So a country boy can survive? EPA Wants to Snuff out Wood and Pellet Stoves. with a mini ice coming

ignorant_ape
please read this : the fireplace delusion , sam harris

Read it.

Yeah, so what? Pretty much everything in the world poses risks of some sort. If it's cold out, one needs to keep the inside of one's dwelling warm.

If a wood fire is so bad, what do you suggest as an alternative?

Maybe using electricity? Produced by coal or nuclear power? Oh, yeah, those are much safer.

We could burn coal, or coal oil, instead. That'd be better, right?

In a perfect world, there'd be a perfect solution to every problem. We do not live in a perfect world.

Deal with it.

reply to post by Danbones


I hear you Danbones! This is the sort of thing they are doing here as well. Every month there is a new regulation to be met, a new restriction... for our "safety" of course! It is getting to the point that it is impossible to just live without buying. And if you can't afford it, they will give you money - for now.

Remember the good 'ol days when it took Congress to change or develop brand new national policy? That's some trick with the EPA there. No legislation to phase out perfectly legal products needed anymore. Nope.. They've done away with all that time wasting inconvenience. Now they just think it up, write some regs and do it.

Amazing... Just... Amazing.

Logarock
Yep, here is the EPA doing the bidding of others. Its all about cash, controlling markets ect. AND they are trying to nip in the bud the resurgence of wood burning, over the last 5 years, primarily as a means to save money. That's all the EPA is worried about.

edit on 6-3-2014 by Logarock because: n

Exactly.

The electricity and propane companies are losing money to firewood, and as those bills become higher, more people are switching to wood.

I lived rural for 3 years and after the first winter and $600/mo combined on elec and propane switched to wood. and NEVER looked back,

Plus, firewood is an unregulated undustry, TPTB canthave people making a living unless their money grubbing fingers get involved.

Question, will firewood be the new alcohol prohibition?

good point
i forgot about the wood that gets sold sub rosa...

HanzHenry

Logarock
Yep, here is the EPA doing the bidding of others. Its all about cash, controlling markets ect. AND they are trying to nip in the bud the resurgence of wood burning, over the last 5 years, primarily as a means to save money. That's all the EPA is worried about.

edit on 6-3-2014 by Logarock because: n

Exactly.

The electricity and propane companies are losing money to firewood, and as those bills become higher, more people are switching to wood.

I lived rural for 3 years and after the first winter and $600/mo combined on elec and propane switched to wood. and NEVER looked back,

Plus, firewood is an unregulated undustry, TPTB canthave people making a living unless their money grubbing fingers get involved.

Question, will firewood be the new alcohol prohibition?

Yes and be sure always that therein is the rub......propane, electric and natural gas losing money and the EPA giving the producers of those a reach around on firewood.

AndyMayhew
The EPA are bannng woodburning stoves in the same way that they have already banned refridgerators and cars ......

All that has happened is that any new stove sold must meet current standards regarding emissions. Just as fridges and cars must.

Sometimes it pays to look beyind the headline....

On January 3, 2014, EPA proposed revisions to the residential wood heater new source performance standards (NSPS) under Section 111 of the Clean Air Act. The draft revisions apply to new heaters ONLY and do not apply to existing wood stoves and other wood heaters installed in peoples’ homes.

www.epa.gov...

(my emphasis)

Yea it pays to look so you can see how screwed up it actually is. According to the EPA guidelines you cant even make a stove in your garage without taking it somewhere and having it tested at your expense before installing it in your home. You cant make stoves homemade and sell them to a neighbor, even if it were as few as 1 stove, without them being certified, tested, labeled and provided with an owners manual (1000$ fine and 10$ per stove). In addition there is a large area of where they can nit pick the stove as uncertifiable.

EPA Fines

Wrabbit2000
Remember the good 'ol days when it took Congress to change or develop brand new national policy? That's some trick with the EPA there. No legislation to phase out perfectly legal products needed anymore. Nope.. They've done away with all that time wasting inconvenience. Now they just think it up, write some regs and do it.

Amazing... Just... Amazing.

that's one of the reasons i say that not only representatives and senators should have term limits.
that bureaucrats should have to have their job performances evaluated yearly, not by the elected but by everyday citizens picked from each state. sorta like a jury system. if they have been serving the needs of the people satisfactorily they keep their job, if not they gotta go.

all the heads of EPA, FDA,IRS, FBI,SSA, and all other alphabet agencies, and their underlings that have any control of policy making or interpretation of laws. and the supreme court too.

i think these people are just as dangerous if not more than elected officials

Creating yet ANOTHER black market.

