? When it comes to the physical, things come and then they go.

reply to post by droid56


Nope, everything changes form but it never disappears. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, meaning neither can our universe, that also means that you cannot be created or destroyed either, you only change forms.

reply to post by droid56


Well, lets postulate that IF god exist, he is a cause that exist outside the physical universe.

IE: If he caused the Big bang, he existed before it.

If that is the case, than your very concept of time is off, there would be none to an entity that existed outside the bounds of our physical universe, as something that caused the big bang would be.

You are thinking very 4 dimensionlly about God, something most do, they place God in a very human box.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Yes, everything changes form over time. But to suggest that this physical universe of ours has always existed doesn't make sense. Our sun has a life cycle that ends. And what existed before it all began?

It's naive to think that we are God's crowning achievement. We're not even that smart or kind to others and other beings. God has created countless joys and has sat through countless sorrows before us.

reply to post by droid56


There was no time when God did not create.

For there to be a creator there has to be a creation.

Further, think of time, not as some linear line, or cosmic force that is out there, but instead, think of time as the rate at which will manifests something.

The first creation is called the Son. The first creator is called Father. The first will which manifested is called The Holy Ghost.

They all three must be eternal as you cannot have one without the other.

Father - Son - Holy Ghost
Mind - Body - Spirit
Awareness - Image of Awareness (thought / mental image) - Will

Think of it like your awareness is the awareness of your thoughts which are manifest by your will.

Remove awareness, thoughts, or will - anyone of them, and you cannot be awareness or willful or thoughtful.

Creation must have always been.

Edit: Time however, is debatable. There doesn't need to be time if something is manifest instantaneously. Think of quantum entanglement: What quantized amount of time does the instantaneous motion of entangled particles occur at? (It doesn't - it is instant.)

reply to post by droid56


The death of a star is just the beginning of other stars. The death of this universe is the beginning of another one, the beginning of this one was the death of the previous one. Everything is energy, energy cannot be created or destroyed, meaning there is no "before", only what has always been.... forever.

reply to post by droid56


I think you're trying to understand something our minds can't possibly comprehend...

Ever seen this?

The Scale of the Universe

IF God created all this... where do we even start?

A Minecraft world is right beside Neptune by the way

I'm starting to understand why you're wavering in your faith. The problem is that you're bogged down by a dogmatic view of God. To have faith we have to realize that God and all the realities that He has created have no bounds. Don't let others tell you what to think.

reply to post by Akragon


Where we start is with our own minds. We are made in God's likeness.

No other thing in reality, that I know of, explains reality better than our own minds.

e.g. How can you put a boundary on space? There must always be something outside of space, or a boundary must always have something else outside of the boundary, right? Well... space is not something like a place as it is thought in materialism. Space is like the darkness within your mind's eye, of which, there is no boundary. You can move things in your mind infinity apart or together - just as you can in space. Planck scale is not the most finite point - it is the most finite point we can measure - it is when there is nothing but uncertainty there to measure. And if you really think about it - all is uncertainty because no measurement is truly finite - they are all figurative or based on approximation.