How should a person act according to Jesus and Paul? Also, clearing some misunderstandings about Pau

Jesus Christ:

Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.

Matthew 5:16
let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

Matthew 5:44- 45
love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Matthew 7:12
In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

The reason why I said Paul is because some of his letters, according to biblical scholars, are the oldest writings we have about Jesus Christ.

So how does it say a Christian should act?

1 Thessalonians 5:14-15

And we urge you, brothers and sisters, warn those who are idle and disruptive, encourage the disheartened, help the weak, be patient with everyone. Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always strive to do what is good for each other and for everyone else.

People say that Paul is not good because he said we are justified by works but by faith (Galatians 2:16) This is a half truth because it is taken out of context. If you continue to read you will see that the real why Paul said we are justified by faith is because when we live by loving each other instead of pleasing our selfish desires, we are led by The Holy Spirit.

Galatians 5:13-18
You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Whenever Jesus talks about being "Children of The Heavenly Father" he talks about being peace makers or forgiving your enemies. It is true that Paul said we are justified by Faith and not by Law, but that is ONLY because we are directly with The Holy Spirit when we live in love as he said in Galatians 5:18.

It is Love that is our Unity:

Philippians 2:2
make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose.

Philippians 2:4
do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also[/b for the interests of others.

1 Peter 3:8
Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble.

Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

I hope I touched someone's heart with these Bible Verses and clarification of what people thought was a contradiction in Paul's teachings. Children of God should Glorify God by shining their light full of Love and Humility.

Even if you don't believe in God, don't you think the world would be a more Peaceful and Happier place this way of we actually all cared for each other? Some people say it is just a dream, but it is a dream worth living for.

Peace.

"If we are led by the Spirit, we are not under the law".

That's probably the cause of my law-threads and my confusion therein.

I personally have no issues with the letters of Paul. I mean, I do not consider Paul a fraud. I haven't read all of his letters though, but he has valuable instructions and wisdom.

reply to post by arpgme

It is true that Paul said we are justified by Faith and not by Law, but that is ONLY because we are directly with The Holy Spirit when we live in love as he said in Galatians 5:18.

In his introduction to the Letter to the Romans, he talks about how the spirit enabled him and his associates to be Apostles of the Gospel, and then gives its purpose as:
Romans 1:5b
. . . to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake.
(2011 NIV)
Then in chapter 2, he says:
Romans 2:6
God “will repay each person according to what they have done.
(2011 NIV)
So it looks like that according to Paul, being "obedient" to God is something that people can do through faith in His son.
In the Gospels, Jesus makes this point in a slightly less direct way, where in one place he would say to do good, and in another place he would say that coming to the Father is only possible through him.

I think that the confusion about Paul in a lot of people's minds comes from reading the first two chapters of Ephesians, which is probably not even written by Paul but someone else in the church decades after the real Paul had quit writing letters, for one reason or another, such as his having died or gone off to where his letters never made it back to the church in general.
In that book, the author summarizes a lot of what can be taken from Paul's earlier writings but done in a way alien from Paul's style, in not giving definitions built into the rhetoric for all the terms being used in the specific text.
When Ephesians says that we are saved by faith and not of our own doing lest we should boast, it means that Jesus through his works created the church, where being in it by faith we are then "saved" to good works, where doing those "good works" would not otherwise be possible.
Romans 2:7-8
To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.
(2011 NIV)

Yes, that's consistent with what I know. First you are saved or accept salvation, then the works follow naturally from that because if your life has transformed because you are saved, then you want to do the right thing. You want to love others, help others, and works come from that.

reply to post by ketsuko

First you are saved or accept salvation . . .

What are your definitions of saved and salvation, and can you find it in the Bible?

reply to post by arpgme


Those that claim to be "washed in the blood" usually have a holier than thou attitude and have no trouble feeling and claiming superiority over anyone not of their particular flavor of religion.

If you want evidence of the above statement; head over to the political forums and bear witness to some of the most unChristlike behavior you can imagine by the religious right wingers.

sorry

reply to post by jmdewey60


There are likely about as many definitions of that as there are denominations of Christianity. Is there one in particular you favor?

The simplest answer is simply to have faith in Jesus who is the Son of God and is God that by having faith in Him you obtain forgiveness of your sins and by asking Him for salvation you can be spiritually washed clean to start anew following His guidance. Most denominations use a baptism of some form to ritually show this washing clean in preparation for a new life in Christ.

I don't think the ritual baptism is necessary. I think it's an earthly representation of what takes place on a spiritual level when you ask Christ to save you and guide you and attempt to dedicate yourself to a Christian life. Certainly there are many who believe in Him and live good, Christian lives following Christ's teachings who are not baptized because they are believers in secret all across the world, and I don't think they are any less worthy for not having undergone the earthly ritual.

reply to post by ketsuko

Is there one in particular you favor?

I meant the definition that goes with your earlier statement about how good works comes from being saved.
That becomes a little ambiguous if you don't specify under what definition of "being saved" it is operating.
If being saved is taking the Lordship of Jesus and asking for his guidance, then I would agree with your earlier statement that good works would be the result.

How should a person act according to Jesus and Paul?

According to Yahoshua and Paul a person should "act" like themselves.Neither were trying to "teach" ANYONE how to "act".That is at the core of what they "said" is being perverted.There are billions of interpretations .How can they possibly even be "teachings" on how people are supposed to "act".?

Charlie Manson was CONVINCED Jesus was telling him to start the war of Armageddon between whites and "blackey".That's an extreme example, however that is the reality,that there is very little consistency of "what" people "believe" of what those two said... especially Yahoshua.Most folks may as well believe he is a 4 headed green Martian(and I'm sure some do).