A smart investor would buy up all the unauthorized stoves to sell later at a premium profit. This happened with the 1.3GL/flush limit toilets decades ago.

HanzHenry

Logarock
Yep, here is the EPA doing the bidding of others. Its all about cash, controlling markets ect. AND they are trying to nip in the bud the resurgence of wood burning, over the last 5 years, primarily as a means to save money. That's all the EPA is worried about.

edit on 6-3-2014 by Logarock because: n

Exactly.

The electricity and propane companies are losing money to firewood, and as those bills become higher, more people are switching to wood.

I lived rural for 3 years and after the first winter and $600/mo combined on elec and propane switched to wood. and NEVER looked back,

Plus, firewood is an unregulated undustry, TPTB canthave people making a living unless their money grubbing fingers get involved.

Question, will firewood be the new alcohol prohibition?

Already is restricted in CT. Claiming some bug or worm infestation from outside the state wood. Nose under the tent soon to be racheted up.

some very good posts
thanks

being someone who uses wood heat often as i move around to various jobs, i thought i knew the subject well
but there is a lot of stuff posted I didn't realize

the incremental boiling of the frogs you might say

reply to post by Logarock


interesting post ..right at the heart of the issue
there it opens the door to what else can't you make at home?
(besides unpasturized yogurt)

reply to post by incoserv


Some people here where I live DO use coal in their stoves. They have the wood/coal stove where either/or can be used. I absolutely love to be going along somewhere and catch a whiff of someone burning coal. Or wood for that matter. That kind of heat will go through your bones, and it is awesome to cook on. I've cooked taters on electric, propane and wood/coal stoves and there IS a difference in how they come out.

People here can get a permit through Wes Vaco(Asian timber company) and get all the firewood you want off their property as long as it's down. But, I'm highly against what they do to our mountains. They rip most of the trees off and it looks horrible. Now, there are major floods where there used to be none. Very sad looking.

I seriously doubt that the gov would ever be able to regulate, or stop people from using wood to heat their homes. That would be interesting to watch. lol I bet it never happens. They can control the pellets, though, but oh well! Just convert to wood/coal. I have thousand of acres behind my home if I ever need an abundance of heat,-if worse comes to worse.

venison and or maple syrop on hardwood

venison and or maple syrop on hardwood


you can say that agian

Danbones
reply to post by Logarock

 

interesting post ..right at the heart of the issue
there it opens the door to what else can't you make at home?
(besides unpasturized yogurt)

On that link I posted. If one looks closely at the top fines are based on assets with about 100,000 being the low point.

Now you take some guy that has a welding shop. He could easily have 100grand in assets. If he makes just one stove and sells it to Joe down the road he could be subject to any number of the fineable offences list provided in the link. Like not providing an owners manual just for starters. There doesn't seem to be any asset qualification criteria listed there so for all we know it could mean total personal assets not simply business assets. If all assets are to be qualified, a man with a simple welder and necessary tools making just one stove in his barn could be subject.

reply to post by Logarock


likey by the time people really need wood stoves the economic depression will prevent purchase of expensive possibly surcharged stoves
any community that tries to provide for itself like in the old blacksmith days would likely get targeted by the feds to make certain the peeps are screwed and must kowtow to the regime

just like raw milk/ farm food is treated today...

reply to post by Fylgje


didn't obama make the nice clean western us coal illegal or financially prohibited?

Obama’s War on Coal Will Raise Energy Prices by 80%

www.frontpagemag.com...

well illegal is too strong a word...yet

incrementally freezing that frog...so to speak

One of the big drivers will always be the fact that the government can't effectively tax you on the wood you burn in these stoves.
It must really wind them up to think of people getting free heat who aren't rich enough to buy expensive solar or geothermal systems, some of the money from which goes in taxes.

reply to post by SprocketUK


very good point
there is a such a thing as a stump tax..but not on dead fall and demolision/ construction materials, and not on the one, or two off, problem trees home owners are always having to deal with, nor can they track farmers tree lots

jus curios if i may ask
what is the wood situation like in an old world country like the uk...?
would you folks have to go with peat or coal?


we have seen what large scale solar and wind is good for
obamas cronies made off with tons off dough in huge solar scams
and spains green economy is non existant