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THIS is a real debate!

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posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 03:24 PM
A few months ago there was a big "debate" advertised everywhere featuring Bill Nye and Ken Ham...

Now personally I wouldn't really call that a debate... it was set up from the start at the "creation museum" rebuttal was only allowed 1 minute to respond to the previous question... clearly no way to run a debate

In my opinion the creationists made that rule so Bill would not have time to refute anything Ken Ham said... and IF anyone watched the so called "debate" you could clearly see Bill was frustrated...

For those that are not familiar with debating or haven't watched many.... THIS is how a real debate works

The actual debate Doesn't start until 49:39

Dinesh D'Souza Vs Bart Ehrman

Theodicy God and Suffering

Normally I would definitely side with Dr. Ehrman, but I have to say D'Souza did have some excellent points


posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 05:36 PM
reply to post by Akragon

Great debate Dinesh D'Souza is actually very tolerable compared to other Christian apologists.

One point of his I would like to address is this...

"There is something within human nature that longs for life to go on." - D'Souza

Of course there is a longing for life to go on, because all we know is existence. The idea of "non-existence" is un-desirable. So it is honestly no surprise that human beings with the capability to understand that at some point they will die can imagine a world where there is no death and no suffering.

posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 01:37 AM

Can you summarize? I saw the term "suffering" in the title of the video, I am interested. God is so beautiful. Our joys
and sufferings are a win win. When we offer our sufferings to God in prayer, He can use them, no matter how little the
cross to help save souls.


posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 08:43 AM
reply to post by colbe

It's about why evil exist, why God allows people to suffer, et cetera.
Very interesting debate.

I knew about this debate but I never had time to watch it. I'm glad Akragon brought it up again

posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 09:59 AM
reply to post by colbe

I saw the term "suffering" in the title of the video, I am interested. God is so beautiful. Our joys
and sufferings are a win win.

Hmm... Well we're not talking about the petty suffering of every day life most of us are used to here...

The video is more about the suffering of the innocent...

Starving people, men women and children killed in "natural disasters"... etc etc

posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 10:22 AM
reply to post by Akragon

If just did not manifest before God, if he alone created the concept of just, and he remains in control of what is "just", how is it just to create suffrage? What is he trying to show us by punishing us, if he is the one who controls whether or not someone experiences displeasure?

How to solve the question(s):

1. God is eternal. God did not become eternal, God has always been eternal.

2. God is just. God did not become just, God has always been just.

Within the same sense of understanding as statements 1. and 2., all of God's concepts / awarenesses have always been - his concepts are who he is.

Therefore, the concept of suffrage has always been a concept of retribution, or atonement, for justness -- it is intrinsic to reality; and it is most likely the expression, or lesson, that what we create causes us harm -- we have to learn not to create harmful things because they will become apart of us.

To better understand this, think of it like you are your soul, your spirit, and your body - you are the trinity of yourself -- the likeness of God. With this understanding, you can then see why it is imperative that we learn not to create unjust things with our own trinity, or likeness of God -- because our unjust creations will not only harm others, but they will also harm us -- our spirits will become corrupt, thereby corrupting our body and soul.

The philosophy or principle of karma as expressed by God?

This would also explain why anything but realities sovereignly controlled by each individual can be considered just... because we have to learn that what we create affects not only what we create, but it affects ourselves, as well.


To paraphrase the Christian debater, "This is God's reality, he is the author, thus whatever his will is, it is just (since it is his reality)."

posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 10:37 AM
reply to post by Bleeeeep

Interesting... and well said.

I have a few issues with that though... First off no one except the church said that "God" is a trinity... Not even his own son...

You say that we create our own suffering, which for the most part is absolutely true... however, as Dr. Ehrman says in the video, this does not explain why people who have no concept of what God is still suffer...


Why people who have done nothing wrong in their lives suffer, such as small children...

Now there is a way to explain this... but i'll let the readers try if they will

IF God is the author as you stated, in many cases he is not so great at that job... but again, there are logical ways of explaining it

posted on Mar, 7 2014 @ 11:40 AM
I had a chance to sit and listen to this debate this morning. I found it very interesting.

Thanks for posting it! Ehrman made a very good case - and I wonder - why is it that "believers" still have the notion that "religion=morality" and "irreligious=immoral"? Clearly it isn't so. It seems to me we should all be rallying together to solve the problems of suffering (not hangnails, nono. BABIES dying of starvation at the rate of one every 5 ticks! Malaria that can be cured, etc.)
I think that Ehrman discussed the difference between what we can control, and what we can't (natural disasters vs allowed poverty/illness)...seems to me we ought to be doing everything we can do to protect each other AND the planet (Our Home).

edit on 3/7/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)

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