It's very simple ..because you have ZERO choice in how you will act because there is only "one" way to act...like yourself!...and many "acting" like themselves is believing by "studying" or reading(cursory reading) a "book" and interpreting what is said in it(mostly by what "other" people say) and doing that is "who" they are.

For example:

Some people believe EVERYTHING Paul wrote ,down to every crossed "T" .Others cherry pick and make excuses to fit their religious agenda.That is just "who" they are.The things they studied and read are just tools to "make their building".
Some of them believe they are "building" a stairway to heaven because of their "good " works.However the fact is it's all in vain.Nothing they are doing is "building" a stairway to heaven or building a relationship with the creator God.They are simply "being" themselves.

Neither Yahoshua nor Paul is "teaching" how to act OR to "know God.... or "get" to heaven ...(all of which are completely fallacious constructs.)There is no "place called heaven (and neither Yahoshua or Paul said there was) and there is no amount of "acting like" that can cause anyone to know the creator God or get to "heaven"... .it's only futility.

The "bible" may as well be written in Martian for what everyone "believes" it says. It is "futile" to try and figure it out.The majority was written in such a way that it is IMPOSSIBLE to make it harmonize (by any reasonable person).Yahoshua says things that "look" to be completely contrary!.Paul says things contrary to Yahoshua yet they are ALL supposed to be on the same page.Who do you listen to??....and thats my point.It doesn't matter.EVERYONE is going to "do" and believe what they are "going" to do and believe. The rub is believing that those contructs are what Yahoshua or Paul or THE CREATOR GOD ...WANT you to do and How to act..for all intents and purposes, that is INSANITY.

It is the nature of the religious carnal mind(the adversary) to "believe" what they are doing is "true".It is"impossible" to convince them otherwise.Everyone is "in" their world....they "believe" their Belief System.They can "do" nothing else.It's the built in process of life.I'm not condemning it.I am very aware of it.It will keep my distance (as much as possible) from some peoples' Belief Systems(BS).

No one is actually "doing" what Yahoshua or Paul or the creator God or what ANYONE else says.They are doing what "they" believe.There is no contradiction to Yahoshua and Paul or the creator God.The context is the contradiction.The scriptures are not "instructions" to be followed like a manual.Yahoshua clearly stated what they are ..a "testimony" of what "is".

He clearly stated to some religious Jews "you SEARCH the scriptures daily, THINKING that IN them you have life YET you fail to come to me, whom they testify of, that I would deliver you. "Religion isn't what "delivers" it is what mankind needs to be delivered from!

The Jews tried to "follow" the book" and in the process twisted it to their own religious agenda beyond recognition.The same thing is true today.The scriptures to the majority of the religious are meaningless words written in a book (the bible).It has no more true meaning that they can perceive than the "Martian Chronicles".

My suggestion to them is ..step away from the book...and go LIVE life. Life is NOT in that book.That is not its purpose.All it will do is cause religion, when that "doctrine" is believed...and that has been proved over and over for centuries and centuries.The book is not evil...nor are the words "in" it .The dilemma is ..that it is "babel"(confusion) to those that believe that there is "life" in it.

Of course they "can't believe that the bible isn't a set of rules or they wouldn't "believe IN" it.And of course the faithful will deny that .They will say they believe in Jesus or God or even Paul....however the fact is they believe in what THEY believe the book SAYS!..and the only thing they can believe is what THEY THINK the book says...it's a vicious cycle that can't be escaped BY THE BOOK!!

My point is neither Yahoshua(nor Jesus) nor Paul SAY how to live.If anyone thinks or/and believes that Yahoshua and Paul or the creator God are saying that....they would be wrong...very, very wrong.Every person is going to "act and do exactly in accordance to who "they" are.Most of it is literally "acting"....like "acting" holy.Some are so good at that deception they have other people believing they are holy...however NOTHING could be further from the TRUTH.

reply to post by Rex282


You can do whatever you want but that is not living by God's Law. Throughout The New Testament we see that the one law that actually Fulfills God's Law, is treating others as you would like to be treated (Matthew 7:12, Romans 13:8, Galatians 5:14, James 2:8).

You can live in selfishness without care for others but there are consequences for those actions. Your actions are either bearing "good" or "bad" fruit. For example, if you want to be selfish and rob a bank, then there will be consequences for those actions like needing to hide in fear of being caught.

We are told that God is Light and there is no darkness within him (1 John 1:5), and that the darkness works hidden in darkness and runs from light out of fear that their works will be exposed (John 3:20). The Light has nothing to fear so it shines for all to see. Jesus tells us to shine our light (Matthew 5:16).

You are right, The Bible is just a resource, this is why people read The Bible and come to different conclusions. Jesus warned that people read The Bible thinking that they have eternal life and yet they do not come to Him (John 5:39-40).

First and foremost, we need The Holy Spirit and THEN we can understand The Bible, so how do we know that we have The Holy Spirit? Not because we "think" so, or we "say" so, but because it inspires feelings of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control (Galatians 5:22) and when we read from THAT perspective, we are seeing through the eyes of The Holy Spirit and Truth reveals itself to us.

reply to post by Rex282

The dilemma is ..that it is "babel"(confusion) to those that believe that there is "life" in it.

The Gospel.
That's the news, or message, which is, by the way, words.
Exactly what is in the Bible.
And it claims that it is life (John 1:4).

It's pretty simple. If you believe the word of God, and that God is who He says He is, and believe on/in Jesus, the good works will follow.

Salvation comes by grace through faith, as it ALWAYS has, even back in the Old Testament. Time and time again, we see that faith in the Lord brings salvation.

I don't know what's so confusing about the whole "works vs faith" thing. If you believe in Jesus, and love the Lord, the works will follow.